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Old 12-02-2011, 02:36 PM   #601
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Default Re: The official X-men First Class BD/DVD thread

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So have I. I never really cared much for him in the comics. But what interested me about him in the movie was that they didn't take the easy way out and inject some stupid comedic personality to him. That's what GL did. They knew Hal Jordan was a stiff and that would be hard to make work in a film so they made him....well, Ryan Reynolds. With Cap, they actually made him a guy so sure of his own convictions that instead of allowing circumstances and the world to alter him(which happens in every movie) that he actually made the rest of the world conform to him. To me that alone was fascinating and something you almost never get to see so to me it was a breath of fresh air.
I wish there had been a way for the writers to both keep Steve true to his values and make him interesting. As it was, everything awesome he said and did took place before he donned the costume. In between the time he became Cap and had his final conversation with Peggy he turned into a big zero.

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Old 12-03-2011, 05:31 AM   #602
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Default Re: The official X-men First Class BD/DVD thread

Well I think it was time for him to be a man of ACTION rather than words.

Why do people not remember that these are action-adventure movies and not melodramas???

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Old 12-03-2011, 06:26 AM   #603
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I finally got around to watching the deleted scenes:

- Not sure why exactly, but the bit where Erik sticks a knife into the gut of the Russian soldier while inside the general's mansion disturbed me more than any other violent act Erik does in the film.

- I thought that the first Charles/Moira scene (where Charles is a total cheeseball and Moria brushes him off) was fun and playful, but the later scene at the mansion feels much too abrupt. It's like, Moira goes from "I'm a professional don't you know" to "yay let's make out" because... well because that's what a girl is typically supposed to do in a movie scenario like this Frankly the only time Charles/Moira relationship has any actual weight to me in the film is at the very end, after they go through all that stuff on the beach together.

- Charles losing patience with Alex felt kinda random. Of course he's no perfect saint or anything, but the scene just strikes a wrong chord somehow - maybe because Charles is consistently shown as patient and supportive throughout the training montage no matter what happens and I can't really see why exactly he'd snap at Alex in that particular scene.

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Old 12-03-2011, 06:27 AM   #604
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Well I think it was time for him to be a man of ACTION rather than words.

Why do people not remember that these are action-adventure movies and not melodramas???
Because these are character driven action-adventures. Main characters should have an arc to keep it interesting. Charles, Erik, and Raven have them. Tony Stark has them. Heck even Thor has one. But Captain America doesn't change at all (besides physically) from the beginning to the end of the movie. He doesn't even have anything extra to his personality to begin with. For instance, Thor suffers from self-entitlement. Tony has an ego the size of Mars. Spider-Man is a geek with a penchant for lame puns and jokes. Bruce Wayne is pretty tortured. I won't even get into the main three (or four) from XMFC.

I would have loved to see some hesitancy on the Cap's part. Maybe it turns out the doctor was actually working for the Nazis and Steve gets wicked disillusioned. Or maybe seeing his best friend die temporarily put him off the trail of adventure. Maybe the money rolling in from his performances was tempting and he wrestled with the idea of staying a star vs. joining the army. ANYTHING. This is a character with what, 60, 70 years of comic history? Surely they could have come up with something interesting.

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Old 12-03-2011, 01:55 PM   #605
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I wish there had been a way for the writers to both keep Steve true to his values and make him interesting. As it was, everything awesome he said and did took place before he donned the costume. In between the time he became Cap and had his final conversation with Peggy he turned into a big zero.

Hmm, I didn't take it that way at all. Sure, he's not Mr. Charisma like Tony or Howard Stark but that wouldn't have worked. I don't consider a guy who's straight-laced uninteresting. The key IMO to keeping such a character interesting is seeing the rest of the world play off of him. That's what we got and it was fun to watch. Little stuff like Steve's innocence with the whole fondue thing, etc. And then when taking in the bigger picture of The Avengers it's nice to know that each of the characters are pretty well defined and distinct from one another(personality-wise).

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Old 12-03-2011, 02:06 PM   #606
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Because these are character driven action-adventures. Main characters should have an arc to keep it interesting. Charles, Erik, and Raven have them. Tony Stark has them. Heck even Thor has one. But Captain America doesn't change at all (besides physically) from the beginning to the end of the movie. He doesn't even have anything extra to his personality to begin with. For instance, Thor suffers from self-entitlement. Tony has an ego the size of Mars. Spider-Man is a geek with a penchant for lame puns and jokes. Bruce Wayne is pretty tortured. I won't even get into the main three (or four) from XMFC.

I would have loved to see some hesitancy on the Cap's part. Maybe it turns out the doctor was actually working for the Nazis and Steve gets wicked disillusioned. Or maybe seeing his best friend die temporarily put him off the trail of adventure. Maybe the money rolling in from his performances was tempting and he wrestled with the idea of staying a star vs. joining the army. ANYTHING. This is a character with what, 60, 70 years of comic history? Surely they could have come up with something interesting.
It's true that he doesn't have a traditional arc. And normaly I'd have a problem with that. But I didn't in that movie. What he did have in that movie was not an arc of inner change so much as a finding the right place in the world to be an outlet for the heroic persona he already had long before he got muscles. That's his journey. Superman has a similar one and the two characters are very much alike at their core.

Then there is also another arc going on concurrently with Steve finding his place in the world. It's how he changes the world around him to conform to him(or accept him at least). This is greatly demonstrated by the scenes of audiences watching news-reels in the film. Before Cap comes to be everyone in the theater is cowed by the jerk who just wants the cartoon to start. They're anxious and timid. Only Steve has the guts to call him out. Later in the film people are seen to have been given their spirits back when they watch Cap's serials. In essence he truly did manage to make the world a better place largely just through his refusal to give up.

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Old 12-03-2011, 02:26 PM   #607
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I finally got around to watching the deleted scenes:

- Not sure why exactly, but the bit where Erik sticks a knife into the gut of the Russian soldier while inside the general's mansion disturbed me more than any other violent act Erik does in the film.
I think it's the way he makes sure to twist the knife that's so disturbing. He really wanted that soldier dead. Plus, we got an extended shot of the soldier gasping as he slowly and painfully drops to the ground.

Quote:
- I thought that the first Charles/Moira scene (where Charles is a total cheeseball and Moria brushes him off) was fun and playful, but the later scene at the mansion feels much too abrupt. It's like, Moira goes from "I'm a professional don't you know" to "yay let's make out" because... well because that's what a girl is typically supposed to do in a movie scenario like this Frankly the only time Charles/Moira relationship has any actual weight to me in the film is at the very end, after they go through all that stuff on the beach together.
Yeah, that scene with Charles and Moira kissing was really odd. What scene would it have come after? They literally just fall on the couch and start kissing with no build-up. I feel like there was more filmed of that scene than was shown.

Quote:
- Charles losing patience with Alex felt kinda random. Of course he's no perfect saint or anything, but the scene just strikes a wrong chord somehow - maybe because Charles is consistently shown as patient and supportive throughout the training montage no matter what happens and I can't really see why exactly he'd snap at Alex in that particular scene.
That was a pretty bad scene. No surprise it got deleted.

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Hmm, I didn't take it that way at all. Sure, he's not Mr. Charisma like Tony or Howard Stark but that wouldn't have worked. I don't consider a guy who's straight-laced uninteresting. The key IMO to keeping such a character interesting is seeing the rest of the world play off of him. That's what we got and it was fun to watch. Little stuff like Steve's innocence with the whole fondue thing, etc. And then when taking in the bigger picture of The Avengers it's nice to know that each of the characters are pretty well defined and distinct from one another(personality-wise).
I had no problem with him being straight-laced, in fact, it was quite charming. but couldn't he have had a little sense of humor? Couldn't he have said something interesting about the nature of the war itself? I think the problem lay more in the script itself than in the character because the movie felt so rushed after he left the USO show. Steve needed time to breathe.

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Old 12-05-2011, 07:28 AM   #608
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Default Re: The official X-men First Class BD/DVD thread

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Because these are character driven action-adventures. Main characters should have an arc to keep it interesting. Charles, Erik, and Raven have them. Tony Stark has them. Heck even Thor has one. But Captain America doesn't change at all (besides physically) from the beginning to the end of the movie. He doesn't even have anything extra to his personality to begin with. For instance, Thor suffers from self-entitlement. Tony has an ego the size of Mars. Spider-Man is a geek with a penchant for lame puns and jokes. Bruce Wayne is pretty tortured. I won't even get into the main three (or four) from XMFC.

I would have loved to see some hesitancy on the Cap's part. Maybe it turns out the doctor was actually working for the Nazis and Steve gets wicked disillusioned. Or maybe seeing his best friend die temporarily put him off the trail of adventure. Maybe the money rolling in from his performances was tempting and he wrestled with the idea of staying a star vs. joining the army. ANYTHING. This is a character with what, 60, 70 years of comic history? Surely they could have come up with something interesting.

Wow. Yeah, it's a character driven but there are times for exciting action sequences where the characters aren't talking about there feelings. The section being talked about here is a relatively short period of time in the movie. This was the time for some goddamn action.

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Old 12-05-2011, 03:38 PM   #609
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I finally got around to watching the deleted scenes:

- Not sure why exactly, but the bit where Erik sticks a knife into the gut of the Russian soldier while inside the general's mansion disturbed me more than any other violent act Erik does in the film.

- I thought that the first Charles/Moira scene (where Charles is a total cheeseball and Moria brushes him off) was fun and playful, but the later scene at the mansion feels much too abrupt. It's like, Moira goes from "I'm a professional don't you know" to "yay let's make out" because... well because that's what a girl is typically supposed to do in a movie scenario like this Frankly the only time Charles/Moira relationship has any actual weight to me in the film is at the very end, after they go through all that stuff on the beach together.

- Charles losing patience with Alex felt kinda random. Of course he's no perfect saint or anything, but the scene just strikes a wrong chord somehow - maybe because Charles is consistently shown as patient and supportive throughout the training montage no matter what happens and I can't really see why exactly he'd snap at Alex in that particular scene.
The scene with Charles being a "cheeseball" with Moira was the only deleted scene I kind of wish made it into the movie somehow. It showed Moira not giving into "temptation" , but also showed just how playful Charles can be with his abilities. I grinned cheek-to-cheek when he snapped his fingers and disappeared. Too cute and McAvoy nailed it.

But the later scene with them in the mansion was flat-out WEIRD and I'm so glad it never made it into the movie. McAvoy usually has great chemistry with other actors, but that scene felt so forced. He had a cute smile before they kissed, though.

As for Magneto's "kill"--again, I'm glad they deleted it. It was too dark and out of character. Erik hadn't made that plunge from killing just Nazis to murdering anyone who got in his way; that comes later. To have him do it in such a swift little scene in the middle of the movie would diminish the character development at the ending.

But the worst scene of all--the one that DESERVED to be deleted (or even burned) was Charles snapping at Alex. So stupid, out of character, and it didn't even fit the scene. You don't encourage someone to try something they're uncomfortable with, and then get upset when they don't perform the way you wanted or expected. It was a very immature reaction from Charles and thankfully, the director seemed to agree--deleted!

One scene you didn't mention, however, that I really enjoyed was Charles teaching Sean, and everyone getting sick. That was cute and funny. It also gave Moira a second to be more involved at that part of the movie, but I understand why they cut it; it didn't fit well with the training montage.

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Old 12-05-2011, 08:34 PM   #610
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Wow. Yeah, it's a character driven but there are times for exciting action sequences where the characters aren't talking about there feelings. The section being talked about here is a relatively short period of time in the movie. This was the time for some goddamn action.
Dude there are plenty of other action movies out there that don't require real characterization. See: Mission Impossible, Fast and the Furious, anything with Jason Statham. How many people can attest to loving the James Bond movies not for the cool gadgets, the hot girls (or hot Bonds), the fight scenes, the explosions, or the badass car chases but rather because they want moments where Bond grows as a character. Yeahhh didn't think so.

And even with James Bond we have an interesting character. He's savvy, sauve, and sophisticated, but he's also kind of a dick. And each actor brought a little something extra to the role to give Bond a different personality highlight. While the movies are still action movies that don't need any character development to be good, James Bond leaves us with an immediate impression of who he is. And he's enjoyable to watch.

But Captain America offers nothing. Please I beg of you, list any personality traits he has. I couldn't find any. I think the All-American Hero title fits him too literally, the same way that so many teens identify with the protagonist with Twilight because she has no distinguishable personality traits, likes or dislikes.

That's right, I just compared Steve Rogers to Bella. GAME ON.

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Old 12-06-2011, 03:31 AM   #611
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Dude there are plenty of other action movies out there that don't require real characterization. See: Mission Impossible, Fast and the Furious, anything with Jason Statham. How many people can attest to loving the James Bond movies not for the cool gadgets, the hot girls (or hot Bonds), the fight scenes, the explosions, or the bad ass car chases but rather because they want moments where Bond grows as a character. Yeah didn't think so.

And even with James Bond we have an interesting character. He's savvy, suave, and sophisticated, but he's also kind of a dick. And each actor brought a little something extra to the role to give Bond a different personality highlight. While the movies are still action movies that don't need any character development to be good, James Bond leaves us with an immediate impression of who he is. And he's enjoyable to watch.

But Captain America offers nothing. Please I beg of you, list any personality traits he has. I couldn't find any. I think the All-American Hero title fits him too literally, the same way that so many teens identify with the protagonist with Twilight because she has no distinguishable personality traits, likes or dislikes.

That's right, I just compared Steve Rogers to Bella. GAME ON.
Let's see, just from the movie alone(I never read Cap comics) I'd say his personality traits are:

sincere
honest(but able to distinguish the time when lying is called for)
trustworthy
persevering
a bit innocent/naive when it comes to women
willing to work with others/team player
not ego driven
naturally friendly
loyal


and those are just off the top of my head in a few seconds. You may not like those character traits but saying he doesn't have any is just nonsense. To me, he(and Superman) are the exception to our more common character types who are deeply flawed(I like them but it can get a bit stale having nothing but these types) and because of that they are kind of refreshing. We don't need many wholesome characters but we do need some to balance out the spectrum and Cap & Supes do just fine for me.

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Old 12-06-2011, 07:35 AM   #612
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Let's see, just from the movie alone(I never read Cap comics) I'd say his personality traits are:

sincere
honest(but able to distinguish the time when lying is called for)
trustworthy
persevering
a bit innocent/naive when it comes to women
willing to work with others/team player
not ego driven
naturally friendly
loyal


and those are just off the top of my head in a few seconds. You may not like those character traits but saying he doesn't have any is just nonsense. To me, he(and Superman) are the exception to our more common character types who are deeply flawed(I like them but it can get a bit stale having nothing but these types) and because of that they are kind of refreshing. We don't need many wholesome characters but we do need some to balance out the spectrum and Cap & Supes do just fine for me.
But that's the problem. Give me one negative thing, anything, and his size doesn't count. The character doesn't have to be deeply flawed. They just need balance. If a hero is 100% pure, they just aren't as interesting because there is nothing to discuss. They will fight evil, no matter what, and that's that. If there is nothing to hold them back, why should we even bother rooting for them?

The other thing is that in order for them to be rootable, they must only fight villains who are 100% evil. If the villain is, say, 80% evil but 20% good or conflicted, the all-good hero might latch on to that 20%. We might latch onto that 20% because for many people a grey character is more interesting than one who is pure white or pure black. There are more stories to tell.

I guess I've never understood the point of 100% good or evil characters. To me it just screams laziness. :/

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Old 12-06-2011, 09:47 AM   #613
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But that's the problem. Give me one negative thing, anything, and his size doesn't count. The character doesn't have to be deeply flawed. They just need balance. If a hero is 100% pure, they just aren't as interesting because there is nothing to discuss. They will fight evil, no matter what, and that's that. If there is nothing to hold them back, why should we even bother rooting for them?

The other thing is that in order for them to be rootable, they must only fight villains who are 100% evil. If the villain is, say, 80% evil but 20% good or conflicted, the all-good hero might latch on to that 20%. We might latch onto that 20% because for many people a grey character is more interesting than one who is pure white or pure black. There are more stories to tell.

I guess I've never understood the point of 100% good or evil characters. To me it just screams laziness. :/
Just from the trailer I'd say he's overly naive and idealistic. Not the brightest and maybe a bit stubborn.

Not massive flaws, but he's not depicted as being perfect either. Steve is an old-school hero from a time before everyone needed to be edgey. I still enjoy rooting for the good people, there's a LOT of interesting things you can good with a man with values.

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Old 12-07-2011, 06:23 AM   #614
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One scene you didn't mention, however, that I really enjoyed was Charles teaching Sean, and everyone getting sick. That was cute and funny. It also gave Moira a second to be more involved at that part of the movie, but I understand why they cut it; it didn't fit well with the training montage.
I liked that scene too, but yes it doesn't fit well with the montage's snappy pace.

On 100% good or evil characters: for me it really depends. A character can be "grey" conflicted/antihero kind and still bore me to death; or a character can be wholly good/evil and still be interesting.

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Old 12-07-2011, 12:41 PM   #615
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First Class back to top 20!!!!! (it was out of top 30 previous week!)

http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/chart...y/thisweek.php

And Thor and Captain A. are out of the top 30.

Im quite surprised. The Dvd sales are going really well...

and the movie is already at #27 on top selling dvd's of 2011!

http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/annual/2011.php

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Old 12-07-2011, 07:43 PM   #616
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First Class back to top 20!!!!! (it was out of top 30 previous week!)

http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/chart...y/thisweek.php

And Thor and Captain A. are out of the top 30.

Im quite surprised. The Dvd sales are going really well...

and the movie is already at #27 on top selling dvd's of 2011!

http://www.the-numbers.com/dvd/charts/annual/2011.php
I'm sure the Christmas season has something to do with it.

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Old 12-12-2011, 03:33 PM   #617
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This video is very much perfect.
"I've been shot you selfish a******"
Damn right!
OMG! I totally missed this when you posted it. That was HILARIOUS!

"My God, we've been arguing about this for 50 years!" Hehehe.

Superman is right; X-men are stubborn.

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Old 12-12-2011, 03:47 PM   #618
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Default Re: The official X-men First Class BD/DVD thread

Took me three months and four copies but i finally got a blu ray copy that doesn't skip on my ps3 and will play on my samsung blu ray. (yay )

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Old 12-14-2011, 08:39 AM   #619
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OMG! I totally missed this when you posted it. That was HILARIOUS!

"My God, we've been arguing about this for 50 years!" Hehehe.

Superman is right; X-men are stubborn.
Indeed they are!

And really, the way Magneto kept on making speechs while Charles was in urgent need of medical attention, and Raven abandoning the man who had cared for her for the last 20 years because of her "ideals" (which were never clear enough in the story) were the two moments that bothered me the most in FC, and it was nice to see them referred to in the video...and with a great sense of humour.

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Old 12-16-2011, 05:50 AM   #620
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First Class is at 25# on Top Selling DVD's of 2011 already!!


-----------------------UNITS--------SALES--------RELEASE

25 X-Men: First Class 1,404,736 $22,410,904 9/9/2011
31 Captain America: The First Avenger 1,239,376 $21,870,206 10/25/2011
41 Green Lantern 1,078,160 $15,716,225 10/14/2011
42 Thor 1,078,126 $18,318,604 9/13/2011


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Old 12-16-2011, 10:53 AM   #621
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Nice to see First Class as DVD/Blu-Ray top Comic Book film of the year.Kinda Intresting
Green Lantern Is barely eding out Thor In Dvd/Blu-Ray sales.

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Old 12-16-2011, 11:17 AM   #622
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Nice to see First Class as DVD/Blu-Ray top Comic Book film of the year.Kinda Intresting
Green Lantern Is barely eding out Thor In Dvd/Blu-Ray sales.
These are only the DVD numbers, Blu-ray numbers are seperated...

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Old 12-16-2011, 11:43 AM   #623
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Ok.Also Intresting that Green Lantern has absolutly no special features on DVD while the
Thor DVD has commantary,a few deleted scenes and a lead In to avengers feature.

With the studios being so stingy with special features for DVD nowadays we can tell First Class has more fans wanting to buy the actual movie out of 4 comic book movies of
2011.Because of DOmestic series low Box office First Class came out third worldwide In theatres.Overseas First Class did better than Captain America but because Captain America did better domesticly It IS considered higher worldwide.But It emains very Intresting Thor while highest grossing comic book film of the year In Theatres Is 4th on DVD.Green Lantern considered a bomb In Theatres Is selling slightly better on DVD that Thor.

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Old 12-16-2011, 08:27 PM   #624
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Default Re: The official X-men First Class BD/DVD thread

Just watched the movie again, with my parents. First time around in theaters - inspired me to come out to the rest of my friends. This time around? Once everything else is in order, it'll be an easy way to talk to my Republican father about why I think it's my responsibility to fight for LGBT rights in this upcoming election.


Last edited by Ultimatehero; 12-16-2011 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:27 PM   #625
Ultimatehero
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Default Re: The official X-men First Class BD/DVD thread

-- computer double posted, feel free to delete mods --

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