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Old 07-20-2011, 09:45 PM   #1
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Default Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

I do! i think the X-Men movies have that GLBT rights subtext in them thanks to Bryan Singer who is totally gay and knows about the comics as a metaphor on his sexuality, hiding and all that.

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Old 07-20-2011, 09:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

As a whole, I don't think that the movies, or comics, or cartoons, or any form of X-Men are specifically a metaphor on sexuality. However, it's relevant because the X-Men are symbolic for minorities in society that are shunned and oppressed simply for being different, and as such are feared and hated. That applies to blacks during the Civil Rights Era (and even women, Hispanics, Native Americans, or any other oppressed group), homosexuals in today's age, religious groups (Nazi Germany is directly showcased in X-Men lore).

I don't think the X-Men mythos targets one group specifically, but rather is a metaphor for the oppressed minority in general. There is a leaning towards homosexuality because that's what's relevant in today's society, and yes, Bryan Singer is gay himself. But I don't view these movies, or the comics, to be specific towards the homosexual plight.

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

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Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay View Post
As a whole, I don't think that the movies, or comics, or cartoons, or any form of X-Men are specifically a metaphor on sexuality. However, it's relevant because the X-Men are symbolic for minorities in society that are shunned and oppressed simply for being different, and as such are feared and hated. That applies to blacks during the Civil Rights Era (and even women, Hispanics, Native Americans, or any other oppressed group), homosexuals in today's age, religious groups (Nazi Germany is directly showcased in X-Men lore).

I don't think the X-Men mythos targets one group specifically, but rather is a metaphor for the oppressed minority in general. There is a leaning towards homosexuality because that's what's relevant in today's society, and yes, Bryan Singer is gay himself. But I don't view these movies, or the comics, to be specific towards the homosexual plight.
^This. Some the LGBT allusions might come out a little more obviously through quotes ("Have you tried not being a mutant?" and "Mutant and proud!" come to mind.). But it's not the only group they're trying to represent with mutants.

It also may have been a little more noticeable in XFC because of the romantic aspect of the movie, an element that was certainly intentional. And I'm not referring to Hank/Raven.


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Old 07-21-2011, 03:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

The first two absolutely are. It isn't a secret, Singer and McKellen have both talked about their personal connection to these characters because of their orientation.

That said, the X-Men have always been a place-holder for any kind of outcast, which I believe is part of their appeal.

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Old 07-21-2011, 04:36 AM   #5
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I do! i think the X-Men movies have that GLBT rights subtext in them thanks to Bryan Singer who is totally gay and knows about the comics as a metaphor on his sexuality, hiding and all that.
Hell yeah!

I'm gay so I can relate to the situation of the mutants. Especially the scene where Mystique told Beast that "we shouldn't be trying to fit in society, society should aspire to be more like us, mutant and Proud".

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Old 07-22-2011, 07:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

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I do! i think the X-Men movies have that GLBT rights subtext in them thanks to Bryan Singer who is totally gay and knows about the comics as a metaphor on his sexuality, hiding and all that.
Well, just for the record, it wasn't just Bryan Singer who nuanced the X-men as a gay metaphor. Writers have been doing it for years. Even in the days of Stan and Jack when they said people find out about their mutants gifts usually around puberty.

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Old 07-22-2011, 01:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

It's more about prejudice in general and a fight for equality. I don't think there's just one minority group you can point to.

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Old 07-22-2011, 01:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

^ Agreed.

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Old 07-22-2011, 02:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

Anyone find it a bit disturbing that this movie is about teaching equality but the only black character in the movie was killed off. Here's a movie that teaches equality, but is racist, like a lot of Hollywood films in that the black character is usually killed off! Here's the short list I can think of right now where this has happened.

Super 8 (the only two black characters)
Jurassic Park
Jurassic Park 3
The Shining
King Kong (1995)
X-Men Origins: Wolverine

Of course, X-Men: First Class!

That's all of what I can think of right now I know there's more a lot more.

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Old 07-22-2011, 04:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

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Anyone find it a bit disturbing that this movie is about teaching equality but the only black character in the movie was killed off. Here's a movie that teaches equality, but is racist, like a lot of Hollywood films in that the black character is usually killed off! Here's the short list I can think of right now where this has happened.

Super 8 (the only two black characters)
Jurassic Park
Jurassic Park 3
The Shining
King Kong (1995)
X-Men Origins: Wolverine

Of course, X-Men: First Class!

That's all of what I can think of right now I know there's more a lot more.
Can I also throw in that it'd be really nice to see some ASIAN characters in the X-verse? I don't know if there are many Asian characters to choose from in the comics but there's gotta be at least ONE. The only one I can remember from the film series is Striker's claw gal and the spikey guy in X3. Neither one is killed off first (I can't remember if spikes is killed at all) but the fact that I had to struggle to remember them is not a good thing.

I'm sure they will have many Asian characters in Wolverine as it takes place in Japan but I have a sinking feeling it will be one of those situations where the important characters are only half-Asian cuz Hollywood believes audiences can't handle a non-white non-black main character. :/

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Old 07-22-2011, 07:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

Jubilee (cameo through the entire main trilogy)
Lady Deathstrike (X2)
Psylocke (X-Men: The Last Stand)
Quill (X-Men: The Last Stand)
Agent Zero (X-Men Origins: Wolverine)

And I dont think Quill or Agent Zero are Asian in the comics.

I dont think there are many Asian characters to choose from in the X-Men world. Lady Deathstrike, Sunfire, Yukio, Mariko, and the rest of Wolverine's Japan run are about all I can think of.

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Old 07-23-2011, 03:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

Darwin was a nice guy and a natural born hero. His death was mourned by people who barely knew him and inspired bravery in those he left behind. It didn't feel racist to me.

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Old 07-23-2011, 06:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

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Hell yeah!

I'm gay so I can relate to the situation of the mutants. Especially the scene where Mystique told Beast that "we shouldn't be trying to fit in society, society should aspire to be more like us, mutant and Proud".
I really enjoyed First Class, but found that statement of Mystique's to be as bad as those who hate the mutants. Other side of the coin, granted, but just as racist.

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Old 07-24-2011, 05:01 AM   #14
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

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Can I also throw in that it'd be really nice to see some ASIAN characters in the X-verse? I don't know if there are many Asian characters to choose from in the comics but there's gotta be at least ONE. The only one I can remember from the film series is Striker's claw gal and the spikey guy in X3. Neither one is killed off first (I can't remember if spikes is killed at all) but the fact that I had to struggle to remember them is not a good thing.

I'm sure they will have many Asian characters in Wolverine as it takes place in Japan but I have a sinking feeling it will be one of those situations where the important characters are only half-Asian cuz Hollywood believes audiences can't handle a non-white non-black main character. :/
Lady Deathstrike was a cool character. I'd rather have one cool Asian characters than just throwing in characters like in X3. Hopefully The Wolverine will feature many Asian characters both action and non action ones.

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Old 07-25-2011, 04:14 AM   #15
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

Speaking of LGBT themes...
At SDCC Zack Stentz, a screenwriter for X-Men First Class, pretty much confirmed that the relationship between Erik and Charles is more than just bromance, referring to it as a "romantic tragedy". He also stated that if conflicting ideologies hadn't driven the two apart, they would be together, as in, involved.

Personally this was the impression I got from the film as well. I'm reeeeeally not into "slash" or what have you; I genuinely felt that the romantic angle of their relationship was intentional and well played in its subtlety.

Thoughts?

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Old 07-25-2011, 07:54 AM   #16
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

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Speaking of LGBT themes...
At SDCC Zack Stentz, a screenwriter for X-Men First Class, pretty much confirmed that the relationship between Erik and Charles is more than just bromance, referring to it as a "romantic tragedy". He also stated that if conflicting ideologies hadn't driven the two apart, they would be together, as in, involved.
Interesting. I wonder if they really had that intention when they started writing the script, or if they're being influenced by the general climate post-movie. Because the whole internet agrees that First Class was kind of a romantic tragedy, and that Charles and Erik were much more than just good friends.

Although, when you think about it, even before the movie was released, James gave an interview in which he talked about FC as a "love story". Maybe it was his own perception, or maybe they were really going for it.

I think it's wonderful. I wonder if they have this idea of addressing it at the second movie, kind of giving their bitter break-up at the beach some closure. At the end Charles was left completely broken, being abandoned by the people who probably he loved the most in life. I wonder if Erik will deal with his guilt and help Charles somehow.
At least that's what I'd like to see.

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Personally this was the impression I got from the film as well. I'm reeeeeally not into "slash" or what have you; I genuinely felt that the romantic angle of their relationship was intentional and well played in its subtlety.
I have no problems with slash - when I read fanfiction, the only think that bothers me is bad writing. I've been reading some wonderfully written stuff regarding their relationship, quite powerful, emotionally speaking.

I agree that in the film it was quite subtle and well done. We have to thank the actors for that, I think.

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Old 07-25-2011, 07:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

Homophobia is one of the biggest and most accepted forms for prejudice in this world. It is to today's audience what civil rights for blacks was to the very first X Men readers.

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Old 07-25-2011, 10:23 AM   #18
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Interesting. I wonder if they really had that intention when they started writing the script, or if they're being influenced by the general climate post-movie. Because the whole internet agrees that First Class was kind of a romantic tragedy, and that Charles and Erik were much more than just good friends.

Although, when you think about it, even before the movie was released, James gave an interview in which he talked about FC as a "love story". Maybe it was his own perception, or maybe they were really going for it.

I think it's wonderful. I wonder if they have this idea of addressing it at the second movie, kind of giving their bitter break-up at the beach some closure. At the end Charles was left completely broken, being abandoned by the people who probably he loved the most in life. I wonder if Erik will deal with his guilt and help Charles somehow.
At least that's what I'd like to see.


I have no problems with slash - when I read fanfiction, the only think that bothers me is bad writing. I've been reading some wonderfully written stuff regarding their relationship, quite powerful, emotionally speaking.

I agree that in the film it was quite subtle and well done. We have to thank the actors for that, I think.
I picture it as being intentional from the start, personally. I don't know anything about the comics but I've read enough articles by more dedicated fans than myself that suggest the romance is canon in most of the comics as well. I feel it makes things more tragic because the perspective I had settled on by the end is that they were quite aware that there were mutual feelings between them but they were kind of waiting, letting time be in charge of how it went. Erik's priority number 1 was revenge, Charles was number 2. I really believe that if Charles had been all "oh yeah screw humans I'm with you there", Erik would have kissed him right then and there. As it was I was actually pretty certain that there WAS going to be a kiss during that scene which was really what made me realize that this movie had been angling this the whole time.

I'm really not into slash at all (I still don't get why people pair up Sherlock and Watson, for example) and I'm also incredibly dense about subtext. So this movie's couple caught me by surprise.

Haha yeah James McAvoy has also stated that it's "a little bit of a mini-tragedy that Xavier and Magneto don't have sex, become married, and become best friends" which is perhaps even more telling. Fassbender has been particularly mum on the subject though as far as I can tell. I'd love director's commentary or even better McAvoy Fassbender commentary in the BR release. I think the two of them would have a field day with the UST in the movie.

Buuuut I don't think they could really address it directly in a movie, not yet. Sadly we still live in a society of far too many homophobes and the thought of two iconic male characters being romantically entwined would lose a huge chunk of the box office (especially from fanboys who seem the most defensive about it). I think what we'll get instead is the similar feeling from this movie, where it'll be so there you can practically touch it but still subtle enough that the denser people can walk away in denial. Either way they HAVE to address the fallout and the effect it has on both men and the fact that regardless they do still care about each other. Let's face it, the one thing lovers and haters of the film can all agree on was that the Erik/Charles stuff was brilliant. It'd be foolish to gloss over it in a sequel.

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Old 07-25-2011, 11:27 AM   #19
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"Have you tried..not being a mutant?"

God, the scenes with Bobby's parents in X2 are genius, but tragic.

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Old 07-25-2011, 01:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

I did not pick up on any romantic undertones between Xavier and Magneto in the least bit. I don't care who says what about what, that is not a part of my viewing of X-Men: First Class.

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Old 07-25-2011, 02:11 PM   #21
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I did not pick up on any romantic undertones between Xavier and Magneto in the least bit. I don't care who says what about what, that is not a part of my viewing of X-Men: First Class.
You don't believe the guy who wrote the screenplay?
that's kinda like being in denial about Dumbledore... :P

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Old 07-25-2011, 02:37 PM   #22
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It really represents all oppressed minority groups including (but not limited to) the glbt community. First class tried to emphasize this more so than the previous films, like when Hank says: "You didn't ask...so I didn't tell", it was a very tongue in cheek line but I thought it worked and was pretty damn funny.

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Old 07-25-2011, 02:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

Obviously, I don't have a problem with seeing actual gay relationships on screen, but when it comes to comic book movies, and comic books in general, the homoerotic themes have always been more effective when they've been more covert and, accordingly, more subversive.

Kind of like the classical Greek warriors that modern superheroes are pretty-much based on; the level of man-on-man love, in all its forms, is an integral part of that genre and mythology, but it's more fun when it is subtle rather than all Apollo-and-Midnighter "look at us, we're being edgy."

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Old 07-25-2011, 02:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

I honestly thought this as well, there's a lot of symbolism. Especially in X-Men First Class.
"They'll fear us...and that fear will turn into hatred." I get goosebumps whenever I hear that line.

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Old 07-25-2011, 04:19 PM   #25
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Default Re: Who believes these movies are a metaphor on sexual orientions?

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I did not pick up on any romantic undertones between Xavier and Magneto in the least bit. I don't care who says what about what, that is not a part of my viewing of X-Men: First Class.
I would tend to agree with you. While I saw a definite affection for the other between the two, it was nothing greater than an appreciation that real friends have--where one feels lucky to have found someone who understands them.

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