Improving Fight Scenes II

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is Here

[returntovoid]

The choreography of the fight scenes in the third film need to be improved, in the sense you could not clearly see what going on when Batman was fighting in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.

I think they should take influence from Martial Arts movies that are along the lines of Enter the Dragon or even the bar fight in Daredevil.

From the recent videos of Batman fighting in the Batman: Arkham Asylum video game, I got to say that they properly captured and showed his fighting style. Sefton Hill (game directer of Batman: Arkham Asylum) said that the fights were inspired by Martial Arts movies.

[DoomsdayApex]

A combination of traditional Jujutsu with KFM, Kali, Sambo, and Wing Chun would make a killer style for Batman.

However, I don't see Wing Chun doing much damage to someone like Bane.

[RedSkull]

I want to see Batman do tae bo

[christpunchers]

Just don't do so many quick cuts and have the camera zoomed out. It's hard to have a clear picture, especially when you know there's a fight, but everything is zoomed in super close.

[Blue_Scholar]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

A combination of traditional Jujutsu with KFM, Kali, Sambo, and Wing Chun would make a killer style for Batman.

However, I don't see Wing Chun doing much damage to someone like Bane.

Jiu-Jitsu would work well to use Bane's size against him. If just for a moment at least, heh.

[Blue_Scholar]

Originally Posted by christpunchers

Just don't do so many quick cuts and have the camera zoomed out. It's hard to have a clear picture, especially when you know there's a fight, but everything is zoomed in super close.

Use wide angle lenses instead of telephoto lenses.

[Blue Sugar]

I thought the close-ups and quick cuts worked well in showcasing the speed of Batman. They just overdid it a bit.

[Gianakin_]

You could see everything in TDK just fine. And they're not changing Batman's martial arts in the 3rd film. It's Keyshi.

[Blue Sugar]

Fun thing is everyone complained about the quick cuts in BB and then in TDK when they toned it down many said it looked too slow and mechanic. It's hard to please.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

You could see everything in TDK just fine. And they're not changing Batman's martial arts in the 3rd film. It's Keyshi.

I hope not, because Keysi alone isn't going to work on Bane. Batman is going to need more than just elbows, headbutts, hammerfists, etc. KFM is an animalistic martial art that mainly depends on brute force to take down an opponent. Now if you bring in an opponent like Bane who is the definition of brute force, Batman's style and technique is in trouble. Batman is the smaller and weaker opponent, he won't be able to overpower, or power through Bane's style.

Batman is going to need a completely new approach and strategy. And KFM does not offer that at all. The art itself is incomplete with its founders yet to be seen since 2009.

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I like the fight scenes in both films woulda liked if they pulled the camera back a little in BB but I'm fine with it. I just want the fights to be more brutal and intense in this film as well as have the henchmen fall when they supposed tO be hit not before lol

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

I hope not, because Keysi alone isn't going to work on Bane. Batman is going to need more than just elbows, headbutts, hammerfists, etc. KFM is an animalistic martial art that mainly depends on brute force to take down an opponent. Now if you bring in an opponent like Bane who is the definition of brute force, Batman's style and technique is in trouble. Batman is the smaller and weaker opponent, he won't be able to overpower, or power through Bane's style.

Batman is going to need a completely new approach and strategy. And KFM does not offer that at all. The art itself is incomplete with its founders yet to be seen since 2009.

I don't think this changes the fact that they're still going with Keysi.

[Weadazoid]

Wwell... Here is what I think, when Bane faces the Bat were are all going to feel very very uncomfortable.

There have been alot of odd back and forth ramblings about which movie will do better/be better Avengers or this one.


This past year one could make the argument that Thor and GL were comparable, fantasy based heros, one has a Hammer the other has a ring.



but the Avengers will have glitz and fun,


the Bat, and the many that horde the theaters to see it will be there to be put entirely on edge.


Just the trailer for this alone gives you that feel, That even Batman feels uneasy about taking this guy on in a physical fight.

The Venom, that courses through Bane makes him DC's anti Captain America, a super soildger, of sorts.


I am not sure that Banes displays of power will be anywhere near as stylized as Cap, or even Red Skulls have been on screen, but I am quite sure they will bring a whole new meaning to Vulgar displays of human ability to inflict damage.

The Joker was able to convey insanity very well, enough to the point that yes he made us all feel uncomfortable, just becuase he was onscreen.


Bane will display and exude a kind of physcial power/pressence that makes the audience grit teeth in despair for whomever he is closest too onscreen.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

I don't think this changes the fact that they're still going with Keysi.

1.) Do you have confirmation that they will be using KFM again?

2.) If they do, then they haven't learned a damn thing from the previous films -- and have zero imagination when coming to fight scenes.

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

1.) Do you have confirmation that they will be using KFM again?

2.) If they do, then they haven't learned a damn thing from the previous films -- and have zero imagination when coming to fight scenes.

1.I have BB and TDK and Nolan's general approach to things which hasn't changed.

2.That's your opinion and it's fine (and I disagree completely). But if they "haven't learned a damn thing", it's because they probably don't believe anything's wrong with their choice of martial arts. So, there's nothing TO learn.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

1.I have BB and TDK and Nolan's general approach to things which hasn't changed.

2.That's your opinion and it's fine (and I disagree completely). But if they "haven't learned a damn thing", it's because they probably don't believe anything's wrong with their choice of martial arts. So, there's nothing TO learn.

1.) Well, that's just an assumption.

2.) (Assuming it's true) By staying with a half-finished system, yes, they haven't learned ANYTHING. Furthermore, I really cannot fathom why you disagree considering TDK had some of the most ridiculous hand-to-hand combat scenes I've seen in awhile. The fight choreographer, clearly, didn't what the hell he was doing.

[imposserus]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

A combination of traditional Jujutsu with KFM, Kali, Sambo, and Wing Chun would make a killer style for Batman.

However, I don't see Wing Chun doing much damage to someone like Bane.

the bigger they are, the better it works...
it was developed for smaller people to defend from larger opponents
by a woman even(!)

and i won't bring it up again, since we all know we wont see it
with it being and art and all... and these fightscenes being the least artful part of the movies

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by imposserus

the bigger they are, the better it works...
it was developed for smaller people to defend from larger opponents
by a woman even(!)

and i won't bring it up again, since we all know we wont see it
with it being and art and all... and these fightscenes being the least artful part of the movies

I took a few courses back in '06, and not once did I feel comfortable using it against a guy who is 6'6 ft 265 lbs. The approach was very simplisitic (easy transitions) but the fatal flaw of Wing Chun is that it depends largely on hip power and pressure points.

With Kali or Combat Sambo, you get more -- quite frankly because they are well balanced hybrid systems.

[imposserus]

i think i said kali/sambo/WC
and we already know he's got juijutso


crap- i said i woulnd't bring it up again

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

1.I have BB and TDK and Nolan's general approach to things which hasn't changed.

2.That's your opinion and it's fine (and I disagree completely). But if they "haven't learned a damn thing", it's because they probably don't believe anything's wrong with their choice of martial arts. So, there's nothing TO learn.

Agreed.

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

1.) Well, that's just an assumption.

2.) (Assuming it's true) By staying with a half-finished system, yes, they haven't learned ANYTHING. Furthermore, I really cannot fathom why you disagree considering TDK had some of the most ridiculous hand-to-hand combat scenes I've seen in awhile. The fight choreographer, clearly, didn't what the hell he was doing.

1.Backed with evidence of how Nolan does things. People thought we'd be getting a new Batmobile.

2.Half-finished system is your opinion. Why I disagree is because I liked what I saw in TDK. What you've seen in a while is a matter of your personal taste, which apparently differs from mine. There glitches in the fights but I enjoyed them overall.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

1.Backed with evidence of how Nolan does things. People thought we'd be getting a new Batmobile.

2.Half-finished system is your opinion. Why I disagree is because I liked what I saw in TDK. What you've seen in a while is a matter of your personal taste, which apparently differs from mine. There glitches in the fights but I enjoyed them overall.

1.) Not really. I based the return of the Tumbler on what Lucius Fox said.

2.) No, that is definitely not an opinion. Keysi IS, in fact, a half finished system. There is no debate here. The founders left the art, and went back to teaching JKD in Spain. I would know, trust me. I took KFM in Valencia, Spain and I downloaded the entire video series for training. For instance, KFM only has 5-6 techniques when coming to grappling (full mount, side mount, guard, takedown defense, takedowns, etc). Nothing else has developed since.

Plus, KFM only has 9 skill groups with 4-5 techniques in each one. That to me is a one-dimensional art that is hollow.

[Tigerman]

Here's my post from the same topic in the Non-Spoiler Forum:

I absolutely hated the action scenes in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight (save for maybe the first Batman fight scene from Begins). When I saw this (the link below) for the first time, I instinctively said to myself, "This is how Batman should be fighting!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHRwo48twyE

Bam. Perfect combination of stylized camerawork (especially for the close-ups), kinetic and logical editing, rough, not-to-stylized action choreography and performances, and atmosphere. You can't see every move that's being thrown like in a HK-style fight scene, but a lot of the action is clearly seen and it works well with the fact that some of it needs to be implied by the audience too (like how Nolan intended the Batman Begins fights to be). The moving wide shot captures everything that goes on while cutting back and fourth to the close-ups and it really help this fight scene sell.

Another one that's very similar in style is the Travolta vs. gang fight from From Paris With Love. This one is just a bit more stylized because of the slow-motion, but it has the same principals and flow of action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWKM0bzoh5k

Of the two, I'd say the fight from The Book of Eli is more suited for a Nolan Batman film.

[Piuchén]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

1.) Not really. I based the return of the Tumbler on what Lucius Fox said.

2.) No, that is definitely not an opinion. Keysi IS, in fact, a half finished system. There is no debate here. The founders left the art, and went back to teaching JKD in Spain. I would know, trust me. I took KFM in Valencia, Spain and I downloaded the entire video series for training. For instance, KFM only has 5-6 techniques when coming to grappling (full mount, side mount, guard, takedown defense, takedowns, etc). Nothing else has developed since.

Plus, KFM only has 9 skill groups with 4-5 techniques in each one. That to me is a one-dimensional art that is hollow.

Hope that Justo has made some money, I heard he had instructors in a few places in Europe...

Well is not about the number of techniques but I never trained much Kali without the sticks so I cannot give an opinion. Sambo is something I like though, WT is not bad but I don´t know against someone skilled.