The Official Batman Forever Thread - Part 2

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Both are good but I prefer the Bale approach. I like connection with the main character more by delving into the character. Batman's got a lot of layers. I like seeing them. I like getting inside Batman's head to see what makes him tick.

For all it's faults, Batman Forever did some of that.

This is why I really dont have a preference above any of the versions. When I watch Burton's movies that feel and music and Batman as a Phantom of the Opera is just so captivating I say "damn, this is IT". Then when I watch Begins and TDK later on and with that great delicate piano music during emotional moments and powerful score during dramatic action events, we go through Bruce's drama , then triumphant return then struggle I think "damn, what a great drama and Batman at the same time, no, this is IT". Then when I watch Burton's movies I changed my mind and it goes in circles until I finally realized I dont have a preference and thrye both so much different. Its like Spicy buffalo wings and Nutella chocolate. I love both but both are different types of food that I enjoy in different times of the day. I cant decide for prefering one over another

The beauty of it is that I can love both and dont have to limit myself to ultimatums. Theres place for both

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I was gonna say guys I thought this was a BF related thread.

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by GothamAlleys

This is why I really dont have a preference above any of the versions. When I watch Burton's movies that feel and music and Batman as a Phantom of the Opera is just so captivating I say "damn, this is IT". Then when I watch Begins and TDK later on and with that great delicate piano music during emotional moments and powerful score during dramatic action events, we go through Bruce's drama , then triumphant return then struggle I think "damn, what a great drama and Batman at the same time, no, this is IT". Then when I watch Burton's movies I changed my mind and it goes in circles until I finally realized I dont have a preference and thrye both so much different. Its like Spicy buffalo wings and Nutella chocolate. I love both but both are different types of food that I enjoy in different times of the day. I cant decide for prefering one over another

The beauty of it is that I can love both and dont have to limit myself to ultimatums. Theres place for both

Agreed!

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by GothamAlleys

I connect with both Waynes on different levels. Keaton is interesting, seem like a next door quirky and very likeable guy but then when hes alone hes bordeline scary. Bale in Begins takes me on a emotional journey and I really feel for him, I really cheer him and he channels his emotions well imo

That's an interesting way to put it. I have never felt that way because I don't think Bale is the calibre of actor (just my opinion) as Keaton is... In other words, to pull off what you described? I don't think he's done that. I don't feel for him because he doesn't seem immersed in the role. He's always been boring to me, as Batman & Bruce Wayne.

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by Ponyboy

That's an interesting way to put it. I have never felt that way because I don't think Bale is the calibre of actor (just my opinion) as Keaton is... In other words, to pull off what you described? I don't think he's done that. I don't feel for him because he doesn't seem immersed in the role. He's always been boring to me, as Batman & Bruce Wayne.

I completely disagree.

[AnneFan]

Does anybody have this yet? If so, what are your impressions?

[Mister Meddle]

I downloaded it. I think it's pretty good. It's cool to listen to the original score that was never before released on CD. Not as good as Elfman's score but it's pretty good.

[A Necessary Evil]

Originally Posted by Cain

Tell me about it; it's been almost 3 years already. What gives LLR?!?

I never was able to get the Phantasm and '66 TV show ones though so that sale for each at $10 sounds pretty sweet and right up my alley. I think I'll go do that now. I've always wanted the BF one too but it came at the wrong time cause I don't have the disposable cash to just go ahead and buy it at it's full price right now. I'm gonna have to wait a couple of months.

Rights issues. MV, from LLLR wants any and all batman music released. Problem is watertower, WB's music department, doesn't seem to want it out there...for some reason.


Also, I love the BF score. Nice to finally have the final confrontation music (BATTLE....SHIP!)

[AnneFan]

Goldenthal switched a few tracks out of order, and I'm looking for the film sequencing. Does anybody have it?

[A Necessary Evil]

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

(Disc-Track -- Title -- Running time)

01-01 Main Title 1:54
01-02 Batmobile / Introducing Two-Face 1:39
02-15 Chase Blanc 1:23
01-03 Thug Fight :55
01-14 Have a Safe Flight / Through the Eye 5:57
01-05 Nygma’s Cubicle / Bat-Signal 3:22
01-06 Capsule 1:07
01-07 Rooftop Seduction / Roof Plunge 2:05
01-08 Nygma After Hours / Brain Drain / You Are Terminated 4:52
01-09 Suicide / First Riddle / Second Riddle Delivered 4:14
01-10 Dream Doll 2:23
01-12 Circus Opening / The Flying Graysons / Death Drop 3:41 (Insert track 18, disc 2 (1:35-end) at 0:56 as an overlay)
01-11 Big Top Bomb 4:19
01-13 Flashback / Signal / Robin’s Lament 4:00
01-04 Obligatory Car Chase 2:40
01-15 Nygma’s Apartment / Two-Face’s Lair / Riddler’s Entrance / Schizoid Stomp / Brain Drain Expo / Heist Montage 6:04
01-16 Laundry Room Stunt :25
01-17 More Heists / Third Riddle / Nosy Robin 1:06
01-18 Building Nygmatech / Family of Zombies 1:29
01-19 Master Dick :56
01-20 Memories Repressed / Love 2:34
01-21 Alley Rumble / Screen Kiss 1:38
01-22 Batcave / Nygmatech Tango / Public Demo 4:39
01-23 Nygma & Chase Dance 1:16
01-24 Two-Face’s Entrance / Batman’s Entrance 2:50
01-25 Gas Trap / Batman Phoenix 2:30
01-26 Gratitude Problem 1:33
01-27 Go To Chase 2:16
01-28 Batcave Closeout / Dick Leaves Wayne Manor 1:24
01-29 Happy Halloween / The Bat / Love Scene / Twick Or Tweat / Seize and Capture 7:08
01-30 Riddles Solved / Partners/Battleship 6:21
01-31 Scuba Fight / Claw Island / Emperor of Madness 5:10
01-32 Fun And Games 3:07
01-33 Batterdämmerung 1:20
01-34 Two-Face’s Demise 1:47
01-35 Bat Descent / Arkham Asylum 1:00
01-36 Wet Screen Kiss / March On! 1:22

[AnneFan]

^ Thanks. I'll get that sorted out soon.

[OutRiddled]

Originally Posted by Mister Meddle

I downloaded it. I think it's pretty good. It's cool to listen to the original score that was never before released on CD. Not as good as Elfman's score but it's pretty good.

Agree. Actually, I used to own the original soundtrack CD, that came out back in 1995. I highly enjoy listening to the BF score, and I even prefer it to Howard Zimmer's scores for BB/TDK. It's just a score that instantly makes me thinks of the craziness of that movie.

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2014

I completely disagree.

That's okay! Sometimes fandom can blind people to the facts.

[AnneFan]

Alright, I’ve given the expanded BF score a few listens through. My impressions? Well, while I prefer Elfman and Zimmer, this is passable. I really enjoy Chase’s nourish theme, which stands out against the manic energy. It has that touch of melancholy smoothness about it. The new Batman theme is simple but quite nice when it pops up. Overall, in my book Goldenthal achieves what he set out to do. Although it does become quite same-y, the music suits the screen.

[A.Stabelli]

I've never liked Goldenthal's score for BF. His Batman theme doesn't scream "Batman" to me like Elfman's theme does. His Riddler theme sounds like something from a bad b-movie from the 50's. It's just a generic score. Everything about Elfman's score felt like Batman.

[Mister Meddle]

I always liked the Batman theme from Batman Forever. It's one one of the few songs from the BF score that I like. To me the 1989 Batman theme will always be the definitive Batman theme song. Just like the theme from the Superman movie will always be considered as the official Superman theme song.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Mister Meddle

To me the 1989 Batman theme will always be the definitive Batman theme song. Just like the theme from the Superman movie will always be considered as the official Superman theme song.

Yeah I have to agree with this sentiment. Call it nostalgia if you want cause in truth that is part of it. It's difficult for someone like me who grew up watching the Burton movies and BTAS since it's premiere to shake that song off. I mean it has so much sentimental value to me that piece of music.

Even when waiting on the line for Batman: The Ride at great adventure every summer; there it was to liven my spirits. It just screams Batman the same way the Williams theme screams Superman. All due respect to Hans Zimmer and whoever ends up doing Man of Steel but it just seems like those older themes will forever be the most iconic for their respective characters and not their contemporary ones. Even the recent Lego Batman video game couldn't help but use that Elfman theme. It's like psychologically embedded in people's brains when they hear those opening notes; "this is Batman "

I like the BF score BTW. I think my most favorite piece of music is the one that plays during those Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne at the batcave moments. There's a recurring theme there that is really dark yet still very jovial and sonically suits that bronze age Batman tone perfectly.

[Lead Cenobite]

Originally Posted by A.Stabelli

I've never liked Goldenthal's score for BF. His Batman theme doesn't scream "Batman" to me like Elfman's theme does. His Riddler theme sounds like something from a bad b-movie from the 50's. It's just a generic score. Everything about Elfman's score felt like Batman.

It's decent, but I much prefer Elfman. I really wish changing directors and actors didn't mean having to change nearly EVERYTHING.. I mean, couldn't they have kept the original Batmobile and Elfman theme at the very least?

[circa1981]

I could have sworn this thread was about Forever, not the other films, but never mind that. While Burton's films will always be the best to me, Forever is a close second. I can't stand Nolan's take, it's just not in any way Batman to me. I probably could enjoy his films if they weren't ' Batman films. Forever, for it's definite flaws, IS a good Batman movie to me. Kilmer had the psychology and the haunting pain of being Batman, something I never got from Bale. As for Jone's two face, most of his scenes had at least some malevolent moments in them. Carry, outside of his impression of himself, was a good Riddler, narcissistic and obsessive.
And I prefer the neon to plain Jane Chicago.

[OutRiddled]

I think I was the perfect age to see it in 1995 - 13 years old and I have to credit BF for making me a huge Batman fan. If you don't have the nostalgia then I can why people would hate it compared to the Nolan films. I can still watch it today and be entertained. And that's the point - entertaining - a fun visual ride that doesn't take itself too seriously, something Hollywood cannot seem to do anymore.

[Fudgie]

It's the only Batman movie out of the old franchise that I think did any justice to Batman.

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

It's the only Batman movie out of the old franchise that I think did any justice to Batman.

Interesting, its the only movie from the old franchise which I think doesnt match any depiction of Batman in its long history

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

It's the only Batman movie out of the old franchise that I think did any justice to Batman.

It has Batman shying away from some air-headed bimbo called Chase Meridian (next to the bat-signal), being afraid of her cleavage and then fallling in love with this female character portrayed as the pinnacle of the female shallowness.

And, as if it weren't enough, the climax of the batman-ness features a Batman's butt close-up.

You'll excuse me if I take the word 'justice' with a smile in this case.

[GothamAlleys]

Kilmer doesnt match any version of the character. In MEGA short: no anger, no temper, no Bat poses and moves at all, constantly sad and calm, blonde, falls for a random teasing woman, and the list goes on and on for very long. The only 2 characteristics he shares with comic books Batmen is that hes a good detective and skilled technician

But the worst part of it all is lacking the basic core of the character, which is fury/anger, slef control issues and bat like poses (Bale squatted on the statues and porches, stayed in the shadow, flew with spread wings, Keaton also landed and flew with spread bat wings, his face was screaming anger, controlling issues, wings spreading, etc)

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by GothamAlleys

Interesting, its the only movie from the old franchise which I think doesnt match any depiction of Batman in its long history

Then you must not have read any comics where Bruce is haunted by his parents death and dreams of bats, or an obsessive genius Riddler, or an angry Dick Grayson taken under Bruce's wing. It felt more like Batman to me than the others did. Only Two Face was all wrong.

Originally Posted by El Payaso

It has Batman shying away from some air-headed bimbo called Chase Meridian (next to the bat-signal), being afraid of her cleavage and then fallling in love with this female character portrayed as the pinnacle of the female shallowness.

More believable for him to fall for a shrink who helps him face his haunting dreams instead of some photographer he hardly knows that Alfred takes to the Cave or a psycho chick in a cat costume who blows things up and kidnaps innocent people and teams up with psychos like the Penguin to frame him.

And, as if it weren't enough, the climax of the batman-ness features a Batman's butt close-up.

I'll take that brief shot over looking at Danny DeVito chewing raw fish or always drooling like some rabid dog for two hours.

You'll excuse me if I take the word 'justice' with a smile in this case.

What ever makes you happy.