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Old 05-21-2014, 04:48 PM   #1
LamboMan
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Default The true number of deaths in MOS

I was just going through this thread
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...=467371&page=3
and it just reminded of me of how much people have been bickering this last year over the whole 'destruction porn' and 'millions of deaths' controversy in MOS. It never ends. So I've decided to try and end it.

So to try and calculate the approximate number of deaths I've taken New York as an example for real world numbers >>

NY Population density per square mile = 27,000
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/census/pop_facts.shtml

1 sq mile = 640 acres
1 NY city block = 6.4 acres
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_s...block?#slide=5

Assuming, half a mile diameter World engine crater


from MOS Blu ray extras
http://io9.com/man-of-steel-concept-...ter-1460841543

Radius = 0.25 miles
Therefore, Area = 0.2 sq miles


Now, there are 40 city blocks in a 0.2 sq mile area


Population density in one city block = 270
So we get the number of people in danger zone = 40 X 270 = 10,800

Considering, Perry white was very much in the danger zone and still survived (along with a lot of other people), let us assume that half the people made a run for it before or at the same time as Perry, once they saw the POWER OF DUBSTEP being thumped onto the earth.

Thus, number of people killed = 10,800/2 = 5,400

Let us assume that the people killed by falling planes and loose missiles were within the final disaster zone. Therefore the total death toll does not increase much more than say by 600 more.

Total number of people killed by Zod's dubstep AND other exploooosions = 5400 + 500 = 6000 people.

Zack Snyder says 5000 people >> http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/11/09...r-zack-snyder/


I dunno, but seems legit.

Oh and the POWER OF DUBSTEP >> http://youtu.be/Sge5sUNJkiY?t=1m47s


PS: Looking at those pics of Metropolis and it's size in the movie, I'd dare to say that only 20 city blocks were destroyed, bringing down the number of people in the danger zone to 5,400. Therefore, 6000 seems like a maximum in any case.

Cheers to all!

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Old 05-21-2014, 06:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

I doubt Snyder and his effects team put this much thought into it but:


"assuming a half mile wide radius"

What if you assumed something larger? Or smaller? If you're trying to gauge the distance, pause the film with Henry (whose height is 6' 1) when his eyes are just below the half way point in the screen. Unless Metropolis is massively inclined or elevated, the horizon is three miles away (because at sea level the horizon is (in miles) the square root of one and a half times your height (in feet)).

If at any point the disaster area reaches the horizon, then the minimum radius would be 1.5 miles (assuming Superman would be standing on the extreme other end of the disaster area).

Also, population density and working population density are two different things. For example the City of London, only a square mile roughly in area with a population of 7,000. But over 300, 000 people work/commute to work there. Manhattan only has a living population of 1,626,159 but it has a working population of around 4 million. Also the population density is 27, 000 per sq km, not per sq mile.

Then bear in mind, the World Engine did not attack a residential area, but a business one. So even using your 0.2 sq miles area it would actually be closer to about 25, 000. How do you think 3, 000 people died on 9/11 if only 5, 000 die taking out 40 blocks?

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Old 05-21-2014, 07:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

It was written 27K per square mile on that page I've linked to.

Anyway, I guess you're right. I give up.

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Old 05-22-2014, 02:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

lol. seriously???
who cares??? its' a movie!!!

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Old 05-22-2014, 02:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

More people died in the opening 20 minutes when Krypton blew up

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Old 05-22-2014, 05:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

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Originally Posted by sf2 View Post
lol. seriously???
who cares??? its' a movie!!!
Then why are you on this website?

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Old 05-22-2014, 07:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

I want to know how many were killed in TDK and TDKR by the villains and their actions. Then I want to know why when Zod and his men kill innocents it's somehow laid at the feet of the hero but when Bane and the Joker kill innocents that Batman is not blamed (rightly so, I may add)?

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Old 05-22-2014, 02:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

I think Joker killed 12 people (if memory serves me correctly) in the film. Harvey killed 5, as stated- not seen.

In The Dark Knight Rises Bane kills around 10. His men must kill around 100 cops throughout the film as well as a few dozen people worthy for sentencing hearings.

Still considerably less. I don't think it's the actual death count that bothers people. It's the fact a significant area of Metropolis was destroyed. I reckon if there were a few terraformers around the globe that did the same overall damage as Man of Steel with the same death toll people would have been fine with it.

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Old 05-22-2014, 06:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

The Joker destroyed a hospital. Bane was the reason people were being walked out to thin ice. I think those numbers are low. And again, why is Superman being held responsible for any of the deaths that the villain committed? This is my bone of contention.

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Old 05-22-2014, 06:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

Joker blew up an empty hospital, the film makes it clear everyone is evacuated, and the only person unaccounted for was Harvey. I mentioned the sentencing hearings.

I don't think people hold Superman responsible. Just criticising it being over the top.

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Old 05-23-2014, 09:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

If at any point the disaster area reaches the horizon, then the minimum radius would be 1.5 miles (assuming Superman would be standing on the extreme other end of the disaster area).
It looked like thousands had died to me.

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Old 05-23-2014, 09:29 AM   #12
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

Quote:
Then bear in mind, the World Engine did not attack a residential area, but a business one. So even using your 0.2 sq miles area it would actually be closer to about 25, 000. How do you think 3, 000 people died on 9/11 if only 5, 000 die taking out 40 blocks?
Buildings were falling on people.

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Old 05-23-2014, 05:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
The Joker destroyed a hospital. Bane was the reason people were being walked out to thin ice. I think those numbers are low. And again, why is Superman being held responsible for any of the deaths that the villain committed? This is my bone of contention.
Exactly. It really doesn't matter how many people died, since it's just a movie. What does matter is which character is responsible. Anyone who's actually watched MOS knows Supes is not responsible, Zod is. Most people just couldn't handle that in a Superman movie there were so many deaths and destruction so they just turned their brains off and blame it all on Superman or Zack Snyder or whoever. I'm guessing these were the people who have never read a Superman fight in a comic or seen any animated media of Superman.

Also, most people outside of the US liked the movie (I'm from India) since most of them have never seen Superman The Movie and Reeves take on the character.

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Old 10-07-2014, 06:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

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Originally Posted by VenomsMom View Post
Buildings were falling on people.
Yeah like 10,000 buildings fell ... there was only ONE seen that fell when people was there (The other one when Zod slice it, it was empty and no people was there.. and if you see as Perry and the others managed to survive many others COULD... and the city was %#%# big if you SAW the movie.

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Old 10-07-2014, 07:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

People killed by evil Kryptonians and their dastardly terraforming machine
= 25,000 (ish) assuming some were probably able to get to safety.

People killed during battle between Zod and Superman ?
(The building that Zod cut in half with heat vision was empty)
Supes got thrown through a few buildings, but they didn't collapse.
Who can say, maybe 1000 ?


People saved by Superman destroying the world engine
7.125 billion - the above casualties. Some people don't like this analysis and say "But what about...." still, I think the Maths seem to stack up on Superman's side.

Superman is awesome, and he was particularly awesome in MOS.

I think the destruction was a deliberate choice by the film-makers, to show what would actually happen when godlike beings fight in an urban area. If Superman II was anywhere near as realistic (given that back then Superman could move the moon, and fly fast enough to travel through time) then all of New York should have been obliterated.
Not bagging Superman II, it still rocks. Just saying I think people over-criticize the destruction in MOS. Still just my opinion though.


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Old 10-10-2014, 09:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

So kill thousands to save billions. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or even the one.

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Old 10-10-2014, 09:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

I always assumed the issue was that Superman ended up killing Zod. So, had he been immediately ready to do that, theoretically, he could have saved a lot of lives.

Whereas Batman never kills anyone (except in the first movie). ...and the second movie. And possibly the third.

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Old 10-12-2014, 05:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

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Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
So kill thousands to save billions. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or even the one.
Dude, who did Superman kill ?
Superman killed one person to save billions, and that was Zod.

The rest of the casualties were caused by the terraforming (so not killed by Superman) , or Zod throwing Supes into buildings (so not killed by Superman either) . Watch the final fight scene, Superman fights Zod, over Metropolis, it's Zod who takes the fight down into the city.

Quote:
I always assumed the issue was that Superman ended up killing Zod. So, had he been immediately ready to do that, theoretically, he could have saved a lot of lives.

Whereas Batman never kills anyone (except in the first movie). ...and the second movie. And possibly the third.
Nice. Yeah Bats strafed a bunch of the Joker's goons in Batman '89, blew up one of the Penguin's goons in Batman Returns, I suppose he killed Two-face, who fell to his death trying to catch the coins in Batman Forever - in Batman and Robin...well there he killed our interest in Batman movies.

In Batman Begins he indirectly kills Ra's Al Ghul, in TDK he effectively kills Harvey Dent and in TDKR he kills the driver of the Bomb-truck (and Talia).
But we don't give him any **** about it because...well because he's Batman !


I'm not convinced Superman killed Zod and co in Superman II ( I think there's a director's cut with a scene with them being taken away by the cops at the end ).

If you want to see what Superman really should have done check out this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjSNLmb0Ndw

But then again, since it was his first day on the job as Superman, we can cut him some slack.

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Old 10-12-2014, 08:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

Four different issues here:

1. Destruction porn - the amount of screen-time spent on explosions and crumbling buildings

It was fine by me.

2. The number of deaths / amount of damage caused (aka the giant crater)

Don't see the big deal. Sometimes the bad guys do bad things. The Death Star blew up Alderan after all. The climax of GotG (and STID) involved an enormous ship crashing into the city.

3. Number of deaths / amount of destruction caused by the hero

First experience. Fine by me. The silo, the 7-11, the iHop roof in Smallville - I thought most of it was handled well, and played for laughs in a way (Reminds me of Bruce sloppily driving over cop cars). I don't think anyone had a problem at this point. However, come the imagery of the crater and the Metropolis fight, I think people link the two together and now have a problem with Supes apparently destroying Smallville and Metropolis, even though Supes ironically barely caused any damage this time, save some windows, which is no more damage caused by any hero in any superhero movie.

4. The hero killing the villain

Fine by me. Fit with the themes of the movie, nor do I think killing mass-murdering psychopaths is this immoral act that makes one a 'murderer' instead of a hero (especially considering The Avengers kill hundreds of Chitauri, mercenaries, etc). I just wish they didn't end that scene on a downer, but that's a different matter.


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Old 10-25-2014, 02:45 AM   #20
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

death toll is not so much the issue as is the expectations people had.. they wanted Supes to fight and punch things while simultaneously saving kittens and patting citizens on the head..... his hoping over the oil tanker basically paints him as uncaring for the people hes supposedly trying to protect...

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Old 11-02-2014, 07:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

^^ like an omnipresent robot... which of course won't happen again and I'm glad they made him RELATABLE... and you are talking as if Superman directed crushed on the oil tanker, It was an accident while he was taking out Zod of his mom, again he had no experience fighting this time he didn't born knowing everything (and Snyder said people weren't there... and I didn't see people there) there are %#"$" containers not factories
But yeah he didn't care to the doomed people that was inside the oil rig.. They say what they only want to say and while Supes saving the guy in the chopper while fighting Nam-ek then he was hitted, one moment of not focusing and those guys literally squash you, but yeah they don't "see" that... They only see what they want.

Superman is not a robot that can do everything at the time... I wonder if those fans really anknowledge the character...

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Last edited by John-An; 11-02-2014 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 11-02-2014, 07:49 PM   #22
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Default Re: The true number of deaths in MOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
Four different issues here:

1. Destruction porn - the amount of screen-time spent on explosions and crumbling buildings

It was fine by me.

2. The number of deaths / amount of damage caused (aka the giant crater)

Don't see the big deal. Sometimes the bad guys do bad things. The Death Star blew up Alderan after all. The climax of GotG (and STID) involved an enormous ship crashing into the city.

3. Number of deaths / amount of destruction caused by the hero

First experience. Fine by me. The silo, the 7-11, the iHop roof in Smallville - I thought most of it was handled well, and played for laughs in a way (Reminds me of Bruce sloppily driving over cop cars). I don't think anyone had a problem at this point. However, come the imagery of the crater and the Metropolis fight, I think people link the two together and now have a problem with Supes apparently destroying Smallville and Metropolis, even though Supes ironically barely caused any damage this time, save some windows, which is no more damage caused by any hero in any superhero movie.

4. The hero killing the villain

Fine by me. Fit with the themes of the movie, nor do I think killing mass-murdering psychopaths is this immoral act that makes one a 'murderer' instead of a hero (especially considering The Avengers kill hundreds of Chitauri, mercenaries, etc). I just wish they didn't end that scene on a downer, but that's a different matter.
The final was dramatic, depends on tastes, it's how I'd imagine Superman would react and I really appreciate the emotion and how you feel his pain.

And yeah it's really silly to blame Superman for the actions of Zod, the World Engine I can really ask myself if those people saw the movie, are just trolling just because they want to attack DC, or they don't have a %#%#ing idea of what they are talking about.

And then they see the destruction on the AoU trailer and they love it not to mention that at least for me don't buy that hundreds of chitauri can only cause car explosions and road surface, eventhought of the big organic ships that crashed buildings, the explosions and there were no casualties, yeah I believe them and only to add that TA threat was no near as dangerous as MOS one. but

What you're describing my friend is called hyperbole and bias, its marvel then no matter if there were even more casualties without people noticing like in GOTG the movie was funny and yeah let's not talk about

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Last edited by John-An; 11-02-2014 at 10:29 PM.
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