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Old 07-14-2011, 06:36 PM   #101
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

I like the fact Clark loses his "physical" humanity as he grows up, becoming more powerful with time. I personally would like for baby Kal-el to have some health problems adjusting to Earth's environment. At least at first. Seems weird to me that an alien body would adapt easily to another completely different atmosphere. It would take some time for it to adjust. Then, as time goes by, he becomes stronger and stronger.

It is nice to think that later in life, Clark pretends to be human because he once was. He was once weak, fragile. He constantly longs for that, especially when he meets Lois and finds he can't have children with her.

To me this aspect is much more powerful than simply... Oh, im alien and I feel bad.

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Old 07-14-2011, 06:42 PM   #102
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I really hop they go with the three man approach:

Clark Kent: Forgettable, bumbling journalist of the Daily Planet. His negative attributes are exaggerated to the point where only a few people talk to him.

Kal-El: Last son of Krypton, adresses other aliens and is addressed as "Kal-El/ Kal/ El" by other aliens. His rather more "glorious" traits are extenuated than that of Superman.

Superman: Somewhere between the two inherited the power of his birth parents and the morals of his Earth parents. Wants to be out helping people.

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Old 07-14-2011, 07:07 PM   #103
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

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It's amazing how quickly sweeping arrogant comments can end a civil debate.
That may've been harsh, but its increasingly bothersome to me how people here base their entire view of a 70 year old character on the last 20 years while bashing or nitpicking the rest without knowing much about it.

If Nolan did that with Batman, Bale's portrayal wouldnt be as complex. It would be "Bruce Wayne is dead, there is only Batman", which is just as one dimensional as "I'm only Clark. Superman's just a job, and Kal El is just a useless name my other parents gave me."

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Old 07-14-2011, 09:04 PM   #104
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

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I'm not saying it's not his kryptonian name. Just that it's never something he thinks of himself in terms of. He'd never think of himself as Kal-el. It's not who he truly is.
What was by far the most successful and popular version of Superman-the Silver/Bronze Age version-completely thought of himself as Kal-El, Clark Kent AND Superman.

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So is anyone else wondering as I am on how they’ll come up with an explanation as to why Clark starts to don the Glasses at the time he chooses to in the same believable manner that they were able to incorporate the Batsuit/Gadgets/Tumbler into BB?

I mean, I hope they’re not going to go down the route where Clark after many years of not having worn glasses, with everyone having gotten familiar with his face, chooses to suddenly don them and that no one will recognize his face once he emerges as Superman. But in the same time, unless he had chosen to wear glasses at a VERY early age, there’s no believable way in this already “suspended in disbelief” route that they could say that no one would have recognized Clark if they had been already familiar with his face without the glasses.

I’m also wondering, if they do go down the Birthright route, where Clark chooses to learn more about his heritage AFTER he comes back from his foreign trip, why had he waited so long to do so?
He needs to be wearing glasses and acting the mild mannered part years before he ever becomes Superman.

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Old 07-14-2011, 09:31 PM   #105
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

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He needs to be wearing glasses and acting the mild mannered part years before he ever becomes Superman.
Why?

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Old 07-14-2011, 10:15 PM   #106
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The problem with Superman being the true person or himself referring himself as Kal-El. Where's the human side of him? Where's the guy I can relate to? Why should I care about a guy who's human side is just a fake. Its stupid that a guy who was raised human. Never knew he was alien until he was a teen would just suddenly give up his humanity. For what? His parents died? Real people parents die and they don't suddenly say their a different person. It's inconceivable to me any person would do such a thing. Kuro you keep saying the character was more popular then but Superman's popularity was already waning way before the COIE. Suggesting people were getting tired of Superman as a overpowered, semi-perfect, cocky, invinible boring hero. Thats the facts. Marvel raised the bar in the 60's to 70's. People didn't like perfect characters with no faults like most DC hero's at the time. If Superman or any character for that matter what to stay relevant they have to evolve. Spiderman shares many similarities to his original character but he isn't the same character. Batman shares many similarities to his original character but isn't the same. Characters to stay fresh have to evolve and refresh or time will pass them by. I feel like you want the Superman from when you were a kid to come back and thats perfectly understandable. But you as a Superman fan have to know that many Silver Age elements are just outdated in today's society. This is 2011 not the 1960's. Times have changed so why must Superman stay the same while other heroes have evolved. Every writer who writes Superman can respect the people who created the character but every writer should put their own spin on the character. It's understandable that you feel that the Superman you loved in your childhood isn't whats being written in comics today. And its understandable to make bias and uneducated arguments like he was more popular in one decade when in reality is still very much a popular character. Ever since his 86 revival he has appeared in his own TV show a whooping 3 times. Has has 3 animated series, 1 movie(1 upcoming of course), a ****load of bad characters, and many other appearences. He's still very popular. Superman is still a AAA franchise. Yes he's not popular as he use to be. But all it takes is 1. 1 movie. 1 Movie to make him beloved by all once again. I once again understand your problems with the current Superman. And I know the character isn't perfect these days but the character is still ripe for great stories for many future generations.

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Old 07-14-2011, 11:05 PM   #107
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

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Why?
Two reasons. One, if everyone knows Clark with glasses and acting timid, then it's harder to guess he's Superman. Two, it shows that from a very young age, Superman has chosen what he wants to do with his life and his powers.

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The problem with Superman being the true person or himself referring himself as Kal-El. Where's the human side of him? Where's the guy I can relate to? Why should I care about a guy who's human side is just a fake. Its stupid that a guy who was raised human. Never knew he was alien until he was a teen would just suddenly give up his humanity. For what? His parents died? Real people parents die and they don't suddenly say their a different person. It's inconceivable to me any person would do such a thing. Kuro you keep saying the character was more popular then but Superman's popularity was already waning way before the COIE. Suggesting people were getting tired of Superman as a overpowered, semi-perfect, cocky, invinible boring hero. Thats the facts. Marvel raised the bar in the 60's to 70's. People didn't like perfect characters with no faults like most DC hero's at the time. If Superman or any character for that matter what to stay relevant they have to evolve. Spiderman shares many similarities to his original character but he isn't the same character. Batman shares many similarities to his original character but isn't the same. Characters to stay fresh have to evolve and refresh or time will pass them by. I feel like you want the Superman from when you were a kid to come back and thats perfectly understandable. But you as a Superman fan have to know that many Silver Age elements are just outdated in today's society. This is 2011 not the 1960's. Times have changed so why must Superman stay the same while other heroes have evolved. Every writer who writes Superman can respect the people who created the character but every writer should put their own spin on the character. It's understandable that you feel that the Superman you loved in your childhood isn't whats being written in comics today. And its understandable to make bias and uneducated arguments like he was more popular in one decade when in reality is still very much a popular character. Ever since his 86 revival he has appeared in his own TV show a whooping 3 times. Has has 3 animated series, 1 movie(1 upcoming of course), a ****load of bad characters, and many other appearences. He's still very popular. Superman is still a AAA franchise. Yes he's not popular as he use to be. But all it takes is 1. 1 movie. 1 Movie to make him beloved by all once again. I once again understand your problems with the current Superman. And I know the character isn't perfect these days but the character is still ripe for great stories for many future generations.
Attempts to make Superman relatable have consistently failed for 25 years now. And my arguments about his declining popularity are NOT uneducated, as everything I say about comics I can back up with facts and figures. Superman sales from the 80's on have declined steadily. Superman was #1 until the early 80's, mostly because they lost Maggin and Marty Pasko as writers, and the failure of Superman III and IV hurt as well.

If making Superman a relatable character like Spider-Man was a successful strategy, it would have worked by now. 25 years of failure proves that people are not interested in relating to Superman-to Clark Kent, yes, but not Superman. People want to look up to Superman.


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Old 07-15-2011, 12:03 AM   #108
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

And yet, Death of Superman is the biggest comic event of all time in Superman history, done in post-crisis. So, your assumption is completely false.

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Old 07-15-2011, 12:52 AM   #109
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And yet, Death of Superman is the biggest comic event of all time in Superman history, done in post-crisis. So, your assumption is completely false.
It sold for one issue what every issue of 6 Superman family titles sold in the 60's. Plus it was a gimmick, plus it had been done before and done better by Superman's creator, plus a lot of Superman haters lapped it up because they had a faux Hulk beat him to death. And the boost it gave in sales was only temporary.

The Death and Return of Superman was the best story of the Iron Age Superman, though (1986-2002). But that's not really saying much.

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Old 07-15-2011, 02:55 AM   #110
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Best story? What about Superman for all seasons, peace on earth, eradicator, exile, action comics 775, action comics 800, secret identity, they call it suicide slum and many others?

There's plenty of GREAT stories in the iron age. In fact, i think this era is the most consistent era of all Superman comics. We actually saw plenty of character development and a bunch of supporting characters and they all mattered.

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Old 07-15-2011, 03:12 AM   #111
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

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He needs to be wearing glasses and acting the mild mannered part years before he ever becomes Superman.
If he's mild mannered for years, he has to really be mild mannered and not an act. He doesn't have a superhero identity to hide yet, so there's no reason to put on an act. And this could be because for years, he's had to hide his powers, so he essentially never had the advantage of his superhuman genetics to be the cool or popular guy. But when he finally gets to be himself, flying around and lifting tons, he becomes the confident, heroic character we all know, and he has to retain his previous personality as Clark Kent so nobody would realize they're the same person, essentially acting like he's still a mild mannered, shy, nerdy guy even though he's changed.

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Old 07-15-2011, 03:17 AM   #112
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It will be interesting to see if they take a very realistic approach to the job that Superman has on his hands every day.

Previous films have (arguably) dumbed down the challenges that Superman faces. Now don't get me wrong; lifting New Krypton, or flying so fast he goes back in time ............... they are challenges alright, but they're very physical challenges and as we all know amazing physical feats aren't a problem for Superman.

In 2011, the type of villainy he has to face is much more complex and complicated than we ever saw in Donner films. Bank robbers? Terrorists with bombs? Easy foil for someone like Superman really.

How does Superman - the champion of right - face fraudsters? Paedophiles? International crime syndicates? Drug gangs? Cyber hackers who can kill thousands from their keyboard by hacking into defense systems? Bio-warfare?

That's something which, in terms of characterization, I'd like to see Superman wrestling with mentally. More complex and underhand criminality which can't just be dealt with by flicking someone unconscious or tying someone up with a lamppost; crime which actually challenges Superman's intelligence in terms of identifying it and locating it.

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Old 07-15-2011, 04:18 AM   #113
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It will be interesting to see if they take a very realistic approach to the job that Superman has on his hands every day.

Previous films have (arguably) dumbed down the challenges that Superman faces. Now don't get me wrong; lifting New Krypton, or flying so fast he goes back in time ............... they are challenges alright, but they're very physical challenges and as we all know amazing physical feats aren't a problem for Superman.

In 2011, the type of villainy he has to face is much more complex and complicated than we ever saw in Donner films. Bank robbers? Terrorists with bombs? Easy foil for someone like Superman really.

How does Superman - the champion of right - face fraudsters? Paedophiles? International crime syndicates? Drug gangs? Cyber hackers who can kill thousands from their keyboard by hacking into defense systems? Bio-warfare?

That's something which, in terms of characterization, I'd like to see Superman wrestling with mentally. More complex and underhand criminality which can't just be dealt with by flicking someone unconscious or tying someone up with a lamppost; crime which actually challenges Superman's intelligence in terms of identifying it and locating it.
Well, if my memory serves me correct, I believe Birthright had Superman confronting a individual who was selling weapons on the streets (with teenagers having access to them as well), thus when Superman caught the person, he wanted to give the guy a example that he'd never forget, thus he shot the person with one of his own guns, only to catch the bullet right in front of his face at the last second to have the person feel on what it was like for any victim that had been caught in the crossfire of the guns that he had sold.

Pretty powerful stuff if you ask me.

But yeah, I mean, like you said, the human villains that superman has encountered in the films; they've been nothing but such stereotypical villains (bank robbers namely).

I mean I've seen many other films with more realistic everyday villains (the kind you hear about on the news), where I was thinking; "Wow, it'd be so cool to see Superman kick that person's ass or stop that person from committing that crime".

Since criminals are afraid of Batman, you'd think that they'd be even more afraid of a person who they wouldn't be able to hurt AT all unless they had kryptonite, super strength, or Magic on their side.


Also, if this is truly to be a origin film, where Superman didn't undergo through some Kryptonian training to hone his powers, it'd be interesting to see him having to pull out all of the stops and learn how to use his powers effectively when having to do things like saving a plane, rescuing people from a burning apartment; etc, ALL for the first time in his life.

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Old 07-15-2011, 06:58 AM   #114
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Kuro comics popularity as a whole went down from the 60's. Superman or Batman or any character wasn't gonna sell as well. Also its was the 90's. Dark and Edgy was in. Do you truly think silver age Superman would have fit in? Superman comic sales were always gonna down. His sales have just went down due to bad writing by bad writers, not by the character itself. The character had to change with times or risk being seen as a relic of a older age. But the characters popularity today is due to the silver age. Superman is seen as too powerful or to perfect or not relateable. This is all from the silver age.

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Old 07-15-2011, 07:05 AM   #115
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I would very much like to see a Superman that is somewhat naive of his powers and how best to use them when he first takes on that role. As long as no-one dies(!) it would make for some interesting, probably dramatic and amusing moments along the way.

But perhaps someone does need to die to show him that although he is very powerful, he can't save everyone and do everything.
He has to choose the moments when he acts and that could lead to some inner conflict/confusion.

Lets say he does something and Joe Bloggs lives, but because he was not able to do something else during that time, Jane Doe dies.

How would that make him feel?

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Old 07-15-2011, 07:35 AM   #116
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

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That may've been harsh, but its increasingly bothersome to me how people here base their entire view of a 70 year old character on the last 20 years while bashing or nitpicking the rest without knowing much about it.

If Nolan did that with Batman, Bale's portrayal wouldnt be as complex. It would be "Bruce Wayne is dead, there is only Batman", which is just as one dimensional as "I'm only Clark. Superman's just a job, and Kal El is just a useless name my other parents gave me."
Well it's becoming increasingly annoying that some posters on this forum want to ignore the last 20 years of the characters progression.

Look, for some reason you have assumed that I know nothing about the characters roots, or the silver age approach. I'm not going to get into nit picking and start listing every comic I've read or interpretation I've seen, because competition between fans as to who is the biggest, is IMO very pathetic.

But I am not some idiot talking about things I don't have any knowledge of at all.

I'm just a Superman fan who looks at the character as a whole and makes a judgement based on what makes sense too me and what I like.

Just because you choose to look at only certain parts and stick with them rigidly, doesn't mean you are right, or more knowledgable than me.

For whatever reason, you continue to see the 'Clark is who he is' approach as boring and simple. And it doesn't seem to matter how many posters describe how complex a character that can be, you can't see it.

I want MOS to take a lot from Batman in terms of how they portray his two public faces. Both a disguise, with the real man underneath.

The only thing we disagree on is who we want that man to be. Clark (the man who was raised by the kents, who is essentially psychologically human, with human hobbies, desires etc) or Kal-el (who is a kryptonian that the kents found, who learned about human life through them and decided to become our protector).

It's just a matter of preference.

There is no right or wrong.

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Old 07-15-2011, 08:23 AM   #117
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

Who can relate to a character who chooses to be Alien than human?

I was reading a tidbit from a book on Batman's psychology. Even back when he was a vengeance driven nut, who would not think twice about killing criminals under the circumstances, you know what made him innocent? His humanity. Bruce didn't become Batman to get REVENGE...It was about VENEGANCE for victims of crime like him. His humanity is what made him become Batman. His care for people.

Superman needs to be Clark Kent in order to substain his connection to humanity in general. It makes him look out of touch, distant and cold if he prefers to be Kal-El, and the "City Clark Kent" is just a plain ruse by a cold Alien.

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Old 07-15-2011, 08:44 AM   #118
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Who can relate to a character who chooses to be Alien than human?
Lots of immigrants around the world?

But Superman doesn't choose, it's what he is.

Quote:
I was reading a tidbit from a book on Batman's psychology. Even back when he was a vengeance driven nut, who would not think twice about killing criminals under the circumstances, [...]
This is not the Batman board, but this is a "misportray" of the early Batman stories. There is no proof that he was intended as a vengeance driven nut (they didn't come up with his origin until months later), nor did he kill criminals right and left...

Quote:
you know what made him innocent? His humanity. Bruce didn't become Batman to get REVENGE...It was about VENEGANCE for victims of crime like him. His humanity is what made him become Batman. His care for people.
If you really want to take the old Batman stories for what they are and not confuse them with later additions than Bruce Wayne became Batman just for fun. He was more like an adventurer.

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Superman needs to be Clark Kent in order to substain his connection to humanity in general. It makes him look out of touch, distant and cold if he prefers to be Kal-El, and the "City Clark Kent" is just a plain ruse by a cold Alien.
It adds dimensions to the character. Also your description is nothing but an oversimplification. The pre-Crisis Superman is a more complex character than Post-Crisis Clark-Kent-The-Hunk.

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Old 07-15-2011, 09:26 AM   #119
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Lots of immigrants around the world?

But Superman doesn't choose, it's what he is.
Its obviously different though.



Quote:
This is not the Batman board, but this is a "misportray" of the early Batman stories. There is no proof that he was intended as a vengeance driven nut (they didn't come up with his origin until months later), nor did he kill criminals right and left...
Its what Batman was perceived as though originally. I know he didn't kill left and right, he kiiled on occasions, but it was never out of malice.



Quote:
If you really want to take the old Batman stories for what they are and not confuse them with later additions than Bruce Wayne became Batman just for fun. He was more like an adventurer.
Not in Batman and Case Of The Chemical Syndicate.



Quote:
It adds dimensions to the character. Also your description is nothing but an oversimplification. The pre-Crisis Superman is a more complex character than Post-Crisis Clark-Kent-The-Hunk.
Thats the preferable kind IMO. Superman is a man of two worlds as I said before.

KAL-EL + CLARK KENT = SUPERMAN

He honours both Earth and Krypton.

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Old 07-15-2011, 12:09 PM   #120
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Just because you choose to look at only certain parts and stick with them rigidly, doesn't mean you are right, or more knowledgable than me.
Oh look, here's hopeful trying to look more open minded than the person she's debating with. And I"M arrogantly making sweeping statements. Lol. Unlike most people on this board, I have bothered to look at multiple versions of Superman, so dont try that crap. In fact, my approach to Clark actually reflecs the more modern version of the character, which is trying to integrate both pre and post crisis into continuity.

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For whatever reason, you continue to see the 'Clark is who he is' approach as boring and simple. And it doesn't seem to matter how many posters describe how complex a character that can be, you can't see it.
I see it as boring and simple...because I find it...boring and simple. Once again, you seem not to understand that people have different opinions than you. Just like how you'll always have negative notions of STM despite what people may say to you otherwise. Don't act like your opinions are fluid and subject to change, you are just as set in your ways as anyone else.


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The only thing we disagree on is who we want that man to be. Clark (the man who was raised by the kents, who is essentially psychologically human, with human hobbies, desires etc) or Kal-el (who is a kryptonian that the kents found, who learned about human life through them and decided to become our protector).
No...only you and others who just see "Clark is who I am" see it as a black and white issue. He is both Clark AND Kal El. Both Man AND Superman.

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Old 07-15-2011, 12:11 PM   #121
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Who can relate to a character who chooses to be Alien than human?
No offense, but this is why I get so annoyed around here.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

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Old 07-15-2011, 12:16 PM   #122
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Best story? What about Superman for all seasons, peace on earth, eradicator, exile, action comics 775, action comics 800, secret identity, they call it suicide slum and many others?

There's plenty of GREAT stories in the iron age. In fact, i think this era is the most consistent era of all Superman comics. We actually saw plenty of character development and a bunch of supporting characters and they all mattered.
None of those stories are as good as the Death and Return of Superman, except for Secret Identity which was the Earth-Prime Superman redux.

I don't like Superman for All Seasons. Superman as Lennie from Of Mice and Men doesn't appeal to me.

The most consistent era of Superman stories was the prime Silver Age era in terms of constant quality and creativity. Everything since, including Post-Crisis, is based in that era. The Silver Age Superman IS Superman. My favorite era is actually the Golden Age, but the Silver Age version is the most creative, important, influential and successful version. The very best stories ever were Maggin, Pasko and Bates Bronze Age stories and Maggin's novels.


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Kuro comics popularity as a whole went down from the 60's. Superman or Batman or any character wasn't gonna sell as well. Also its was the 90's. Dark and Edgy was in. Do you truly think silver age Superman would have fit in? Superman comic sales were always gonna down. His sales have just went down due to bad writing by bad writers, not by the character itself. The character had to change with times or risk being seen as a relic of a older age. But the characters popularity today is due to the silver age. Superman is seen as too powerful or to perfect or not relateable. This is all from the silver age.
I think a more classic Superman would have stood out, but Superman is SUPPOSED to stand out, not fit in. Superman should not just be another superhero.

The attempts to change Superman with the times are what caused his decline in popularity. Post-Crisis Superman is New Coke.

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Old 07-15-2011, 12:23 PM   #123
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

And I hate this idea around here that just because its new its "character progression and therefore better".

Like I've said before, just because an idea is 25 years old instead of 73 does NOT make it better.

Thats like saying the convoluted Matrix Supergirl is a better idea than just making her Superman's cousin. It's not.

And all this is moot anyway, since the comics have constantly been bringing back pre crisis concepts to begin with.

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Old 07-15-2011, 12:35 PM   #124
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

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Oh look, here's hopeful trying to look more open minded than the person she's debating with. And I"M arrogantly making sweeping statements. Lol. Unlike most people on this board, I have bothered to look at multiple versions of Superman, so dont try that crap. In fact, my approach to Clark actually reflecs the more modern version of the character, which is trying to integrate both pre and post crisis into continuity.
I'm arrogant because what I said sounds open minded?

Okay...

As for bothering to look at multiple versions of Superman... did you even remotely read my post? Where I explicitly said that I HAVE looked at Superman's evolution as a whole, and read comics from all different eras?

Seriously, did you just copy and paste the rest of my post for comment, but delete that whole bit and just pretend i hadn't said it?

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I see it as boring and simple...because I find it...boring and simple. Once again, you seem not to understand that people have different opinions than you. Just like how you'll always have negative notions of STM despite what people may say to you otherwise. Don't act like your opinions are fluid and subject to change, you are just as set in your ways as anyone else.
I know you find it simple and boring. What i'm saying is that there are a lot of people out there who have come up with complex and interesting ideas on how to handle it.

But I believe I made it perfectly clear this is all a matter of opinion, and no one is right or wrong... so I don't see what the problem is.

I am flexible on many things, but I know what I prefer sure. Doesn't mean that if I don't get it i'm going to not see the movie, or even not enjoy it.

I mean, I enjoyed All Star Superman, but it's not my preference in a portrayal of Superman.

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No...only you and others who just see "Clark is who I am" see it as a black and white issue. He is both Clark AND Kal El. Both Man AND Superman.
See, the way you come across sometimes is that you want no MAN at all, only Superman. So I guess we are both wrong about each others views.

Because i've said time and time again that it's not black and white. That he's a combination of all his personalities. That each one is just an extension of a part of his personality.

I just feel that when you get right down to the core, if you took away all the super powers and the disguises, you'd have a man named Clark Kent.

Other people don't see that, fine. I still hope that the movie takes this approach.

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Old 07-15-2011, 12:52 PM   #125
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization

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All Star Superman perfectly captures how Superman sees things due to his alien nature and superhuman senses. Birthright also has Clark Seeing people's auras...which, instead of making him detached as you claim, only makes him more sympathetic and compassionate to other people.
Going from the cartoon, it makes *him* more attached to us, but not *us* more attached to him. The latter is very important, and shouldn't be sacrificed, imho. It's important to look up to Superman, for whatever reason, but if he's not psychologically human, then he becomes utterly useless as a character.

The problem with looking up to superman, is that the modern audience doesn't want to look up to people. They want their heroes down on their level, and so the challenge with Superman is to show, to validate, this journey to becoming the person that we all know and love. Instead of starting the movie with a 75 year old status quo, you make going from this person we all are, to this person we all look up to - make that the character arc.

To make that story, Clark Kent has to be the heart. Kal-El is the revelation, not the core. Superman is the answer to both. See how that has theme and story? Clark's answer to Kal-El is Superman?

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You act like Kal El is some completely seperate entity.
From reading the rest of your posts, I see you have a valid point of view, but when you make overstated (baseless?) statements like this, you reveal that you're not really listening, which discourages others from listening to you.

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That is not the case. Kal El = Clark, and vice versa. Once again, people change and grow. Not everyone bases their entire personality on what they learned when they were 13.
Yeah they do, they grow *from that point.* It is the base. It is not their entire personality, but it is, in fact, the base of their entire personality. It is the prism through which they view any paradigm shifts that come their way.

Quote:
I'm not saying he's gonna refer to himself as Kal El all the time...but he's not gonna act like Kal El isnt the name he was born with, and he's not gonna go around correcting his friends when they DO call him Kal El. Kal El IS WHO he is, whether its his primary name or not.
I agree, Clark would never forsake or deny the name Kal-El. In a professional superhero setting, I personally would share that name with my colleagues before sharing the name Clark Kent.

When you say Kal-El is WHO he is, it's the same as saying Superman is WHO he is. These are all true statements, but they're not useful for identifying the shades of identity. When I talk to myself, I can't call myself two separate names. One name logically has to be what I think of myself as, and the other is something I attach to some part of my life, however large it may be. I may even introduce myself by my birth name that I didn't grow up with in certain circumstances, but what does my wife call me? What does my mother call me? The people who I keep closest, how do I introduce myself to them?

Can you imagine Lois calling him "Kal-El?"

It's not because he's not Kal-El, it's because that aspect of identity isn't the one that's closest to his heart. There's a lot of things to be said about his alien name and how it relates to his identity, but they can't be the same exact things that can be said for his human name, or his superhero name, or else it all becomes rather pointless.

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