The Official "I Loved Raimi's Spider-Man' Thread - Part 1 of 99 Luft - Part 3

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Spider-ManHero12

I hate shows like Glee, lol.

The ironic thing is that we ended up watching (500) Days of Summer by the new Spidey director, Marc Webb. I hadn't watched it yet. And it was definitely better than Glee.

Originally Posted by The Joker

A purchase you shall not regret

Well, as I mentioned about my weird OCD habit, I hope I don't go crazy with that Harry cliffhanger ending because there's no way I'd spend money on Spider-Man 3, haha.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Edit

[Spider-Aziz]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

The ironic thing is that we ended up watching (500) Days of Summer by the new Spidey director, Marc Webb. I hadn't watched it yet. And it was definitely better than Glee.

I watched none, and I don't care at all

[Spider-ManHero12]

Tbh, I have no interest in a movie like 500 Days of Summer.

[Anno_Domini]

Romantic comedies isn't something many people would watch, but I enjoyed the combination of Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Matthew Gray Gubler and Clark Gregg. I found it to be very funny as well. As much as it's a whole different game than a CBM film, it made me look forward to The Amazing Spider-Man. Don't know why though, lol, but maybe I just became excited to see a new take on the character.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Interesting interview with the late Laura Ziskin. This interview was from before S-M3 and I haven't seen the interview since 2006.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCcRzOF-meo

[Godzilla2014]

Anyone else think that Green Goblin in Spider-Man was too cartoony? I mean, I thought his motivations were inconsistent and vague, he's too hammed up, and he's not threatening enough. And let's not forget the poor costume.

His motivations change without any explanation. At first he wants to kill the board members, and he succeeds, then he gets into a fight with Spider-Man. Now he becomes obsessed with him for no known reason. He invites Spider-Man to join him...in doing what exactly? Then when Spider-Man refuses, he wants to kill Spider-Man, presumably for refusing his offer and therefore making himself his enemy. So, after finding out Spider-Man is Peter Parker, he kidnaps Mary Jane Watson and takes a cable car full of kids hostage to give him a sadistic choice, and then ends up fighting Spider-Man in an abandoned building. But wait, why does he want to emotionally torture Peter Parker instead of just killing him efficiently, like he did to the board members and vice a versa? It feels arbitrary because Spider-Man is the title character.

He generally lacks menace throughout the film, although I think it improves at the ending when he is threatening Peter's family and friends. The problem is he acts too over-the-top to be genuinely threatening, and his dialogue is poor and cliched.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2014

Anyone else think that Green Goblin in Spider-Man was too cartoony? I mean, I thought his motivations were inconsistent and vague, he's too hammed up, and he's not threatening enough. And let's not forget the poor costume.

His motivations change without any explanation. At first he wants to kill the board members, and he succeeds, then he gets into a fight with Spider-Man. Now he becomes obsessed with him for no known reason. He invites Spider-Man to join him...in doing what exactly? Then when Spider-Man refuses, he wants to kill Spider-Man, presumably for refusing his offer and therefore making himself his enemy. So, after finding out Spider-Man is Peter Parker, he kidnaps Mary Jane Watson and takes a cable car full of kids hostage to give him a sadistic choice, and then ends up fighting Spider-Man in an abandoned building. But wait, why does he want to emotionally torture Peter Parker instead of just killing him efficiently, like he did to the board members and vice a versa? It feels arbitrary because Spider-Man is the title character.

He generally lacks menace throughout the film, although I think it improves at the ending when he is threatening Peter's family and friends. The problem is he acts too over-the-top to be genuinely threatening, and his dialogue is poor and cliched.

I agree with all of this. I'd like Goblin to have had a specific goal beyond just trying to make Spider-Man his partner. Maybe try and make Spider-Man join him in achieving that evil goal.

The costume was the biggest failing with the character. It hampered Dafoe's performance. I cannot find anyone looking like a giant green plastic action figure menacing. Especially when he's given lines like "We'll meet again, Spider-Maaaaaaaaaaaan" and singing itsy bitsy spider etc. Bit too corny for my taste.

I think Dafoe's best scenes were the Norman Osborn ones, especially the one where he talks to his Goblin persona in the mirror.

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I agree with all of this. I'd like Goblin to have had a specific goal beyond just trying to make Spider-Man his partner. Maybe try and make Spider-Man join him in achieving that evil goal.

The costume was the biggest failing with the character. It hampered Dafoe's performance. I cannot find anyone looking like a giant green plastic action figure menacing. Especially when he's given lines like "We'll meet again, Spider-Maaaaaaaaaaaan" and singing itsy bitsy spider etc. Bit too corny for my taste.

I think Dafoe's best scenes were the Norman Osborn ones, especially the one where he talks to his Goblin persona in the mirror.

Agreed. Why not give him the ulterior motivation of trying to get control of organized crime in New York City, like in the early Stan Lee/Steve Ditko comics? He becomes obsessed with Spider-Man as the biggest potential threat to his operations, so he wants to understand that threat entirely.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Edit

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2014

Anyone else think that Green Goblin in Spider-Man was too cartoony? I mean, I thought his motivations were inconsistent and vague, he's too hammed up, and he's not threatening enough. And let's not forget the poor costume.

His motivations change without any explanation. At first he wants to kill the board members, and he succeeds, then he gets into a fight with Spider-Man. Now he becomes obsessed with him for no known reason. He invites Spider-Man to join him...in doing what exactly? Then when Spider-Man refuses, he wants to kill Spider-Man, presumably for refusing his offer and therefore making himself his enemy. So, after finding out Spider-Man is Peter Parker, he kidnaps Mary Jane Watson and takes a cable car full of kids hostage to give him a sadistic choice, and then ends up fighting Spider-Man in an abandoned building. But wait, why does he want to emotionally torture Peter Parker instead of just killing him efficiently, like he did to the board members and vice a versa? It feels arbitrary because Spider-Man is the title character.

He generally lacks menace throughout the film, although I think it improves at the ending when he is threatening Peter's family and friends. The problem is he acts too over-the-top to be genuinely threatening, and his dialogue is poor and cliched.

Imo, I think Norman Osborn/Green Goblin had the most consistency than the other villains. Osborn wanted to kill the board members which Spidey intervened and Osborn, with the members dead, focused his attention unto Spidey who Osborn most likely felt like he was an 'equal' to himself. With Spidey denying Osborn's "invitation", it would be logical for Osborn to want him dead now and that's why the Goblin persona insisted that they go after Spidey's heart, which was Aunt May and then Mary Jane.

He didn't have a quick change of heart after hurting and killing civilians like Ock, nor did he have a very confusing and conflicting pattern like Sandman. And Harry and Venom...well, their storylines were just horrible from start to finish in S-M 3.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Such a brutal fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6B7d_Hi9gw

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Imo, I think Norman Osborn/Green Goblin had the most consistency than the other villains. Osborn wanted to kill the board members which Spidey intervened and Osborn, with the members dead, focused his attention unto Spidey who Osborn most likely felt like he was an 'equal' to himself. With Spidey denying Osborn's "invitation", it would be logical for Osborn to want him dead now and that's why the Goblin persona insisted that they go after Spidey's heart, which was Aunt May and then Mary Jane.

He didn't have a quick change of heart after hurting and killing civilians like Ock, nor did he have a very confusing and conflicting pattern like Sandman or Venom.

The thing is that Norman didn't seem to care about anything other than killing the board members before he did it. If he was obsessed with Spider-Man as an equal, why not put a scene showing that with Norman in private? And why would he care about Spider-Man? After all, Spider-Man FAILED to stop him. Even though he had to retreat, Green Goblin still succeeded. Hell, he could gotten away before Spider-Man even showed up if he hadn't gotten himself sidetracked with terrorizing Mary Jane Watson. Why does he do these things?

Doc Ock didn't care about civilian casualties because I think he believed that the reactor was the greater good, so they were justified by utilitarian philosophy. Sandman sucked, and Venom was underdeveloped.

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by Spider-ManHero12

Such a brutal fight.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

It was a very brutal fight. The climax was probably the best of Willem Dafoe's performance as Green Goblin. Had he acted more like this throughout the film, I think his overall performance would be much better.

[Spider-ManHero12]

I thought dafoe did a great job, if you ask me.

[SpideyVille]

Same here, which is why I always hoped they'd bring him back to be the Goblin at some point.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Spider-ManHero12

Such a brutal fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6B7d_Hi9gw

Stupid metal sound! I always hated that part just for that sound alone.

Originally Posted by Godzilla2014

The thing is that Norman didn't seem to care about anything other than killing the board members before he did it. If he was obsessed with Spider-Man as an equal, why not put a scene showing that with Norman in private? And why would he care about Spider-Man? After all, Spider-Man FAILED to stop him. Even though he had to retreat, Green Goblin still succeeded. Hell, he could gotten away before Spider-Man even showed up if he hadn't gotten himself sidetracked with terrorizing Mary Jane Watson. Why does he do these things?

A scene would've been nice, yes, but it showed that Green Goblin found some competition and knew it, but he first wanted to "lure Spidey to the dark side" instead of wanting him dead. This Goblin didn't want to rule the underworld and wanted to only kill his competition, but for Spidey, he wanted to see if he'll come to understand Gobby's "philosophy" and be on his side. I understood Goblin's whole plot without really needing to see anything extra and that's more than what I can say about Raimi's usage of his other villains.

Doc Ock didn't care about civilian casualties because I think he believed that the reactor was the greater good, so they were justified by utilitarian philosophy. Sandman sucked, and Venom was underdeveloped.

But Doc Ock just turned the cheek making it seem like the tentacles MADE him do all of those things, but yet he didn't care about hurting anyone at that bank or in that train. Ock's conclusion fit the theme of the film, but made no sense, imo.

And Sandman...what's funny is that in S-M 3, we see him actually caring about his daughter and looking at her picture after that experiment gone wrong, but we NEVER see what he did with that money, lol. He steals the money the first time and we have no clue what happens and then the second time he steals money, he gets washed away by water, then says yes to killing Spidey. Just full-on out of character, but besides that, we don't see a doctor, so how can we say he wanted to use that money to help Penny? Lol. HUGE plot hole. Sure, the ones who know about this film and the ones who've read the novelization know better, but to the wider audience, it looks like a jumbled mess.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Spider-ManHero12

I thought dafoe did a great job, if you ask me.

All of the actors who portrayed GG, Ock, Sandman, Venom and Harry did amazing jobs...it's just the script itself.

Heck, Ryan Reynolds did an amazing job as Hal Jordan, but the script itself to Green Lantern lacked.

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

Stupid metal sound! I always hated that part just for that sound alone.

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

A scene would've been nice, yes, but it showed that Green Goblin found some competition and knew it, but he first wanted to "lure Spidey to the dark side" instead of wanting him dead. This Goblin didn't want to rule the underworld and wanted to only kill his competition, but for Spidey, he wanted to see if he'll come to understand Gobby's "philosophy" and be on his side. I understood Goblin's whole plot without really needing to see anything extra and that's more than what I can say about Raimi's usage of his other villains.

What does Green Goblin want Spider-Man to join him in doing? What is his agenda?

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

But Doc Ock just turned the cheek making it seem like the tentacles MADE him do all of those things, but yet he didn't care about hurting anyone at that bank or in that train. Ock's conclusion fit the theme of the film, but made no sense, imo.

And Sandman...what's funny is that in S-M 3, we see him actually caring about his daughter and looking at her picture after that experiment gone wrong, but we NEVER see what he did with that money, lol. He steals the money the first time and we have no clue what happens and then the second time he steals money, he gets washed away by water, then says yes to killing Spidey. Just full-on out of character, but besides that, we don't see a doctor, so how can we say he wanted to use that money to help Penny? Lol. HUGE plot hole. Sure, the ones who know about this film and the ones who've read the novelization know better, but to the wider audience, it looks like a jumbled mess.

I disagree about Doctor Octopus. Peter convinced Doc Ock that his machine was in fact, doing more harm to people than good. The damage done as a result of his attempts to build it is therefore not justified, and not worth continuing to build it. This is how utilitarian philosophy works. The ends justify the means. Make sense?

I agree with you about Sandman.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

But Doc Ock just turned the cheek making it seem like the tentacles MADE him do all of those things, but yet he didn't care about hurting anyone at that bank or in that train. Ock's conclusion fit the theme of the film, but made no sense, imo.

I'm not sure where your confusion comes from. It's rather straight forward and clear cut in the movie. The tentacles clearly influenced him into rebuilding his reactor at any cost. Otto had already shown he had a violent side when it came to his life's work when he smashed Spidey into a wall at the demonstration when Spidey tried to unplug the reactor. The tentacles just played up that ruthless determination.

It took Peter reminding Otto of the moral ethics he had when Peter first met him to make him realize killing a whole city isn't going to justify him having his fusion reactor.

The Goblin on the other head went through three different motivations in the movie. He went from killing the Oscorp competition and board members to trying to make Spider-Man join him to trying to punish Spider-Man for rejecting him. Ock's motive was clear cut all the way through. Rebuild his fusion reactor. Sandman's was getting money for his daughter. Harry's was getting revenge on Peter for killing his father. Venom's was getting revenge on Peter for ruining his life.

Gobby is the only one who's motives fluctuated.

[Spider-ManHero12]

Originally Posted by SpideyVille

Same here, which is why I always hoped they'd bring him back to be the Goblin at some point.

Well, it was fantastic to see him visit Harry in S-M2 an 3. That end sene from S-M2 gave me chills.

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I'm not sure where your confusion comes from. It's rather straight forward and clear cut in the movie. The tentacles clearly influenced him into rebuilding his reactor at any cost. Otto had already shown he had a violent side when it came to his life's work when he smashed Spidey into a wall at the demonstration when Spidey tried to unplug the reactor. The tentacles just played up that ruthless determination.

It took Peter reminding Otto of the moral ethics he had when Peter first met him to make him realize killing a whole city isn't going to justify him having his fusion reactor.

Agreed. Plus I think that they convinced Otto Octavius to go through with it using utilitarian ethics, hence why he doesn't try to stop them throughout most of the film.

[Spider-Aziz]

Memorable

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[Spider-ManHero12]

Very emotional scene, if you ask me. Felt it in the theater.

[Gwendolyn Stacy]

Gonna watch Spider-Man 3 tomorrow on blu-ray.