Improving Fight Scenes II

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Piuchén

Hope that Justo has made some money, I heard he had instructors in a few places in Europe...

Well is not about the number of techniques but I never trained much Kali without the sticks so I cannot give an opinion. Sambo is something I like though, WT is not bad but I don´t know against someone skilled.

Empty handed techniques from Kali are among some of best in martial arts today -- more precise than Krav Maga. You target your opponent with counter-offense. The point of it is to make sure your opponent doesn't get an opportunity to harm you. Breaking bones and tearing tendons/ligaments as fast as possible. That is what Batman should be about.

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

1.) Not really. I based the return of the Tumbler on what Lucius Fox said.

2.) No, that is definitely not an opinion. Keysi IS, in fact, a half finished system. There is no debate here. The founders left the art, and went back to teaching JKD in Spain. I would know, trust me. I took KFM in Valencia, Spain and I downloaded the entire video series for training. For instance, KFM only has 5-6 techniques when coming to grappling (full mount, side mount, guard, takedown defense, takedowns, etc). Nothing else has developed since.

Plus, KFM only has 9 skill groups with 4-5 techniques in each one. That to me is a one-dimensional art that is hollow.

1.I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about people's expectations in general. I remember what people thought Nolan would go for in TDK in terms of style and tone, I remember them making various suggestions about stuff... and in the end Nolan went with what he had established with his approach.

2.Thing is, I don't really care what KFM has to offer as a martial art. I was speaking in terms of the movies it's being used in. It's like trashing Star Wars because the choreography is based on hokey medieval martial arts moves.

[The Morningstar]

KFM is a crap martial art to use in movies.

Do i really have to post the video of the Hong Kong fight again? It was appaling.

Can't believe Batman fans, of all people, are willing to just accept mediocre fight scenes. Batman fight scenes should be iconic and memorable, topping "greatest action scenes" movie lists regularly.

[Gianakin_]

If you post that HK fight video, you'll prove nothing. Those who liked it will still like it and those who didn't still won't. It's a matter of opinion.

[Yr Blues]

I liked Michael Keaton's stealthy/cunning fighter. Seemed more ninja-like to me. Nolan makes batman move too fast and out-in-the-open. He rarely feels like a ninja.

[CapedCrusader14]

If I had to describe Keaton's fighting style it would be.

Stand in spot. Goon runs at you. Move out of way. Goon gets knocked out.



Still enjoy watching Keaton's Batman though.

[Gianakin_]

It was fun, for sure, but it was exactly like you described it.

[Yr Blues]

Originally Posted by CapedCrusader14

If I had to describe Keaton's fighting style it would be.

Stand in spot. Goon runs at you. Move out of way. Goon gets knocked out.



Still enjoy watching Keaton's Batman though.

but the goons always looks scared…or hesitant.

i don't see them fear the bateman

[CapedCrusader14]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

It was fun, for sure, but it was exactly like you described it.

Yeah.

[CapedCrusader14]

Originally Posted by Yr Blues

but the goons always looks scared…or hesitant.

i don't see them fear the bateman

Batman Begins. Dockyard scene.

A guy is spraying his SMG everywhere and sweating. WHERE ARE YOU?

Hell Carmine was crapping his pants.

Also the Arkham scene when they are talking about the myths about him. They're scared for damn sure.

Never saw them afraid of the Keaton (except for that one goon at the beginning).

[SheldonLevene]

Judging by the arm movements, stance, and use of elbows, I'd say KFM is still Batman's primary fighting style.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by SheldonLevene

Judging by the arm movements, stance, and use of elbows, I'd say KFM is still Batman's primary fighting style.

God help us all

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

1.I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about people's expectations in general. I remember what people thought Nolan would go for in TDK in terms of style and tone, I remember them making various suggestions about stuff... and in the end Nolan went with what he had established with his approach.

2.Thing is, I don't really care what KFM has to offer as a martial art. I was speaking in terms of the movies it's being used in. It's like trashing Star Wars because the choreography is based on hokey medieval martial arts moves.

Ahhh, but that's the point. We're not in 'medieval' times anymore. We, as fans, expect more. Hell, as a martial artist and a fighter, I expect more from a Batman flick.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

God help us all

Lets just hope the editing this time around is a lot better.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Figs

Lets just hope the editing this time around is a lot better.

I hope so too. I really don't want these fight scenes to be the black sheep of the trilogy.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

I hope so too. I really don't want these fight scenes to be the black sheep of the trilogy.

I hope Nolan found the right speed to edit them. Somewhere in between BB and TDK of course. Not too fast, but definitely not as slow as it was in TDK.

[Yr Blues]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

I hope so too. I really don't want these fight scenes to be the black sheep of the trilogy.

i can't think of a comicbook movie where I enjoyed the fight scenes. maybe the matrix, but that was over-the-top.

inception was also a bit sloppy with the action

[D.P.]

I see Batman is still using elbow strikes...

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Figs

I hope Nolan found the right speed to edit them. Somewhere in between BB and TDK of course. Not too fast, but definitely not as slow as it was in TDK.

Yes, the BB fight scenes weren't too bad. They were just too messy and quick to make anything out of it.

Nolan showed improvements in Inception, let's hope it carries over *crosses fingers*

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Yr Blues

i can't think of a comicbook movie where I enjoyed the fight scenes. maybe the matrix, but that was over-the-top.

inception was also a bit sloppy with the action

Which is something I don't understand. There are a ton of brilliant fight choreographers in Hollywood. What's so hard about hiring a guy like Tony Imada?

[enquencle]

Originally Posted by Tigerman

Here's my post from the same topic in the Non-Spoiler Forum:

I absolutely hated the action scenes in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight (save for maybe the first Batman fight scene from Begins). When I saw this (the link below) for the first time, I instinctively said to myself, "This is how Batman should be fighting!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHRwo48twyE

Bam. Perfect combination of stylized camerawork (especially for the close-ups), kinetic and logical editing, rough, not-to-stylized action choreography and performances, and atmosphere. You can't see every move that's being thrown like in a HK-style fight scene, but a lot of the action is clearly seen and it works well with the fact that some of it needs to be implied by the audience too (like how Nolan intended the Batman Begins fights to be). The moving wide shot captures everything that goes on while cutting back and fourth to the close-ups and it really help this fight scene sell.

I completely agree with this. This style of editing,adding some quick cuts, close ups, and a little more speed, and it would be great. I like to see what happens during an action scene, but i also wnat it to be dynamic. Something like this would look good on a Batman film.

[Piuchén]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

Empty handed techniques from Kali are among some of best in martial arts today -- more precise than Krav Maga. You target your opponent with counter-offense. The point of it is to make sure your opponent doesn't get an opportunity to harm you. Breaking bones and tearing tendons/ligaments as fast as possible. That is what Batman should be about.

I remember now, my friend taught that to me as gunting and dumok I guess, the thing is he just showed me an elbow to biceps and a knuckle to biceps, similar to Batman´s...

Please do not have a heart attack but I saw an image and he is using that elbow again...

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by Piuchén

I remember now, my friend taught that to me as gunting and dumok I guess, the thing is he just showed me an elbow to biceps and a knuckle to biceps, similar to Batman´s...

Please do not have a heart attack but I saw an image and he is using that elbow again...

I know, I saw the pics

Yea, KFM is a hybrid art. It took elements from Arnis/Escrima/Kali/Silat, Muay Thai, JKD and Krav Maga. Batman seems to use a few techniques from that style as well. Not efficiently though...

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

Ahhh, but that's the point. We're not in 'medieval' times anymore. We, as fans, expect more. Hell, as a martial artist and a fighter, I expect more from a Batman flick.

What medieval times? I was talking about the fact that SW movies don't use accurate martial arts movies from sword fighting. My sword instructor actually thought RotS sucked because the moves weren't real. And I told him then, like I say to you now, that I don't give a f*** if the martial art the choreography is based on is stupid or unreal or whatever. In the end it's the result on screen that matters. And I see you don't like it. That is more than fine by me. But that doesn't mean the TDKR people haven't learned their lesson because they're obviously happy with this approach.

And, from the photos that were released, it looks like I was right. They stuck with KFM. Big surprise there.

[imposserus]

i will say this:
the very first fight in begins was awesome
the one in prison
that felt like a real fight
there was a real dangerousness in that


but maybe it was just the mud