The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Transformers > Transformers: Dark of the Moon

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-04-2011, 02:38 AM   #51
Jake Cassidy
Side-Kick
 
Jake Cassidy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 14,704
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

There's no need for a reboot. Just continue with a different creative team. But, if they do decide to reboot, I wouldn't mind that either. As long as I like the movies, I don't care who makes them.

Jake Cassidy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 02:48 AM   #52
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,732
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

A reboot would be nice. But they need to wait a while. I'd rather wait 20 years and have a decent reboot than have another Michael Bay movie with his insufferable characters.

Thundercrack85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 03:12 AM   #53
OoAnd1
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 251
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bell110 View Post
I agree, but this is one case that a reboot is absolutely needed, unlike Spiderman or the Hulk.
Why is a reboot absolutely needed? The general audience has enjoyed this franchise.

I agree we need a fresh start, but a reboot implies new robot designs, new origin story, and many of the same characters. That's the complete opposite of what we need.

The general audience doesn't want to see Megatron again. They don't want a different Bumblebee. They don't want a new origin story.

Paramount needs to bring in new villains while keeping Optimus and Bumblebee just the same. BUT, we can have an entirely new focus, plot, human characters, and tone than the previous movies.

A sequel trilogy allows Paramount to keep everything that worked, remove everything flat, and replace it with fresh ideas. A reboot would not allow for that same recipe.

OoAnd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 03:43 AM   #54
Episode29
Hooper Drives The Boat!
 
Episode29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 2,670
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

They should reboot it. These three films are, for better or worse, so utterly projections of Michael Bay's own unique artistic vision that any straight sequels would feel really, really jarring. Bay has taken this series, in its current form, as far as it can go scope and story-wise. A new filmmaker should come in and be given the freedom to start where they'd like to and put their own personal stamp on the property. Continuing this incarnation wouldn't be an easy transition ala Pirates 3 to 4. It would be closer to a post-Dark Knight Rises Batman film under new creative direction attempting to follow Nolan's storyline. It wouldn't work.

Before anyone unnecessarily freaks out, no I don't think Nolan and Bay are comnparable quality-wise. However, they are still both auteurs with highly distinctive, easily recognizable methods of filmmaking and repeated themes throughout their filmography. They aren't journeymen directors.

Episode29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 05:29 AM   #55
bell110
Drunk on Capitol Hill
 
bell110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,024
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_ View Post
Every character I listed was a "proper G1 character". Will we please stop this nonsense that Bay didn't follow G1 anymore closely than anyone else did. Transformers has over 30 divergent timelines, and many, many G1 divergent timelines. Bay did nothing remotely controversial in changing the continuity. The cartoon is far from the only continuity, nor is it the highest regarded G1 continuity.
I didn't say proper G1 characters. I said proper trilogy with G1 characters. Nobody cares about it's 30 divergent timelines. Just keep with the G1 cartoon and everything will be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_ View Post
I'd introduce Daniel [Witwicky] but not as a Witwicky, just as another human kid. I'd advance him in age a bit to make him less annoying, say 17-19. I think Daniel is a good companion for Hot Rod, but it's unnecessary to have him be some prepubescent annoyance.
What's the point of having Daniel if he's not Spike/Sam's son? Might as well make a whole new character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OoAnd1 View Post
Why is a reboot absolutely needed? The general audience has enjoyed this franchise.

I agree we need a fresh start, but a reboot implies new robot designs, new origin story, and many of the same characters. That's the complete opposite of what we need.

The general audience doesn't want to see Megatron again. They don't want a different Bumblebee. They don't want a new origin story.

Paramount needs to bring in new villains while keeping Optimus and Bumblebee just the same. BUT, we can have an entirely new focus, plot, human characters, and tone than the previous movies.

A sequel trilogy allows Paramount to keep everything that worked, remove everything flat, and replace it with fresh ideas. A reboot would not allow for that same recipe.
I don't care about the general audience. Yes, I want a fresh start, new designs, new story, and same characters. That is exactly what we need. How can you say what the "general audience" does and does not want? As far as I'm concerned, the general audience is only in it for the explosions and pretty CGI. I honestly doubt they could tell that Megatron is being used again. As long as things blow up and the bots look cool, it will keep making money.

bell110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 06:44 AM   #56
Donut
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,634
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

I say bring in new Deceptions that way it will be easier to bring in a new main lead instead of Sam. Surely the Witwicky family can not be the only one connected to the bots. Sam can cameo when the Autobots call on Bumblebee for help

Donut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 12:32 PM   #57
Stringer
CHAMPS AGAIN!
 
Stringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West Side-Copy Shop
Posts: 6,183
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

I seriously doubt the general audience cares much if they change BB or Prime. It's not like they had much development at all in the first place. I actually think most people would welcome the more classic look and characterization of the autobots and decipticons.

__________________
"When you come at the King you best not miss"- Omar Little

"We dem lil bald headed b****es on the chessboard"- Bodie Broadus
Stringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 02:34 PM   #58
Optimus_Prime_
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,671
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bell110 View Post
I didn't say proper G1 characters. I said proper trilogy with G1 characters. Nobody cares about it's 30 divergent timelines. Just keep with the G1 cartoon and everything will be fine.
Maybe you don't but if you ever go to a BOTCON, like I have, you'll realize there is much more to Transformers than some bullcrap toy commercial that ran in the 80s.

There is no proper G1 Trilogy. What are you going to do. Autobots fight Decepticons with no continuity for the first two series, then randomly this Matrix appears never having been mentioned before and Optimus died and is replaced by that dude from The Breakfast Club. The popularity declines so they shoehorn back in Optimus? Would that be the first three movies. Yeah Transformers G1 is completely episodic. There was no character or story development for the first two seasons, and then a very loose continuity was established for the third season.

Bay included Peter Cullen as Prime, that (and Welker as Megatron) was the only thing that mattered as far as that cartoon was concerned. The only way the next guy could make it "more like the cartoon" is by having Welker reprise Megatron.

Optimus_Prime_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 03:04 PM   #59
bell110
Drunk on Capitol Hill
 
bell110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,024
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

I realize there is more than the cartoon. Again, I said proper trilogy WITH G1 characters, not proper G1 trilogy. And you may think that the original cartoon was bullcrap, but really, it's the most important thing that happend to Transformers. Taking obscure characters from the comics or from Armada would be a mistake imo.

bell110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 03:17 PM   #60
Nathan
Probationary Ban - I will return in a few days.
 
Nathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 44,999
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

How would it be a mistake? There aren't just G1 fans. New kids every day are growing up with different Transformer incarnations. Instead of just focusing on a single generation, the Movies should try to incorporate the best of all Transformers related things. May it be characters or storylines.

Nathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 04:28 PM   #61
Slushy
The Man
 
Slushy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hell
Posts: 4,994
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Two choices:

A.) Reboot it and have somebody be more faithful to the G1 series or even includes characters from Beast Wars.

B.) Have a better director (Spielberg preferably) come in and try to succeed where Bay failed with following sequels.

Either way works.

__________________
Feel free to add / subscribe me:
YouTube: OneUltimateWarrior
Facebook: Slushy The Penguin
Twitter: TheMachoPunk
Slushy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 04:30 PM   #62
Optimus_Prime_
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,671
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

There isn't just one G1 continuity either. IDW is nothing like the cartoon and probably the best G1 storyline to date.

Optimus_Prime_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 04:45 PM   #63
Episode29
Hooper Drives The Boat!
 
Episode29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 2,670
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackheart View Post
B.) Have a better director (Spielberg preferably) come in and try to succeed where Bay failed with following sequels.

Either way works.
Spielberg will never direct a Transformers movie. Neither will James Cameron. It's time for these hopes to die.

Episode29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 06:36 PM   #64
OoAnd1
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 251
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
I seriously doubt the general audience cares much if they change BB or Prime. It's not like they had much development at all in the first place. I actually think most people would welcome the more classic look and characterization of the autobots and decipticons.
What?! Most of them don't even remember the classic look or know the classic characterization! I do. You do. But we're posting on a Transformers forum.

The general audience LOVE Optimus and BB. An example, I was in line with these 4 girls (around 20yr old).. they couldn't even name anyone else! Not even Shia's character. He was just "Shia".

So, no. You can't change Optimus and BB without losing fans of the movies.

OoAnd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 06:45 PM   #65
Stringer
CHAMPS AGAIN!
 
Stringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West Side-Copy Shop
Posts: 6,183
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

The only reason the GA loves those two is because they're the only Transformers that are used in marketing.

They could easily go through a design change and make Optimus and BB more like their normal characterizations and I'm sure the general audience would be on board.

In fact I'm positive they would like BB more as the smaller underdog character, rather than the badass that can take out Soundwave and Skorponok with relative ease.

__________________
"When you come at the King you best not miss"- Omar Little

"We dem lil bald headed b****es on the chessboard"- Bodie Broadus
Stringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 06:48 PM   #66
OoAnd1
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 251
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bell110 View Post
I don't care about the general audience. Yes, I want a fresh start, new designs, new story, and same characters. That is exactly what we need. How can you say what the "general audience" does and does not want? As far as I'm concerned, the general audience is only in it for the explosions and pretty CGI. I honestly doubt they could tell that Megatron is being used again. As long as things blow up and the bots look cool, it will keep making money.
Well, I actually want more Transformers movies. A reboot would likely fail to spark a new movie franchise because the general audience will not come back to re-watch a similar story. I agree most people can't even name the main villain... but they're not idiots either. As soon as "Megatron" is mentioned they're going to say, "What him again?" You can't reboot it this soon after a successful trilogy. This isn't Spider-Man 3 where everyone left the theater disappointed.

And I'm not a Transformer purist where I'm okay waiting a decade before I watch another TF film on screen.

OoAnd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 06:54 PM   #67
OoAnd1
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 251
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
The only reason the GA loves those two is because they're the only Transformers that are used in marketing.

They could easily go through a design change and make Optimus and BB more like their normal characterizations and I'm sure the general audience would be on board.

In fact I'm positive they would like BB more as the smaller underdog character, rather than the badass that can take out Soundwave and Skorponok with relative ease.
I disagree. They were both charming characters in the films, not just marketing. They were the only Autobots given any personality. It's a risk to change them.

In fact, it's a risk to even give BB a voice! But that is one risk that could work IF Bumblebee is given a lot of great lines to makeup for his lost "radio charm".

OoAnd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 07:06 PM   #68
Stringer
CHAMPS AGAIN!
 
Stringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West Side-Copy Shop
Posts: 6,183
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Radio charm?? That crap got old after the first movie, where it somewhat made sense that he couldn't talk.

BB basically remained Shia's pet throughout the trilogy with absolutely no development whatsoever. So much more can be done with the character imo.

__________________
"When you come at the King you best not miss"- Omar Little

"We dem lil bald headed b****es on the chessboard"- Bodie Broadus
Stringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 07:06 PM   #69
OoAnd1
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 251
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Episode29 View Post
Continuing this incarnation wouldn't be an easy transition ala Pirates 3 to 4. It would be closer to a post-Dark Knight Rises Batman film under new creative direction attempting to follow Nolan's storyline. It wouldn't work.
These Transformers films are very unique because they actually star a human character. This isn't Batman where it stars Batman. Sam was our narrative point-of-view to the Transformers world.

If you change that, our "eyes", then you can visually change the tone of the films.

Transformers films will never star Optimus. It will always use some other vehicle (no pun) to showcase the Autobot/Decepticon conflict. Which is why every director has a ton of freedom when it comes to story-telling and tone. Just don't mess with continuity.

OoAnd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 08:09 PM   #70
Episode29
Hooper Drives The Boat!
 
Episode29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 2,670
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OoAnd1 View Post
These Transformers films are very unique because they actually star a human character. This isn't Batman where it stars Batman. Sam was our narrative point-of-view to the Transformers world.

If you change that, our "eyes", then you can visually change the tone of the films.

Transformers films will never star Optimus. It will always use some other vehicle (no pun) to showcase the Autobot/Decepticon conflict. Which is why every director has a ton of freedom when it comes to story-telling and tone. Just don't mess with continuity.
Oh, Shia's completely replaceable. All of the humans are. So are most of the robots. I'm not talking about them at all. I'm talking about how all of the elements Bay has brought to the series have made them highly distinctive, idiosyncratic representations of his thematic, visual and stylistic obsessions. They are Michael Bay films, not Transformers films. To continue on in the same continuity with a new filmmaker is to remove the majority of the pieces which comprise the whole.

If the Transformers franchise is to continue under new guidance it needs to establish its own filmic universe. Unless, of course, if you hire a hack who is willing to copycat Bay to the tee. If you do that, everyone loses.

Unfortunately, you can't transition from auteur to (prospective) auteur very coherently. You need journeymen directors to pull that off convincingly, or strong producer control (ala the Broccoli's with Bond or Marvel studios with their properties) to maintain series consistency. That hasn't been the case with Transformers: it has been pretty much Bay's baby from day one.

Episode29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 09:02 PM   #71
Optimus_Prime_
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,671
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
The only reason the GA loves those two is because they're the only Transformers that are used in marketing.

They could easily go through a design change and make Optimus and BB more like their normal characterizations and I'm sure the general audience would be on board.

In fact I'm positive they would like BB more as the smaller underdog character, rather than the badass that can take out Soundwave and Skorponok with relative ease.
Optimus Prime's characterization wasn't off, he had the same voice actor for pete's sake.

Bumblebee, yeah that was different, but honestly I like it better. They were on this track with Cheetor and Hot Shot who basically took the role of "everyone's favorite buddy". I like Bumblebee being a badass though, but ya'know a loveable badass.

That said I would ditch the speech gimmick and find a good voice actor for him. It's time. In a way it's grown on me for Bumblebee to have a schitck, the radio thing is incredibly charming but I just feel like it locks his character in too much.

Optimus_Prime_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 09:20 PM   #72
OoAnd1
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 251
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Episode29 View Post
Unfortunately, you can't transition from auteur to (prospective) auteur very coherently. You need journeymen directors to pull that off convincingly, or strong producer control (ala the Broccoli's with Bond or Marvel studios with their properties) to maintain series consistency. That hasn't been the case with Transformers: it has been pretty much Bay's baby from day one.
You make a lot of great points. Few franchises reach 6 films any way. And those that have, do not have one director filming the first set of 3 followed by another director filming the second set. Like you said, it's usually just a bunch of different film-makers doing 1 or 2.

But I think it could happen with this franchise. I'm not saying bring in John Woo, Chris Nolan, Michael Mann, James Cameron, to do it. But there are a directors that are close enough to Bay's general appeal that could follow him up.

Jon Favreau, Robert Zemeckis, Neill Blomkamp, Joss Whedon, for example. They all blend seriousness with humor pretty well while making stuff on the screen look pretty. And with Spielberg remaining as Producer, it could work.

OoAnd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 09:26 PM   #73
OoAnd1
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 251
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_ View Post
That said I would ditch the speech gimmick and find a good voice actor for him. It's time. In a way it's grown on me for Bumblebee to have a schitck, the radio thing is incredibly charming but I just feel like it locks his character in too much.
Exactly, you'd need a great voice actor that's charming to replace his radio charm. They can't just take it away and add some serious voice actor/ personality and have him speak 5 lines the entire film.

He'd have to remain funny but cool. I personally like Ryan Reynolds for it. Like a PG-13 Deadpool-spin-- talking all the time now that he can speak, being sarcastic, joking with other Autobots.

OoAnd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 10:15 PM   #74
Stringer
CHAMPS AGAIN!
 
Stringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West Side-Copy Shop
Posts: 6,183
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_ View Post
Optimus Prime's characterization wasn't off, he had the same voice actor for pete's sake.

Bumblebee, yeah that was different, but honestly I like it better. They were on this track with Cheetor and Hot Shot who basically took the role of "everyone's favorite buddy". I like Bumblebee being a badass though, but ya'know a loveable badass.

That said I would ditch the speech gimmick and find a good voice actor for him. It's time. In a way it's grown on me for Bumblebee to have a schitck, the radio thing is incredibly charming but I just feel like it locks his character in too much.
As many have said before, Prime was a little too bloodthirsty in the last two movies. Didn't see totally true to the character. That said, he doesn't need any major changes, just minor tweaks. He was pretty much spot on in the first one.

BB on the other hand is different. IMO, there's enough badass transformers to use. They already had Ironhide. BB could be used differently. That's what everyone is saying about giving them some personality. Not everyone has to fight the same way.

__________________
"When you come at the King you best not miss"- Omar Little

"We dem lil bald headed b****es on the chessboard"- Bodie Broadus
Stringer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2011, 11:19 PM   #75
Optimus_Prime_
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,671
Default Re: Was tying it off a good thing [SPOILERS]?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer View Post

BB on the other hand is different. IMO, there's enough badass transformers to use. They already had Ironhide. BB could be used differently. That's what everyone is saying about giving them some personality. Not everyone has to fight the same way.
Bumblebee actually was the only other Autobot with a distinct fighting style. I mean he wasn't an overgunned warrior like Ironhide, and he seemed to be really scrappy, and fought like a boxer. I liked all that. I mean everyone else usually just did the 'point and shoot' and maybe had a scene to display a cool power, but Bumblebee did seem have have his own way.

"IMO there's enough badass transformers to use".

Again these observations are meaningless in the world of Transformers. You may like Prowl (for example), but there are many, many characters who have been called Prowl and many of them "G1". Bumblebee is justified as a "badass" character. This is pretty much where the fiction had him going for a while at that point. Dreamwave had already dropped the whole "weakest of the Autobots routine", and were pretty much writing him like Hot Shot (who was basically a BB knockoff to begin with).

Optimus_Prime_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.