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Old 07-21-2011, 03:20 AM   #101
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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In that scene no humour was needed whatsoever. But it was like Goyer felt he had to put some joke every x seconds. And, naturally, such formula felt forced.
See, the only joke I felt sounded forced was the 'Nice Coat' line...

I mean, I know it's there to indicate how much he's changed since he first gave that hobo his coat, but it just comes off sounding weird from Batman.

The rest of them I think are very well placed and effective.

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:40 AM   #102
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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See, the only joke I felt sounded forced was the 'Nice Coat' line...

I mean, I know it's there to indicate how much he's changed since he first gave that hobo his coat, but it just comes off sounding weird from Batman.

The rest of them I think are very well placed and effective.
Yeah, I watched BB a couple weeks ago and that line in particular definitely seemed awkward.

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Old 07-21-2011, 09:47 AM   #103
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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In that scene no humour was needed whatsoever.
Puns and one-liners are something of a staple in many action movies – and they’re certainly not uncommon to the superhero genre. Imo, they’re over-used and if that’s your general complaint then I’m with you. But you seem to single out the “Can you drive stick?” line as especially cringe-worthy. In the grand scheme, I don’t think it is. Basically, you can take or leave its humor; the line, itself, efficiently conveys (in four words) important information: Batman expects Gordon to drive the Tumbler.

In thinking about bad one-liners, I’d put “Bad vibrations?” from STM or any number of “jokes” from BF or B&R well ahead of anything uttered in BB.

Generally, I think Nolan was getting his footing with BB and he resorted to the one-liners as safe, genre expectation. By TDK, he was much more assured and the “jokes” were dialed back and more context appropriate.

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But it was like Goyer felt he had to put some joke every x seconds. And, naturally, such formula felt forced.
Again, I’m not sure how you can categorically single out Goyer for blame. For all we know, he was the voice of restraint and it was Nolan (or maybe the studio) who wanted to lighten things up in spots.

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You quote Nietsche for this? Don't you think it's a little... what was the word you used...?
Apart from the phrase (which has become a simple term of reference), I didn’t quote Nietzsche. Nor did Nolan. But there seems to be more than a coincidental connection between Ducard’s “lesson” to Bruce and the Nietzschian philosophy that supposedly inspired the Nazis. In other words, the allusion denotes a certain degree of intelligence with regard to themes. And if someone wanted to argue that BB was guilty of poor writing, this wouldn't be the best example to cite.

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Old 07-21-2011, 10:02 AM   #104
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Puns and one-liners are something of a staple in many action movies – and they’re certainly not uncommon to the superhero genre. Imo, they’re over-used and if that’s your general complaint then I’m with you. But you seem to single out the “Can you drive stick?” line as especially cringe-worthy. In the grand scheme, I don’t think it is. Basically, you can take or leave its humor; the line, itself, efficiently conveys (in four words) important information: Batman expects Gordon to drive the Tumbler.
Well, that was just an example. Of course, in the grand scheme there were lots of worse moments than that. But yes, the fact that every superhero movie has one-liners doesn't make them a good idea.

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Generally, I think Nolan was getting his footing with BB and he resorted to the one-liners as safe, genre expectation. By TDK, he was much more assured and the “jokes” were dialed back and more context appropriate.
One-liners as a way to shjake off your insecurities. Never thought of them that way.

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Again, I’m not sure how you can categorically single out Goyer for blame. For all we know, he was the voice of restraint and it was Nolan (or maybe the studio) who wanted to lighten things up in spots.
You might be righjt. But when Goyer was not writing the dialogues in TDK and the cringe-worthy one-liners were gone, I just thought he might have been the cause.

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Apart from the phrase (which has become a simple term of reference), I didn’t quote Nietzsche. Nor did Nolan. But there seems to be more than a coincidental connection between Ducard’s “lesson” to Bruce and the Nietzschian philosophy that supposedly inspired the Nazis. In other words, the allusion denotes a certain degree of intelligence with regard to themes. And if someone wanted to argue that BB was guilty of poor writing, this wouldn't be the best example to cite.
I'm sure people who have never read Nietzsche already know about the power of will. The movie although tried to sound pompous and intelligent and it was a piece of obvious cliché writing. Like the 'why do we fall' line. Sure, we all know we must learn from our mistakes.

But yes, I think I mentioned the scene of little Bruce and the Wayne on the monorail scene as poor writing.

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Old 07-21-2011, 07:10 PM   #105
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Did anyone else notice on the news release regarding MOS release date being pushed back to Summer 2013, that it stated the script is written by David Goyer AND Jonathan Nolan?

I like it!

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Old 07-21-2011, 07:31 PM   #106
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Jonah had a pass at this thing a while ago and essentially saved the project. I thought this was common knowledge. If it weren't for him, this thing would've been in big trouble. The fact that Johnstad is contributing is a big positive as well.

Good stuff all around. They want to get it right.

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Old 07-22-2011, 01:30 AM   #107
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Jonah had a pass at this thing a while ago and essentially saved the project. I thought this was common knowledge. If it weren't for him, this thing would've been in big trouble. The fact that Johnstad is contributing is a big positive as well.

Good stuff all around. They want to get it right.

I agree Gill. By pushing the release date back to summer 2013, MOS can be a true summer tentpole now. No rushing this baby.

They all want to make sure they get this puppy done right. The big cheese Chris Nolan, should be available for the 2nd half of principal shooting for MOS and he should be available to oversee the post work and editing process.

Johnstad's script for The Last Photograph is said to be very good by the way.

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Old 07-22-2011, 06:35 AM   #108
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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The big cheese Chris Nolan, should be available for the 2nd half of principal shooting for MOS and he should be available to oversee the post work and editing process.
Yes, just enough time so that if the movie succeeds, he will get all the praise, and if it fails, it's all Snyder's fault

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Old 07-22-2011, 08:23 AM   #109
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Jonah had a pass at this thing a while ago and essentially saved the project. I thought this was common knowledge. If it weren't for him, this thing would've been in big trouble. The fact that Johnstad is contributing is a big positive as well.

Good stuff all around. They want to get it right.
Really? It’s the first I’ve heard about it.

It’s not at all surprising that the younger Nolan might have consulted/brainstormed on the MOS script with his brother and Goyer. But earning a co-writer’s credit – according to the WGA – requires a significant contribution. I’m skeptical that J. Nolan was involved to that degree.

I’d love to be proven wrong, though. Having J. Nolan on board would be a definite plus.

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Old 07-22-2011, 08:48 AM   #110
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Yes, just enough time so that if the movie succeeds, he will get all the praise, and if it fails, it's all Snyder's fault
It'll be the exact same principal with the script.

If it's bad, Goyer will be blamed. If it's good it'll be because of J Nolan's contribution.

Apparently the sun shines out of the Nolan's behinds

Personally, if this movie rocks as much as I think it will, I'm gonna be thinking the sun shines out of Snyder and Goyers

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Old 07-22-2011, 09:04 AM   #111
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

every time i hear the "have a nice trip, see you next fall" line from tdk i think stfffuuuu

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Old 07-22-2011, 10:02 AM   #112
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Cheesy one-liners and puns are great when balanced and well written. Something both BB and TDK do for me. The master of great cheesy one-liners though is James Cameron, I love it.

They belong in movies like this. I almost hate comic-book movies that are no fun just as much as those who are too silly. Balance is the key.

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Old 07-22-2011, 10:08 AM   #113
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

The masters of cheesy one liners are the writers of CSI Miami. More concretely whoever is responsible for the Horatio Caine character...

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Old 07-22-2011, 10:13 AM   #114
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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every time i hear the "have a nice trip, see you next fall" line from tdk i think stfffuuuu
I've seen the movie several times; but I don't recall that line. Can you refresh my memory with a scene description?

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Old 07-22-2011, 10:31 AM   #115
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

Folks, we just need to succumb to the fact that every line in every movie ever made was cringeworthy.

The Internet told me so.

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Old 07-22-2011, 11:42 AM   #116
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Really? It’s the first I’ve heard about it.

It’s not at all surprising that the younger Nolan might have consulted/brainstormed on the MOS script with his brother and Goyer. But earning a co-writer’s credit – according to the WGA – requires a significant contribution. I’m skeptical that J. Nolan was involved to that degree.

I’d love to be proven wrong, though. Having J. Nolan on board would be a definite plus.
Jonah has been added as a co-writer, in the press announcement about the release date change.

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Old 07-22-2011, 12:00 PM   #117
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Jonah has been added as a co-writer, in the press announcement about the release date change.
Link?

The article on the front page reprints the listed credits from ComingSoon.net. And ComingSoon.net offers no link to a studio press release. Are they reliable?

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Old 07-22-2011, 12:11 PM   #118
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Link?

The article on the front page reprints the listed credits from ComingSoon.net. And ComingSoon.net offers no link to a studio press release. Are they reliable?
All the movie sites are posting the same little blurb, so I'm assuming WB sent them the necessary information. It's the first time Jonah has ever been "officially" associated with the project.

The likes of SHH/CS (and others) are all fairly reputable. I'd trust it for now.

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Old 07-22-2011, 01:18 PM   #119
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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All the movie sites are posting the same little blurb, so I'm assuming WB sent them the necessary information. It's the first time Jonah has ever been "officially" associated with the project.

The likes of SHH/CS (and others) are all fairly reputable. I'd trust it for now.
Hmmm.

I believe it was Variety that broke the story of MOS’s new release date - via a Tweet and subsequently confirmed in an article last Thursday. Perfect chance to update readers on the additional fact that J. Nolan is now a credited co-writer.

Instead, it reported that: “David Goyer penned the script and developed the story with Christopher Nolan, who has kept plot details under wraps. Charles Roven will produce along with Emma Thomas, Nolan and Deborah Snyder. Thomas Tull will exec produce for legendary and Lloyd Philips will also exec produce."

(The article is obscured by a funky, “grey screen” pay wall. But it’s readable. http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118040224 )

Like I said, I’d be more than pleased if J. Nolan was involved enough to warrant a co-screenwriting credit. I’m just skeptical that he is.


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Old 07-22-2011, 01:31 PM   #120
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Cheesy one-liners and puns are great when balanced and well written. Something both BB and TDK do for me. The master of great cheesy one-liners though is James Cameron, I love it.

They belong in movies like this. I almost hate comic-book movies that are no fun just as much as those who are too silly. Balance is the key.
Balance is they key if you consider that a bad misplaced one-oliner can ruin a great scene.





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Yes, just enough time so that if the movie succeeds, he will get all the praise, and if it fails, it's all Snyder's fault
I have nothing but sympathy for this poor man. Just because Nolan movies are better he has to be crucified to expiate other directors' sins.

Anyways, the important thing in this case wouldn't be if the movie's good or bad but why it's good or bad. Then we might give the credit where it's due.

I just hope people are compassionate enough so no one sticks a spear into his side while he's still dying.




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It'll be the exact same principal with the script.

If it's bad, Goyer will be blamed. If it's good it'll be because of J Nolan's contribution.
Hollywood is cerainly full of martyrs. So he wrote some awful one-liners. I confess I loathe him for that. But god, please let him survive this agony of being criticized by people because Jonah Nolan wrote better dialogues ofor BB sequel.

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Old 07-22-2011, 03:07 PM   #121
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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Really? It’s the first I’ve heard about it.

It’s not at all surprising that the younger Nolan might have consulted/brainstormed on the MOS script with his brother and Goyer. But earning a co-writer’s credit – according to the WGA – requires a significant contribution. I’m skeptical that J. Nolan was involved to that degree.

I’d love to be proven wrong, though. Having J. Nolan on board would be a definite plus.

He "significantly" saved the project, and thus is now officially a co-writer. As a matter of fact, he was officially a co-writer a long time ago when Goyer was beating his head against the wall trying to figure out the 3rd act.

It's had its problems. But again, this is absolutely fantastic news that Johnstad is getting in on this. Between him and Jonah, I have no doubt this will be a fantastic film.

Someone else mentioned that the new release date will give Chris more time to participate and help oversee the finished product. This is absolutely true. Again, more great news. How people aren't doing backflips and cartwheels right now is beyond me. Between the stellar cast, the news of Johnstad helping to do some punch ups, and Chris being able to be a bit more involved, there's nothing but positive things happening with this project.

It's a good time to be a Superman fan. Now, let's just hope this place doesn't explode when they finally release a promo shot of the suit...

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Old 07-22-2011, 03:51 PM   #122
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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It's a good time to be a Superman fan. Now, let's just hope this place doesn't explode when they finally release a promo shot of the suit...
Why? That will be the best part when they have a costume without the trunks just to see everyone lose their minds

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Old 07-22-2011, 04:29 PM   #123
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He "significantly" saved the project, and thus is now officially a co-writer. As a matter of fact, he was officially a co-writer a long time ago when Goyer was beating his head against the wall trying to figure out the 3rd act.
Yes, I’m aware that this is the claim.

As it happens, I have been keeping tabs on most of the MOS updates. For instance, I heard about Connie Nielsen being rumored for the role of Lara – subsequently changed to a Julia Ormond rumor. So I’m more than just a casual observer.

Additionally, I’ve been concerned about Goyer as a solo writer on MOS. I’d be much happier if one (or both) of the Brothers Nolan was more deeply involved with the screenplay. So you could say that my antennae was especially sensitive to any hints that this might be the case. But as far as I could tell, both Nolans were firmly committed to TDKR.

Your personal assurance that J. Nolan has “significantly saved the project” is appreciated. But you could thoroughly vanquish the skepticism I still harbor with a link to a source like Variety or Deadline. Despite keeping tabs, I obviously missed the news.

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Old 07-24-2011, 10:31 AM   #124
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

It's Gill, he has been one of or most reliable sources since the Begins days, and never has lead us astray, he's been a good source with always reliable information.

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Old 07-24-2011, 11:34 AM   #125
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Default Re: Kurt Johnstad, Jonah Nolan involved with Man of Steel script?

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every time i hear the "have a nice trip, see you next fall" line from tdk i think stfffuuuu
When was this line said?

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