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Old 07-18-2011, 03:48 PM   #51
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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I dont agree with that at all. Batman Begins is way more comic booky than the Dark Knight.

I maintain that Batman Begins is the better Batman movie but the Dark Knight is a better movie.

I love both those films but I think Batman Begins is more fun to watch, the Dark Knight amps up the seriousness.
Precisely. The film nerd in me adores The Dark Knight, but I love Batman Begins for its loyalty and entertainment factor.

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Old 07-18-2011, 03:50 PM   #52
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Precisely. The film nerd in me adores The Dark Knight, but I love Batman Begins for its loyalty and entertainment factor.
Same here mate, tbh depending on my mood I tend to always prefer one to the other but they're both amazing films.

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Old 07-18-2011, 03:54 PM   #53
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

The thing is as an aspiring screenwriter both films present qualities that are worth admiring, since there's different aspects they bring to the table.

Personally I'd have liked to see Goyer contribute to the script for The Dark Knight Rises just so that it bookends the trilogy nicely, but I guess he was more needed for The Man of Steel.

That being said, I'll admit most of Goyer's work outside of Batman Begins, Blade and Dark City isn't worth mentioning.

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Old 07-18-2011, 03:56 PM   #54
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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The thing is as an aspiring screenwriter both films present qualities that are worth admiring, since there's different aspects they bring to the table.

Personally I'd have liked to see Goyer contribute to the script for The Dark Knight Rises just so that it bookends the trilogy nicely, but I guess he was more needed for The Man of Steel.

That being said, I'll admit most of Goyer's work outside of Batman Begins, Blade and Dark City isn't worth mentioning.
I like both those films and the first Blade is the best one.

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Old 07-18-2011, 04:12 PM   #55
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Blade, Blade II and Dark City were very well written, though admittedly Blade and Blade II haven't aged very well.

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Old 07-18-2011, 04:20 PM   #56
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Blade, Blade II and Dark City were very well written, though admittedly Blade and Blade II haven't aged very well.
Well I dont really care much for Blade II but I still like the first Blade. I haven't seen Dark City for years so you might be right.

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Old 07-18-2011, 05:54 PM   #57
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Dark City is amazing. It's aged fine.

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Old 07-18-2011, 05:56 PM   #58
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

It has indeed. I don't think the Blade series has. Just like the first Spiderman film. These films just feel off now.

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Old 07-18-2011, 05:57 PM   #59
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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I could have enjoyed Batman begins a lot if Goyer hadn't put the cheese out there, and those pretentious "with great power"-wannabe morals (why do we fall, it's what I doooooo, etc). Some scene have terrible dialogue, like the one with little Bruce and his father on the monorail. Let alone the one-liners. That destroyed Batman begins's so-called seriousness for me.

In TDK he was barely involved, and it showed.
As producer, writer and director, Nolan is responsible for every line. Heís under no obligation to use any clunky dialogue that Goyer might have come up with.

On movies with multiple writers, itís very hard to determine who contributed what. The best you can do is try to spot trends over several films. So... compare Nolanís work against Goyerís (separate) stuff - and see where the quality has a tendency to follow.

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Old 07-18-2011, 06:00 PM   #60
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Dark City is amazing. It's aged fine.
Goyer was (only) one of three writers on that movie, no?

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Old 07-18-2011, 06:09 PM   #61
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Goyer was brought into Dark City by New Line to "make it less weird."

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Old 07-18-2011, 06:30 PM   #62
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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He was an integral part of Begins but had very little involvement in TDK and TDKR.
Other than co creating the storylines...

He may not be writing the dialogue, but they are still partly his 'inventions' with Nolan, if you will.

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I did like 'why do we fall' and the callback from Alfred was great.
I know some people find parts of BB cheesy or forced, but i'd completely disagree. It's lines like the 'why do we fall' thing that gave the film more heart than TDK IMO.

At no point in TDK do I feel emotional. The whole film has you intrigued in this psychological and philosophical way that almost makes you detatch from the characters. Even when Rachel dies, you don't really feel the weight of her death... just the weight of what it sets into motion, like it's a move in a game of chess.

In BB, there were a lot more instances in which I could actually see the main characters on an emotional level.

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Old 07-18-2011, 08:40 PM   #63
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Other than co creating the storylines...

He may not be writing the dialogue, but they are still partly his 'inventions' with Nolan, if you will.



I know some people find parts of BB cheesy or forced, but i'd completely disagree. It's lines like the 'why do we fall' thing that gave the film more heart than TDK IMO.

At no point in TDK do I feel emotional. The whole film has you intrigued in this psychological and philosophical way that almost makes you detatch from the characters. Even when Rachel dies, you don't really feel the weight of her death... just the weight of what it sets into motion, like it's a move in a game of chess.

In BB, there were a lot more instances in which I could actually see the main characters on an emotional level.
Yeah, I was actually talking to someone about this a while back. I was saying how Nolan is an incredible director however I dont think I have ever felt emotionally involved watching any of his movies. Even when Rachel died I didn't give a crap, good riddance I'll say. Anyway, Nolan's movies are very Cerebral. However as far as being Visceral, I feel Snyder does a better job.

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Old 07-18-2011, 08:44 PM   #64
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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At no point in TDK do I feel emotional. The whole film has you intrigued in this psychological and philosophical way that almost makes you detatch from the characters. Even when Rachel dies, you don't really feel the weight of her death... just the weight of what it sets into motion, like it's a move in a game of chess.
I've been saying this for a good while because the level of emotion is one of my few worries for Man of Steel.
I want to care about Superman and have an emotional reaction if he's in trouble, or succeeding.

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Old 07-18-2011, 09:00 PM   #65
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Other than co creating the storylines...

At no point in TDK do I feel emotional. The whole film has you intrigued in this psychological and philosophical way that almost makes you detatch from the characters. Even when Rachel dies, you don't really feel the weight of her death... just the weight of what it sets into motion, like it's a move in a game of chess.
I agree with this. TDK is a great film but I'm not emotionally invested in alot of it. Harvey and Gordon gave it heart but I never cared when that annoying Rachel character died, despite a far better actress playing the role. I love it for the plot driven, well acted film that it is but it's mostly pretty cold and thats fine because it still works.

I think that Superman should have way more heart and be a far more sentimental film than TDK.

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Old 07-18-2011, 09:10 PM   #66
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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I agree with this. TDK is a great film but I'm not emotionally invested in alot of it. Harvey and Gordon gave it heart but I never cared when that annoying Rachel character died, despite a far better actress playing the role. I love it for the plot driven, well acted film that it is but it's mostly pretty cold and thats fine because it still works.

I think that Superman should have way more heart and be a far more sentimental film than TDK.
Say this on the Bat-forums, and they'll kill you before breakfast!

I agree though. The only thing that makes me emotional in TDK is just seeing poor Heath

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Old 07-18-2011, 10:40 PM   #67
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Let's not forget that despite the critical success that the Nolans and Goyer helped bring to the current Batman franchise, that they did add/change/modify certain things of the Batman canon; so we should expect the same for Superman as well.

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Batman ever having studied under Ra's prior before becoming Batman; Joker's white face paint was self induced, along with his smile, and his origins had nothing to do with Batman, Harvey was supposedly great friends with Bruce in the comics but not so much in the film...

So my point is that, I hope that we're all ready for the changes that they'll bring to the well known canon.

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Old 07-18-2011, 11:28 PM   #68
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Let's not forget that despite the critical success that the Nolans and Goyer helped bring to the current Batman franchise, that they did add/change/modify certain things of the Batman canon; so we should expect the same for Superman as well.

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Batman ever having studied under Ra's prior before becoming Batman; Joker's white face paint was self induced, along with his smile, and his origins had nothing to do with Batman, Harvey was supposedly great friends with Bruce in the comics but not so much in the film...

So my point is that, I hope that we're all ready for the changes that they'll bring to the well known canon.
I'm totally cool with that. As long as it makes for good story telling, it's all good.

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Old 07-19-2011, 01:06 AM   #69
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Let's not forget that despite the critical success that the Nolans and Goyer helped bring to the current Batman franchise, that they did add/change/modify certain things of the Batman canon; so we should expect the same for Superman as well.

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Batman ever having studied under Ra's prior before becoming Batman; Joker's white face paint was self induced, along with his smile, and his origins had nothing to do with Batman, Harvey was supposedly great friends with Bruce in the comics but not so much in the film...

So my point is that, I hope that we're all ready for the changes that they'll bring to the well known canon.
The one about Harvey really depends on who is writing the story. In modern continuity Harvey had a relationship with Batman, and looked down upon Bruce. Pretty much the same relationship they had in TDK. It's been that way since Year One, and that relationship was carried over to Long Halloween. The only exception I can think of was the animated series. As for the rest of the changes, most of those were pulled off fine. Joker's changes were mostly superficial. He was still pretty much the same character he was in the comics. In the case of Ra's I actually thought it was an improvement on Bruce's origin. If these type of changes are the worst we have to worry about then I'd say Superman is in good hands.

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Old 07-19-2011, 03:36 AM   #70
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

It sounds as if Goyer did the first past, Jonah did the re-write, and now Snyder is having his boy Johnstad re-write Jonah Nolan.

Frankly, I'd have trusted in the team that gave us Batman Begins and Dark Knight rather than continuing to tweak something.

Writing is one of those things you can screw up with too many people doing it...

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Old 07-19-2011, 03:41 AM   #71
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

I think the script will be fine ad long as Berlanti and his Green Lantern writing team don't touch Superman with their hack hands.

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Old 07-19-2011, 04:08 AM   #72
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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It sounds as if Goyer did the first past, Jonah did the re-write, and now Snyder is having his boy Johnstad re-write Jonah Nolan.

Frankly, I'd have trusted in the team that gave us Batman Begins and Dark Knight rather than continuing to tweak something.

Writing is one of those things you can screw up with too many people doing it...
Well every Batman filmm has had 3 writers. Just be thankful they didn't go with four different writers writing different sections of the script *cough* Green Lantern *cough* .

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Old 07-19-2011, 05:32 AM   #73
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Hopefully the rewrites is done by the time the movie stars filming.

I just don't like the idea of tweaking the script while the movie is shooting, although the script for X-Men: First Class was tweaked during filming and it turned out well, but I just want to be on the safe side and hoping that the re-writes is done before Man of Steel starts filming.


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Old 07-19-2011, 03:09 PM   #74
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Maybe they're tweaking action sequences. :P

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Old 07-19-2011, 03:10 PM   #75
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Maybe they're tweaking action sequences. :P
That would be awesome

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