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Old 08-01-2011, 03:38 PM   #101
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Wilkinson was trash? The scene where Bruce confronts him is really well done IMHO. As far as the hokey ending, Iron Man's ending is every bit as bad. So is TDK's. The ferry boat sequence is quite possibly even worse than the microwave emitter.
The ferry boat sequence is pretty bad, I'll grant you that, but as I say...Ledger. Even in the bad sequences you still have Ledger commanding the screen. You just can't compare any other performance to Ledger's. I'd say the only one I found to approach Ledger was Oldman and Eckhart, the rest of the cast is not nearly as good as those three.

Iron Man hokiness was fairly consistent, it wasn't as though the movie had a massive tonal shift in the third act as you see in Begins and TDK. That kind of shift is simply not going to win Oscars.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:39 PM   #102
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It's RT score is 93% (I think TDK is the only other 90+ RT score Superhero film at 94%). Critics never just said it was "fun" and that's it. They said that about Captain America and Thor which have much lower RT scores because they were fun, serviceable and very similar to many other films.
There's fun and there's fun. Doesn't mean 3 fun movies will get the same score. And critics did say IM was fun. The majority did not mention anything more going on about it.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:40 PM   #103
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The ferry boat sequence is pretty bad, I'll grant you that, but as I say...Ledger. Even in the bad sequences you still have Ledger commanding the screen. You just can't compare any other performance to Ledger's. I'd say the only one I found to approach Ledger was Oldman and Eckhart, the rest of the cast is not nearly as good as those three.

Iron Man hokiness was fairly consistent, it wasn't as though the movie had a massive tonal shift in the third act as you see in Begins and TDK. That kind of shift is simply not going to win Oscars.

Iron Man jumps the shark during its third act just like BB/TDK. The best part of the movie is the first hour and a half of it, just like BB. Then it falls apart when Iron Monger comes into the picture. Honestly, the only superhero movie where I felt the climax was legitimately good was probably X2.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:40 PM   #104
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I thought IM was highly mediocre, ok at best. Second one was just crap.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:43 PM   #105
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IM1's average rating is a 7.6, while BB's is a 7.7 despite the fact that IM1 has a 10% higher "fresh rating." Good luck explaining that one away.
I don't really need to, especially since that's all you have to hold onto. Fact is more people liked Iron Man than Batman Begins.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:45 PM   #106
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There's fun and there's fun. Doesn't mean 3 fun movies will get the same score. And critics did say IM was fun. The majority did not mention anything more going on about it.
You can paint it however you want, but that's just not true. I could make the same exact claim about Batman Begins (equally untrue). Also Iron Man wasn't up for any Razzies.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:48 PM   #107
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You can paint it however you want, but that's just not true. I could make the same exact claim about Batman Begins (equally untrue). Also Iron Man wasn't up for any Razzies.
Ok. I guess the reviews for IM or BB are just not true. Alrighty then.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:49 PM   #108
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Iron Man jumps the shark during its third act just like BB/TDK. The best part of the movie is the first hour and a half of it, just like BB. Then it falls apart when Iron Monger comes into the picture. Honestly, the only superhero movie where I felt the climax was legitimately good was probably X2.
Yeah, I completely disagree with everything here except the part about X2 which, I agree, probably has one of the better endings (I actually think Captain America has a great ending too, but needed to flesh some things out more over the course of the movie).

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:50 PM   #109
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Yeah, I completely disagree with everything here except the part about X2 which, I agree, probably has one of the better endings (I actually think Captain America has a great ending too, but needed to flesh some things out more over the course of the movie).

I haven't seen Captain America so I can't comment on it. But every other one I've seen (other than X2 and maybe X-Men: First Class) has something that annoys the crap out of me. Even the original Superman falls apart during its third act. I completely agree on your Oscar comment about TDK. You can't expect a movie to be nominated when the third act is such a mess.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:51 PM   #110
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If Nolan NAILS it then TDKR has a shot at pulling a LOTR: Return of the King. In other words, the quality of the previous films in the trilogy could help boost the acclaim of the final film. It may not be enough to earn an Oscar, but it could be enough to at least get the movie nominated for one.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:52 PM   #111
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I don't think The Dark Knight felt flat on the 3rd act

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:54 PM   #112
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I haven't seen Captain America so I can't comment on it. But every other one I've seen (other than maybe X-Men: First Class) has something that annoys the crap out of me. Even the original Superman falls apart during its third act.
Cap has things that annoy me, just not the ending. The ending is very exciting, and is probably the most memorable part of the film IMO. I think Cap does a poor job of setting up Bucky's "death", which ought to have been incredibly emotional, but as a result lacks depth. The ending is just awesome, but they could've taken some extra time in the build up to have some more personal moments with the characters like you have in X-Men: First Class.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:55 PM   #113
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances?

the academy may ignore nolan once again simply due to it being batman. it'll get the usual nods for sound, fx, technical stuff that big budget movies usually gobble up. So oscar chances look good if this is as epic as TDK. Just not the major kind. You never know til u see it though.

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Old 08-01-2011, 03:58 PM   #114
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I don't think The Dark Knight felt flat on the 3rd act
I think it did, but it makes up for it in other areas so it's not as noticeable as Batman Begins. I'll frequently turn off Begins once he dons the cape, I find the Scarecrow, Holmes and Wilkenson to be particularly grating. I love Neeson, but man does he have way too much expositionary dialogue. I also hate that Nolan repeats every. single. line. in the third act.

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Old 08-01-2011, 04:01 PM   #115
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I think it did, but it makes up for it in other areas so it's not as noticeable as Batman Begins. I'll frequently turn off Begins once he dons the cape, I find the Scarecrow, Holmes and Wilkenson to be particularly grating. I love Neeson, but man does he have way too much expositionary dialogue. I also hate that Nolan repeats every. single. line. in the third act.

The biggest failure of TDK is not its third act, it's the loss of focus on Bruce. Batman Begins got it right on compared to TDK, and hopefully the third one can focus more on him again.

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Old 08-01-2011, 05:57 PM   #116
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I don't think The Dark Knight felt flat on the 3rd act
Me neither. Loved it. Especially Joker's Killing Joke type plot by trying to push Gotham over the edge on the Ferries to prove they're all just as bad as him.

Then there is that phenomenal scene with Batman, Dent, Gordon and his family.

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:02 PM   #117
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Me neither. Loved it. Especially Joker's Killing Joke type plot by trying to push Gotham over the edge on the Ferries to prove they're all just as bad as him.

Then there is that phenomenal scene with Batman, Dent, Gordon and his family.
i agree with everything and i must say that the climax with two-face was perfect

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:06 PM   #118
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances?

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i agree with everything and i must say that the climax with two-face was perfect
especially if you love speechifying.

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:06 PM   #119
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Then there is that phenomenal scene with Batman, Dent, Gordon and his family.

That scene is great, but the 20 minutes preceding it is not.

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:07 PM   #120
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances?

It is for me

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:21 PM   #121
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances?

For a best pic? It has a great change of getting the nod.

But to win it? Nays.

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:23 PM   #122
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especially if you love speechifying.
I'm talking about the confrontation, not everything gary oldman says after that

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:34 PM   #123
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Default Re: TDKR Oscar Chances?

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I don't think The Dark Knight felt flat on the 3rd act
I am equally baffled at the number of fans I've heard complain about the third act. I especially can't understand the dislike for the fairy boat scene, that scene poses a direct moral question to the audience in a way that no superhero film before or since has asked. I find it riveting, my only theory about the complaints is that maybe the film didn't finished the way some had envisioned. Dunno, compared to other films with 3rd act problems TDK is a step above.

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:51 PM   #124
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It'll win Best Picture.

Remember LOTR? The first two were amazing, but because they were Fantasy films, the Academy slept on them, until the third one hit so hard that it was undeniable, and they had to give it's crowning jewels. That's what'll happen here. Batman Begins deserved a nomination, at best. The Dark Knight should've won, at best. Neither was given each due to being Superhero films. Now, if The Dark Knight Rises delivers better than both, the ripple effect will be too enormous for the Academy to ignore, and TDKR will be the first Superhero film to win Best Picture, as it should be!

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:52 PM   #125
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If Nolan NAILS it then TDKR has a shot at pulling a LOTR: Return of the King. In other words, the quality of the previous films in the trilogy could help boost the acclaim of the final film. It may not be enough to earn an Oscar, but it could be enough to at least get the movie nominated for one.
This. Nolan was not only snubbed from a Dark Knight nomination but he wasn't even nominated for Best Director for his work on Inception. Pretty crazy if you ask me. Like it or not, Inception was some QUALITY directing and proved Nolan as an auteur.

I don't care about the Oscars really but it'd be nice if Nolan pulled off a big win with TDKR. He certainly deserves some recognition.

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