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Old 07-19-2011, 03:14 PM   #76
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Yes, it would be. I can't wait for this movie. Superman finally fighting something. No more teases. I loved Smallville, but c'mon, it was a lot of teases with the fight scenes. Hopefully we see some serious destruction in this film. That'd make me happy. I think Snyder will give me my favorite CBM... Really hoping.

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Old 07-19-2011, 03:14 PM   #77
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

I think it's them tweaking the action scenes and also having Johnstad on set to do the day by day rewrites.

To be honest unless Goyer was gonna be an EP on the film and had a clear schedule there was definitely going to be someone doing a rewrite of the film.

With Nolan I sense he does the rewrites and rejigs himself on set but with Snyder it's a different kettle of fish.

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Old 07-19-2011, 03:31 PM   #78
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Goyer writes a decent script, and just needs little issues ironed out sometimes. I see nothing wrong with this.

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Old 07-19-2011, 03:33 PM   #79
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Goyer writes a decent script, and just needs little issues ironed out sometimes. I see nothing wrong with this.
Agreed

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Old 07-19-2011, 03:42 PM   #80
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Agreed

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Thanks, ya a bit of a slow time on Superman news. Big fan in search of Lex, Perry, and Jimmy casting. Not much on those roles so wonder if they are in film at all.

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Old 07-19-2011, 04:38 PM   #81
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Scripts are always being tweeked on set. As long as they aren't writing the scripts on set like they do the Iron Man films things should turn out fine.

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Old 07-19-2011, 04:44 PM   #82
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

That actually worked out quite well. To be honest if I'm doing an action film that needs to be high on charisma and just needs a good spine, improv is a great tool.

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Old 07-19-2011, 04:48 PM   #83
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

I thought that Iron Man 2 was terrible and Iron Man was a solid film but it would have been better had they not wrote the script on set.

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Old 07-19-2011, 04:51 PM   #84
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

I thought Iron Man was great. Iron Man 2 actually had a script penned by Justin Theroux which was put in place but didn't work too well. I'd actually like to see someone do a fan-edit of the two films and make them into one.

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Old 07-20-2011, 01:28 AM   #85
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Scripts are always being tweeked on set. As long as they aren't writing the scripts on set like they do the Iron Man films things should turn out fine.

Exactly. I'm glad Jonah is involved and Johnstad's script for The Last Photograph is said to be great.

This shouldn't surprise anyone that Goyers MOS script will need some polishing from the story him and Nolan came up with.

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Old 07-20-2011, 08:23 AM   #86
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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I think Goyer's work is good.

Call me crazy but I like those cheesy one liners, they're fun and make me smile. Not saying I'd want them all over a film but they're good here and there.
"Can you drive stick." A piece of comedy that's destined to be carved on the collective memory of humour.

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The Dark Knight's dialogue was very good. It's not only memorable in terms of flowing well but there's some stuff in there that resonates quite a lot.
I agree. I can't compare the wonderful way Joker, for example, explained his ideology versus those in-a-nutshell sentences Goyer used in BB to explain things. "The training is nothing!" Really? That's why you have a ninja sect that spends its whole life training?

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Precisely. The film nerd in me adores The Dark Knight, but I love Batman Begins for its loyalty and entertainment factor.
Honest question: what do you mjean by 'loyalty'?



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As producer, writer and director, Nolan is responsible for every line. He’s under no obligation to use any clunky dialogue that Goyer might have come up with.
I absolutely blame Nolan too.




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I never cared when that annoying Rachel character died, despite a far better actress playing the role.
You have said it. Despite of the actress, Rachel character was just annoying. Don't know if I have to thank Goyer for that too.

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Old 07-20-2011, 08:42 AM   #87
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

You forgot "The will is everything!" line right after. It makes sense. The training means nothing when there is no will to train in the first place.

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Old 07-20-2011, 08:47 AM   #88
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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You forgot "The will is everything!" line right after. It makes sense. The training means nothing when there is no will to train in the first place.
Then let's make a ninja sect that is about how to have will. I mean, that is everything. We don't want a sect that spends its time doing literally nothing.

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Old 07-20-2011, 09:41 AM   #89
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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"Can you drive stick." A piece of comedy that's destined to be carved on the collective memory of humour.
I'm not following your complaint. Are you suggesting that a much funnier, roll-in-the-aisles hysterical joke would have been more appropriate for the scene... or that a quick one-liner in any form should have been avoided?

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...I can't compare the wonderful way Joker, for example, explained his ideology versus those in-a-nutshell sentences Goyer used in BB to explain things. "The training is nothing!" Really? That's why you have a ninja sect that spends its whole life training?
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Then let's make a ninja sect that is about how to have will. I mean, that is everything. We don't want a sect that spends its time doing literally nothing.
This criticism strikes me as a tad pedantic. Surely you allow that a writer can sometimes employ a poetic, non-literal phrase to underscore a particular idea or theme?

In fact, the phrase in BB wasn’t all that poetic or abstract. Many top athletes, for example, have comparable skill levels. But what distinguishes the exceptional champions is often described as a special drive, determination, resolve – or “will.”

It might also be an allusion to Nietzsche’s “will to power” concept.

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Old 07-20-2011, 09:47 AM   #90
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

You know I got so into thinking about the differences in the script between BB and TDK that I watched TDK and then BB for comparison.

And I actually think I'm more fond of Goyer's style and script when you look at them side by side.

I mean, I understand that TDK is the bigger film, a social commentary, a deep look at the nature of humanity, of heroism, of sanity. And it's dialogue reflects that, almost like the characters are just visual representations of facets of philosophy being discussed. And it's also got some great, well thought out and exciting action scenes with clever twists, like the 'clowns are the hostages' bit.

And while the characters themselves are very well developed, the relationships between them are not (other than Joker and Batman), because of the emotion that's missing.

For example:

- Gordon and Batman's relationship in BB feels like it has an emotional history because of his simple words of comfort after tje death of his parents.
- Alfred's because of the single repetition of the line 'you haven't given up on me yet, have you' 'never' and him risking his life to save Bruce in the fire.
- Ducard for effectively saving him from himself - and then revealing himself to be behind the economic decline that lead to his parents death by robbery.
- Fox for being an old friend of his fathers
- Heck, even Rachel's emotional connection with Bruce is repeatedly referenced in that little spear head they found when they were kids.

And Thomas Wayne comes across as the most wonderful father, which really makes me feel Bruce's tragedy a lot more than I ever had. I mean I genuinely wished he didn't die. Just little touches like the stethoscope bring it back throughout the film.

I can't think of anything like that in TDK, and I actually think it's a bit lacking now because of that.

I just hope that what we end up with in MOS is a good, comic book relevant basis, with a light hearted and emotionally provokative tone from Goyer, that has now been tweaked by JN to have more intelligence and depth in the dialogue, and is finally now being tweaked by Snyder's main man for the weight of the script during action sequences.

That sounds like a winning combo.

Also, just wanted to add that my fave comedy line from any superhero movie is officially this:

'Well, you know how it is, Mr Fox. You're out at night, looking for kicks, someone's passing around the weaponized hallucinogens...'


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Old 07-20-2011, 10:19 AM   #91
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

The strange thing about the Rachel character is, (while I agree she is pretty worthless character in both movies) despite Maggie being a better actress than Katie, I think I would have felt worse for Rachel and Bruce if she had died in the first film. In Batman Begins, you got more of a sense of their bond and their complicated love story. In TDK, Rachel just kind of acted like she despised him the whole time.

When she died, I'm not kidding here, I started laughing. It was like the bomb wanted her to shut up so badly it blew itself up prematurely.

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Old 07-20-2011, 11:04 AM   #92
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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I thought that Iron Man 2 was terrible and Iron Man was a solid film but it would have been better had they not wrote the script on set.
They got lucky with Iron Man one and the same formula didn't work for the sequel and it really did show that they tried winging it. The thing is Iron Man had a solid opening and could have had an interesting villain had they not shoehorned the avengers stuff in there.

I think with the origin movies you have a bit of leeway because there is a "formula" for them. With this script they've been saying there has been problems for over a year now, I would imagin they have had plenty of time to deal with it unless they've been staring at the pages.

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Old 07-20-2011, 11:08 AM   #93
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

i understand what you mean about not being able to care about Rachel in tdk, but honestly i felt bad for Harvey, more than Bruce, which explains how harvey came to be, but.......i just hope that sort of thing doesnt happen in MOS, i wanna care and feel the most for supes, not an enemy in the making

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Old 07-20-2011, 11:56 AM   #94
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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i understand what you mean about not being able to care about Rachel in tdk, but honestly i felt bad for Harvey, more than Bruce, which explains how harvey came to be, but.......i just hope that sort of thing doesnt happen in MOS, i wanna care and feel the most for supes, not an enemy in the making
Yeah, I think that's one of the flaws in TDK (that no one seems to want to admit, although people will lash out at BB for every little thing that bothered them, for some reason). Batman is in the movie as much as everyone else and Bale does a great job with the character, but it's almost as if they weren't concerned if you cared about him or not. I guess they were trying to show Batman becoming more controlled and distant in his war on crime (like he is in the comics) but I think things like that work better in a comic book than in a movie. Your hero needs some emotional weight beyond just being angry at the villain. I think they should have shown more of that.

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Old 07-20-2011, 06:10 PM   #95
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Then let's make a ninja sect that is about how to have will. I mean, that is everything. We don't want a sect that spends its time doing literally nothing.

Your also forgetting that perhaps Ra's was trying to train Bruce to become something more than the average foot soldier ninja that is part of his League?

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Old 07-20-2011, 06:17 PM   #96
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Goyer is still working on MOS. I suspect if anyone else is touching up his script, he is still involved.

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Old 07-20-2011, 06:22 PM   #97
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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The strange thing about the Rachel character is, (while I agree she is pretty worthless character in both movies) despite Maggie being a better actress than Katie, I think I would have felt worse for Rachel and Bruce if she had died in the first film. In Batman Begins, you got more of a sense of their bond and their complicated love story. In TDK, Rachel just kind of acted like she despised him the whole time.

When she died, I'm not kidding here, I started laughing. It was like the bomb wanted her to shut up so badly it blew itself up prematurely.


And I think I would have cared more too... in fact I kind of wish that she had died in the first film, because I really hated her by the end of it.

That last scene just had me yelling at the screen 'You *****!'

But i'd still rather have Goyer writing Lois Lane than Nolan. Especially with Snyder directing, and his clear approval of strong and sexy women.

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Old 07-20-2011, 10:24 PM   #98
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Yeah, I think that's one of the flaws in TDK (that no one seems to want to admit, although people will lash out at BB for every little thing that bothered them, for some reason). Batman is in the movie as much as everyone else and Bale does a great job with the character, but it's almost as if they weren't concerned if you cared about him or not. I guess they were trying to show Batman becoming more controlled and distant in his war on crime (like he is in the comics) but I think things like that work better in a comic book than in a movie. Your hero needs some emotional weight beyond just being angry at the villain. I think they should have shown more of that.
yea, i dont even go in there, but if tdkr is better than tdk, you can bet theyll be bashing tdk lol...anyway i believe we will be getting a supes we care about, just by what Nolan had said in the beginning, i think before Synder was even onboard, but he said something along the lines that the problem is that people have to care about him again, so im sure he gets it

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Old 07-20-2011, 10:51 PM   #99
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

I don't know if you'd throw it in the "cheesy", "cringey", "great" or "forgettable" category, but my favorite line out of both of those movies is:

(To Joker) "Then you're gonna' love me."

How that applies to this conversation I have no idea, but figured I'd throw it out there.

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Old 07-21-2011, 12:10 AM   #100
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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I'm not following your complaint. Are you suggesting that a much funnier, roll-in-the-aisles hysterical joke would have been more appropriate for the scene... or that a quick one-liner in any form should have been avoided?
In that scene no humour was needed whatsoever. But it was like Goyer felt he had to put some joke every x seconds. And, naturally, such formula felt forced.

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This criticism strikes me as a tad pedantic. Surely you allow that a writer can sometimes employ a poetic, non-literal phrase to underscore a particular idea or theme?

In fact, the phrase in BB wasn’t all that poetic or abstract. Many top athletes, for example, have comparable skill levels. But what distinguishes the exceptional champions is often described as a special drive, determination, resolve – or “will.”
I'm sure those athletes value their training and are aware that their will without the training wouldn't accomplish everything they want.

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It might also be an allusion to Nietzsche’s “will to power” concept.
You quote Nietsche for this? Don't you think it's a little... what was the word you used...?



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Your also forgetting that perhaps Ra's was trying to train Bruce to become something more than the average foot soldier ninja that is part of his League?
Yes, but the training is a lot. But yes, he had to sound poetric above all.

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