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Old 10-07-2011, 08:20 AM   #626
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie View Post
Re-posting the same message multiple times about how Jon Hamm should have been cast (and including pictures of him as "proof") long after Russell Crowe had secured the role (and specifically in the thread dedicated to him and his being cast) would make one a troll.

You make it sound like Jon Hamm was mentioned 50 times.

I only had two posts on this issue. DONE.

Hardly trolling....which again is verrrry subjective here. One man's opinion (without insulting anybody) should not be considered trolling.
So what if Crowe is the locked in the choice?? And what was wrong with posting a Hamm photo next to the cartoon Jor-el. He was spot on. Big deal. How did that hurt anybody?

What is wrong with expressing what you wish should have happened? How is that so wrong? It's a wish list type of discussion....

Are Crowe fans somehow "insulted" that you don't like Crowe? That's just silly, if that's the case.

Fans always discuss this type of stuff. People didnt like Keaton as Batman....some did! Some wished another actor was chosen. Some were happy with it.

This message board seems to be pretty intolerant. You gotta walk on egg shells, it seems. Interesting.

"sigh"

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Old 10-07-2011, 08:23 AM   #627
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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It was labeled a dress by yahoo news-just an example of what I have maintained: regardless of what they do, the mainstream media will always mock comics, superheroes and superhero films.

I feel that the original creators intentions should be the very first consideration when these movies are made. I think that they should be as close to the source material as possible, and with today's effects, they can be as faithful as they wish to be. I don't buy that the classic Superman is outdated, or will not appeal to today's audiences, and just as importantly
I feel it would make for a more unique and better movie.

Disagree all you want, but that is my position, I am consistent with it and I don't hold that point of view just because I want to be an ass.
So, when making a film adaptation of a comic, they should only consider the original material, or only the most popular? Also, why aren't the film makers allowed to come up with their own design? You seem to be against redesigns in general. To me, that mindset is unhealthy for any comic fan.

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Old 10-07-2011, 08:29 AM   #628
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
It was labeled a dress by yahoo news-just an example of what I have maintained: regardless of what they do, the mainstream media will always mock comics, superheroes and superhero films.

I feel that the original creators intentions should be the very first consideration when these movies are made. I think that they should be as close to the source material as possible, and with today's effects, they can be as faithful as they wish to be. I don't buy that the classic Superman is outdated, or will not appeal to today's audiences, and just as importantly
I feel it would make for a more unique and better movie.

Disagree all you want, but that is my position, I am consistent with it and I don't hold that point of view just because I want to be an ass.

I agree with you totally!

Perfect example was the latest Star Trek movie. Look at the costumes. They took it back to the original series from the 60's! Even the mini skirts.... The movie was a smash hit! Yes...they made some story changes. But the feel was old skool!! And it worked.

These senior citizen looking Jor-els, the gaudy costumes, everything is "crystal" (hopefully that's gone), ......

Some times the original source material works!

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Old 10-07-2011, 08:35 AM   #629
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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So, when making a film adaptation of a comic, they should only consider the original material, or only the most popular? Also, why aren't the film makers allowed to come up with their own design? You seem to be against redesigns in general. To me, that mindset is unhealthy for any comic fan.

I don't think that's what he's saying. Creative license is expected. But when things are altered to such a degree that it looks too unfamiliar, that rubs some the wrong way. Like Superman being a "Baby-Daddy" in Singer's movie.

The constant depiction of Krypton as an ice planet.

Or the small "S" shield on that costume...or the lack of use of any villains besides Luthor or Zod.

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Old 10-07-2011, 08:50 AM   #630
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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Originally Posted by Shazam View Post
You make it sound like Jon Hamm was mentioned 50 times.

I only had two posts on this issue. DONE.

Hardly trolling....which again is verrrry subjective here. One man's opinion (without insulting anybody) should not be considered trolling.
So what if Crowe is the locked in the choice?? And what was wrong with posting a Hamm photo next to the cartoon Jor-el. He was spot on. Big deal. How did that hurt anybody?

What is wrong with expressing what you wish should have happened? How is that so wrong? It's a wish list type of discussion....

Are Crowe fans somehow "insulted" that you don't like Crowe? That's just silly, if that's the case.

Fans always discuss this type of stuff. People didnt like Keaton as Batman....some did! Some wished another actor was chosen. Some were happy with it.

This message board seems to be pretty intolerant. You gotta walk on egg shells, it seems. Interesting.

"sigh"
One man's opinion is trolling when that man is a staff member whose job is to enforce the rules of this board.

What you are doing is clearly trolling. Going into threads devoted to an actor, posting a bunch of pictures of another actor saying how much better they would be, and then fanning the flames in an attempt to create arguments falls under what Superhero Hype staff considers trolling. And unfortunately for you....it is our opinion that matters. So, I strongly suggest you knock it off, before it becomes our opinion that you have no place on this board.

P.S. You're getting pretty close to insubordination as well. So, I strongly suggest you don't even bother replying to this post or even posting in this thread (or any casting thread as I know that you tried to cause the same trouble in the Amy Adams thread) again.

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Old 10-07-2011, 09:32 AM   #631
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
It was labeled a dress by yahoo news-just an example of what I have maintained: regardless of what they do, the mainstream media will always mock comics, superheroes and superhero films.

I feel that the original creators intentions should be the very first consideration when these movies are made. I think that they should be as close to the source material as possible, and with today's effects, they can be as faithful as they wish to be. I don't buy that the classic Superman is outdated, or will not appeal to today's audiences, and just as importantly
I feel it would make for a more unique and better movie.

Disagree all you want, but that is my position, I am consistent with it and I don't hold that point of view just because I want to be an ass.
As I've said before, I don't think anybody has a problem with you expressing love for your favourite interpretations.

It's just the sometimes insensitive way you express your disdain for others that bothers me.

And yes, yahoo news called it a dress. But to go all school yard on you, if yahoo news told you to jump off a cliff, would you? No. You don't have to use an obviously aggrivating word in your posts just cause someone else did.

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Old 10-07-2011, 10:50 AM   #632
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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I agree with you totally!

Perfect example was the latest Star Trek movie. Look at the costumes. They took it back to the original series from the 60's! Even the mini skirts.... The movie was a smash hit! Yes...they made some story changes. But the feel was old skool!! And it worked.

These senior citizen looking Jor-els, the gaudy costumes, everything is "crystal" (hopefully that's gone), ......

Some times the original source material works!
The funny thing is how you gratuitously link 'original design costumes' and 'smash hit.'

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Old 10-07-2011, 11:13 AM   #633
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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One man's opinion is trolling when that man is a staff member whose job is to enforce the rules of this board.

What you are doing is clearly trolling. Going into threads devoted to an actor, posting a bunch of pictures of another actor saying how much better they would be, and then fanning the flames in an attempt to create arguments falls under what Superhero Hype staff considers trolling. And unfortunately for you....it is our opinion that matters. So, I strongly suggest you knock it off, before it becomes our opinion that you have no place on this board.

P.S. You're getting pretty close to insubordination as well. So, I strongly suggest you don't even bother replying to this post or even posting in this thread (or any casting thread as I know that you tried to cause the same trouble in the Amy Adams thread) again.
When a mod says "Do yourself a favor and don't reply to this post" to someone, that applies for everyone else too. Consider this a warning for those who already went ahead and piped in with their $.02 on the matter.

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Old 10-07-2011, 11:38 AM   #634
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

Hamm should play the next Batman. Not Jor-El. imo.

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Old 10-07-2011, 04:11 PM   #635
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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So, when making a film adaptation of a comic, they should only consider the original material, or only the most popular? Also, why aren't the film makers allowed to come up with their own design? You seem to be against redesigns in general. To me, that mindset is unhealthy for any comic fan.
All adaptations should be done with the intentions of the characters creators and of their most iconic interpretations in mind. With Superman, that is the Siegel and Shuster original and the Silver/Bronze Age versions that were a direct evolution of it. You see Silver Age Krypton, it is a clear evolution from the Golden Age Krypton. You see the roots from Alex Raymond and pulp science fiction in it. Later versions, from the Crystal Krypton to Byrne's version, have nothing in common with the original version. So I don't think the designs for Jor-El as an example HAVE to be the exact same as the Silver Age (although that would be my preference), but they SHOULD be cut from the same cloth.

The uniforms from the recent Star Trek are a great example. A classic updated. That's what I want for Superman. And they were bright and colorful too. Not every movie has to have this dingy color palette and tone. Look at how bright and colorful Avatar is. Superman should be bright and colorful too.

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Old 10-07-2011, 04:39 PM   #636
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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All adaptations should be done with the intentions of the characters creators and of their most iconic interpretations in mind. With Superman, that is the Siegel and Shuster original and the Silver/Bronze Age versions that were a direct evolution of it. You see Silver Age Krypton, it is a clear evolution from the Golden Age Krypton. You see the roots from Alex Raymond and pulp science fiction in it. Later versions, from the Crystal Krypton to Byrne's version, have nothing in common with the original version. So I don't think the designs for Jor-El as an example HAVE to be the exact same as the Silver Age (although that would be my preference), but they SHOULD be cut from the same cloth.

The uniforms from the recent Star Trek are a great example. A classic updated. That's what I want for Superman. And they were bright and colorful too. Not every movie has to have this dingy color palette and tone. Look at how bright and colorful Avatar is. Superman should be bright and colorful too.
So you are against complete redesigns. Any redesign should reflect what some deem the most iconic version of that character, and any artist wanting to but their own new spin on things, shouldn't. That about right?

What I'm failing to understand is what you and others have against changes being made to characters so that they fit an artist's vision. If you dislike what their doing, and love a certain version, stick with that.

I, personally don't keep such a tight attachment to a character, that I would get all bent out of shape over costume changes.

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Old 10-07-2011, 07:01 PM   #637
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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Old 10-07-2011, 08:21 PM   #638
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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So you are against complete redesigns. Any redesign should reflect what some deem the most iconic version of that character, and any artist wanting to but their own new spin on things, shouldn't. That about right?

What I'm failing to understand is what you and others have against changes being made to characters so that they fit an artist's vision. If you dislike what their doing, and love a certain version, stick with that.

I, personally don't keep such a tight attachment to a character, that I would get all bent out of shape over costume changes.
I do not want to see new characters created and then the Superman label stuck on them as a way to sell it. I want the characters to be true to what they were intended to be. Should Gandalf be dressed in a military suit with guns instead of a staff? Of course not. I'm okay with a new design as long as it is from the same influences as the classic. The Donner Krypton sucked to me because it looked nothing like the comic book Krypton or it's influences. And they easily COULD have gotten that look, as the Flash Gordon movie showed when it came out a couple of years later.

The DCnU Jor-El costume is a great example:



2011 costume, but it is easy to see how it is evolved from this:



And this:


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Old 10-07-2011, 08:58 PM   #639
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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I, personally don't keep such a tight attachment to a character, that I would get all bent out of shape over costume changes.
There we differ. Superman is one of my earliest childhood memories. I'd sit on my dad's knee and watch George Reeves on TV. My folks would buy me a Superman comic when they'd been out for a Saturday night and my nana and granda looked after me.

For many of us Superman is an awful lot more than just another fairy tale man wearing a silly suit.

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Old 10-07-2011, 10:10 PM   #640
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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There we differ. Superman is one of my earliest childhood memories. I'd sit on my dad's knee and watch George Reeves on TV. My folks would buy me a Superman comic when they'd been out for a Saturday night and my nana and granda looked after me.

For many of us Superman is an awful lot more than just another fairy tale man wearing a silly suit.
Don't tell me you're the guy that got plastic surgery to look like Superman.

As much as I like Superman, he's still just a fictional character to me. I guess like all mythologies, there are those who make it a religion.

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Old 10-08-2011, 06:03 AM   #641
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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I do not want to see new characters created and then the Superman label stuck on them as a way to sell it. I want the characters to be true to what they were intended to be. Should Gandalf be dressed in a military suit with guns instead of a staff? Of course not. I'm okay with a new design as long as it is from the same influences as the classic. The Donner Krypton sucked to me because it looked nothing like the comic book Krypton or it's influences. And they easily COULD have gotten that look, as the Flash Gordon movie showed when it came out a couple of years later.

You don't think then that it is possible for someone (lets say the people creating this movie, hypothetically) to 1-up the character of Superman that the creators came up with? And what if they did? What if the Superman movie turns out to be different but much better than anything the creators could have ever dreamed of? Is it okay then for them to have "the Superman label stuck on them"?

And don't you think, that if the creators were alive and well now, that they would have probably have done away with all of those more fantastical elements from the Golden Age, (golden giant keys, bright colors, genius robot-inventing Superman in the fortress) and made the character more serious, and modern? If they were alive, it is very possible that they would be doing similar stories to the ones that you have " the Superman label stuck on them". Then what? Would it be okay for them to do it too, or is change okay then if the creators make the change?

And what if the creators were alive and said, "you know, it makes more sense that the Clark Kent character we see in the farm is the real person", then what? Is that okay since the creators would done it?

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Old 10-08-2011, 06:11 AM   #642
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
I do not want to see new characters created and then the Superman label stuck on them as a way to sell it. I want the characters to be true to what they were intended to be. Should Gandalf be dressed in a military suit with guns instead of a staff? Of course not. I'm okay with a new design as long as it is from the same influences as the classic. The Donner Krypton sucked to me because it looked nothing like the comic book Krypton or it's influences. And they easily COULD have gotten that look, as the Flash Gordon movie showed when it came out a couple of years later.

The DCnU Jor-El costume is a great example:



2011 costume, but it is easy to see how it is evolved from this:



And this:

I dunno what's up with my brain today... but screw it, I absolutely agree with you! That DCNU design could have been easily tweaked to work.

And for the record, the more I look at that pic, the more I don't like the metal shoulder pads. Without them it would look much much better, and much less like medieval armour.

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Old 10-08-2011, 08:20 AM   #643
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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I agree with you totally!

Perfect example was the latest Star Trek movie. Look at the costumes. They took it back to the original series from the 60's! Even the mini skirts.... The movie was a smash hit! Yes...they made some story changes. But the feel was old skool!! And it worked.

These senior citizen looking Jor-els, the gaudy costumes, everything is "crystal" (hopefully that's gone), ......

Some times the original source material works!
The people at Starfleet Academy don't wear their underwear on the outside. That's not a knock at Supe's costume, I love the classic costume, but I don't think Star Trek is a fair example here.

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Old 10-08-2011, 08:59 AM   #644
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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It's just the sometimes insensitive way you express your disdain for others that bothers me.
Exactly right. 1) why is this so difficult a concept to convey and 2) why have the mods done NOTHING. Many of us have been unnecessarily insulted by this guy more than once.

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Old 10-08-2011, 09:02 AM   #645
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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There we differ. Superman is one of my earliest childhood memories. I'd sit on my dad's knee and watch George Reeves on TV. My folks would buy me a Superman comic when they'd been out for a Saturday night and my nana and granda looked after me.

For many of us Superman is an awful lot more than just another fairy tale man wearing a silly suit.
But it IS just a fairy tale man wearing a silly suit.

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Old 10-08-2011, 09:17 AM   #646
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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You don't think then that it is possible for someone (lets say the people creating this movie, hypothetically) to 1-up the character of Superman that the creators came up with? And what if they did? What if the Superman movie turns out to be different but much better than anything the creators could have ever dreamed of? Is it okay then for them to have "the Superman label stuck on them"?
The possibility that Superman can be improved upon is exactly what Kuro can't, or won't, accept.

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Exactly right. 1) why is this so difficult a concept to convey and 2) why have the mods done NOTHING. Many of us have been unnecessarily insulted by this guy more than once.
He's hiding behind the "it's just my opinion" excuse now but he has a consistent history of scorn and veiled insults for those who don't share his very specific preferences.

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Old 10-08-2011, 10:14 AM   #647
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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I do not want to see new characters created and then the Superman label stuck on them as a way to sell it. I want the characters to be true to what they were intended to be. Should Gandalf be dressed in a military suit with guns instead of a staff? Of course not. I'm okay with a new design as long as it is from the same influences as the classic. The Donner Krypton sucked to me because it looked nothing like the comic book Krypton or it's influences. And they easily COULD have gotten that look, as the Flash Gordon movie showed when it came out a couple of years later.
The LOTR analogy doesn't work. First of all no one is saying change itself is good, like you are claiming change itself is bad. So giving Gandalf guns would obviously be bad, it's so obvious as giving Superman guns would be bad too. Exaggerating things is always a bad argument imo.

Second of all. LOTR is a totally different kind of mythos than Superman. Cause there is one book from one author and that's it. It's not meant to be rewritten. Doesn't mean you can't change certain details, like Jackson did in is films. But it is more sensitive to such change.

While comic-book characters and and a mythos like Superman have always been changed even from the first comics and presented in several different universes. That's why we have multiverses and different earths. And when being presented in different medias the changes have been even more prominent. As the different creators have wanted to put their own artistic vision on it and the stories themselves have been more self-contained than continuing a certain canon. This also applies to one-shot graphic novels or limited series. I'm a big fan of such things. Using characters and a mythos to tell a unique story with it's own both written and visual themes.

Donner shows a totally different universe than let's say Birthright. But I love them both because I think they are great in their own ways, not because of how much they differ from something than not.

There isn't a single truth to the Superman mythos to me. Just different visions. Now if you don't like it cause it doesn't appeal to you artistically, story-wise or visually then fine. For example I myself doesn't really like what I see of Jor-El so far either, but it's not because of how different it is from the original incarnations, it's because it doesn't visually appeal to me (yet).

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Old 10-08-2011, 05:42 PM   #648
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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You don't think then that it is possible for someone (lets say the people creating this movie, hypothetically) to 1-up the character of Superman that the creators came up with? And what if they did? What if the Superman movie turns out to be different but much better than anything the creators could have ever dreamed of? Is it okay then for them to have "the Superman label stuck on them"?

And don't you think, that if the creators were alive and well now, that they would have probably have done away with all of those more fantastical elements from the Golden Age, (golden giant keys, bright colors, genius robot-inventing Superman in the fortress) and made the character more serious, and modern? If they were alive, it is very possible that they would be doing similar stories to the ones that you have " the Superman label stuck on them". Then what? Would it be okay for them to do it too, or is change okay then if the creators make the change?

And what if the creators were alive and said, "you know, it makes more sense that the Clark Kent character we see in the farm is the real person", then what? Is that okay since the creators would done it?
There is no way to say exactly WHAT they would do if they were around today, as all the circumstances are different. So all we know is what they did do, and I want Superman to be a recognizable evolution from the principles he was founded on. That's what I want for all characters. Bond should reflect the intentions of Ian Fleming (the current movies with Daniel Craig do this well). One should be able to tell the Finger/Kane roots in Batman (again, the current comics and movies do this well). And Superman should reflect the input of Siegel and Shuster, along with the work done by Curt Swan and Mort Weisinger. That means sci-fi Flash Gordon Krypton, not a Krypton that has costumes that look like they wondered in from LOTR or GOT. Just like Gandalf should not wear a Starfleet uniform and carry a phaser, Jor-El should not look like he just came home from a D&D convention.

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Old 10-08-2011, 05:55 PM   #649
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I don't think that's what he's saying. Creative license is expected. But when things are altered to such a degree that it looks too unfamiliar, that rubs some the wrong way. Like Superman being a "Baby-Daddy" in Singer's movie.

The constant depiction of Krypton as an ice planet.

Or the small "S" shield on that costume...or the lack of use of any villains besides Luthor or Zod.
Agreed on some, especially the baby-daddy part. He's suppose to be a boy scout farmboy, not a love-em and leave-em ubermensch.

Jor-el's new costume makes me think they actually are straying more towards the comics. I mean, Jor-el is actually wearing something colorful and it gives off the vibe of a combination of his post-Crisis suit and some of the comics' new, Donner-inspired looks. The S-Shield is much larger on the Superman suit, he has a bigger, um, neck-hole or whatever, and the blue is a nice, dark shade. Faora's costume look's like a combination of the Polkistan Faora and the Jim Lee General Zod. I also have a feeling that the Krypton sets will be much more unique than the decades of ice-planet we've gotten.

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Old 10-08-2011, 09:39 PM   #650
Superman_200
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Default Re: Russell Crowe in talks to play Jor-El

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Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
There is no way to say exactly WHAT they would do if they were around today, as all the circumstances are different. So all we know is what they did do, and I want Superman to be a recognizable evolution from the principles he was founded on. That's what I want for all characters. Bond should reflect the intentions of Ian Fleming (the current movies with Daniel Craig do this well). One should be able to tell the Finger/Kane roots in Batman (again, the current comics and movies do this well). And Superman should reflect the input of Siegel and Shuster, along with the work done by Curt Swan and Mort Weisinger. That means sci-fi Flash Gordon Krypton, not a Krypton that has costumes that look like they wondered in from LOTR or GOT. Just like Gandalf should not wear a Starfleet uniform and carry a phaser, Jor-El should not look like he just came home from a D&D convention.
I know, but what I am saying is, hypothetically, what if the creators took Superman in the direction he has gone now? Would you still not like the new direction or would you like it just because that is what the creators want?

And my main question was, what if the story then turns out to be better? Isn't that better? What if the story in the movie is nothing like in the comics but is much better? Isn't that going to be better or it should be done (even if it is better) because it is not what the creators had the brains to come up with?

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