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View Poll Results: Should this Superman kill?
No. 133 70.00%
Yes, its about time 32 16.84%
He should Find a way to send them to the Phantom Zone 14 7.37%
Other (explain) 11 5.79%
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:55 AM   #101
Llama_Shepherd
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Superman #22 shows Superman as the villain. I don't like that. There is a difference between killing and murdering, Batman has killed people, Nightwing killed Blockbuster, Flash killed Prof Zoom. Superman murdered Zod.

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Old 08-25-2011, 02:20 AM   #102
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

For the most part no he shouldn't IMO.

He should practice the life giving sword if left with no other options though. There are just very few situations where Superman can't take care of something without killing.

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Old 08-25-2011, 05:59 AM   #103
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

No killing please!

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Old 08-25-2011, 06:16 AM   #104
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

There are obvious exceptions (Doomsday, For Tomorrow's Zod, ...), but in general, Superman shouldn't resort to killing. This is his last resort, and even more so, preferably only when other people's lives are at stake.

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Old 08-25-2011, 06:20 AM   #105
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

meh, it all depends on context.

people were against cap using guns and cap killing people but he did both and it worked well me thinks, it would have been unrealistic if he didn't.

but supes should never go into a battle with the intention to murder, if that ends up being a last resort and they are from a non-earthly origin, so be it.

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Old 08-25-2011, 06:23 AM   #106
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaoth View Post
John Byrne's take on Superman was very progressive for its time.
Superman should kill if he needs to.
This "no kill no matter what" code is clearly a Sacred Cow.
Thus it must be put down.
I predict Superman will kill out of necessity in MOS.
I find it amusing how some seem to forget Superman #22 (one of the best ever) from the majestic and truly iconic Byrne run, and of course, Superman killing Zod in Superman II, and allowing Ursa and Non to die as well.
clark also killed his evil self without knowing the repercussions of his actions.

and that's clark, not even supes.

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Old 08-25-2011, 08:59 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by November Rain View Post
clark also killed his evil self without knowing the repercussions of his actions. And that's clark, not even supes.
Are you referring to S3? That was also last resort, so based on your comments, as well as mine, I think we've established a good layer.
Superman shouldn't go into battle with the intent to kill, unless it served as a last resort. I can also imagine it being less of a threshold for him if, like you said, that person were of alien origin, and posed a genuine threat to Earth.
According to the Man of Steel synopsis, the threat is real, so I'm very interested in seeing how the story will play out.

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:12 AM   #108
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

He'll throw Giant Zod and Darth Faora in the Phantom Zone

If Superman followed human situations, he would be bound in having to kill them, since there would be no possible way to deal with Zod and Faora accordingly. But since Superman has the resources no one else has, the Phantom Zone is the most likely bet.

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:29 AM   #109
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Kind of an odd and loaded question, no?

Should Luke Skywalker kill? As a general rule, no - he shouldn’t. Killing is bad. But in the course of his narrative, he has taken life and his status as noble hero is still secure. Context is everything.

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:35 AM   #110
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Are you taking EU into account? Movie-wise, If you don't count the endless barrage of Stormtroopers, or the Rancor, I doubt Luke ever did. Vader killed the Emperor, and Luke only wounded Vader. It was Vader's attack on the Emperor that killed him.

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:34 AM   #111
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Depending on how great the threat is, maybe.

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:38 AM   #112
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. View Post
Kind of an odd and loaded question, no?

Should Luke Skywalker kill? As a general rule, no - he shouldn’t. Killing is bad. But in the course of his narrative, he has taken life and his status as noble hero is still secure. Context is everything.
Exactly. Context is everything.

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:43 AM   #113
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaoth View Post
Exactly. Context is everything.
and context is written by the writers.......

so, it all depends on how the writers of the story write it.

they can choose to have Superman kill.......or they can come up with a way to avoid that.......

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:48 AM   #114
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenX View Post
they can choose to have Superman kill.......or they can come up with a way to avoid that.......
Like have the villian kill themselves by accident.

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:49 AM   #115
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIncredibleSk View Post
But Superman could stop Hitler without Killing him. Superman isn't a judge. He was raised in middle AMERICA. And in America we give people rights to a fair trial.
Superman isn't SuperCop. He should be able to determine the good or evil of the consequences of his own actions and not rely on some external standard like AMERICAN law.
Get ready for Grant Morrison's Action Comics. (Hint: He's not the Big Blue Boyscout anymore.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIncredibleSk View Post
Superman isn't a true hero if he can determine who he wants to live.
Why not? Is that a commandment in the Superhero bible?


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Originally Posted by TheIncredibleSk View Post
Whats then stopping him from just saying **** it and taking over the world to make it a utopia.
His personal set of ethics prevent him from doing so. I hope his ethics are informed not just by the environment he was raised in, but also by the experiences he has acquired through trial and error.

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:49 AM   #116
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. View Post
Kind of an odd and loaded question, no?

Should Luke Skywalker kill? As a general rule, no - he shouldn’t. Killing is bad. But in the course of his narrative, he has taken life and his status as noble hero is still secure. Context is everything.
luke skywalker killed loads of people

is it possible for a member of a rebellion to act noble, i never saw luke's issues with death as being anything other than something that would potentially lead him to the dark side and that was if he murdered with malicious intent rather than killing.

the jedi will kill anyone, they have less morals than supes.

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:50 AM   #117
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd View Post
Superman #22 shows Superman as the villain. .
No it didn't. Read the book before offering your opinion on it.

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:51 AM   #118
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kal-El_ View Post
Are you referring to S3? That was also last resort, so based on your comments, as well as mine, I think we've established a good layer.
Superman shouldn't go into battle with the intent to kill, unless it served as a last resort. I can also imagine it being less of a threshold for him if, like you said, that person were of alien origin, and posed a genuine threat to Earth.
According to the Man of Steel synopsis, the threat is real, so I'm very interested in seeing how the story will play out.
i just want to clarify one thing in my posts.

i said creatures that aren't human. I should have really said creatures that aren't human that also lack humanity.

kryptonians as a race aren't savage so i don't think he should do the savage thing and kill them

although saying this, locking them up in the phantom zone is hardly a humane way to deal with criminals either.

all in all, let's see what the writers come up with, i doubt it would be something that pleases everyone, hopefully the majority of us will just glance over it and enjoy the film for what it is.

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Old 08-25-2011, 12:08 PM   #119
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kal-El_ View Post
Are you taking EU into account? Movie-wise, If you don't count the endless barrage of Stormtroopers, or the Rancor, I doubt Luke ever did. Vader killed the Emperor, and Luke only wounded Vader. It was Vader's attack on the Emperor that killed him.
They don’t count? So if Supes happens to kill the equivalent of anonymous, background Stormtroopers, it’s okay?

Actually, I sorta agree with that.


I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Supes become a ruthless executioner. But if, in a given scenario, there’s a choice between saving - say - innocent victims or nasty criminals, there really shouldn’t be a whole lot of angst spent on the decision.

This is yet another one of those limiting and self-defeating parameters that is placed on Superman. Most of the heroes on TV cop shows take lives upon occasion– with nary an outcry. Harry Potter (so I’m told) has killed. Heck, even sweet and innocent Dorothy Gale inadvertently dispatched not one but two witches in the Wizard of Oz. But if some evil henchmen happen to croak in Supes' proximity, this is taken as evidence of the insidious deconstruction of the character – trying to make him “bad ass” for a modern audience.

I don’t think so.

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Old 08-25-2011, 12:13 PM   #120
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. View Post
They don’t count? So if Supes happens to kill the equivalent of anonymous, background Stormtroopers, it’s okay?

Actually, I sorta agree with that.


I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Supes become a ruthless executioner. But if, in a given scenario, there’s a choice between saving - say - innocent victims or nasty criminals, there really shouldn’t be a whole lot of angst spent on the decision.

This is yet another one of those limiting and self-defeating parameters that is placed on Superman. Most of the heroes on TV cop shows take lives upon occasion– with nary an outcry. Harry Potter (so I’m told) has killed. Heck, even sweet and innocent Dorothy Gale inadvertently dispatched not one but two witches in the Wizard of Oz. But if some evil henchmen happen to croak in Supes' proximity, this is taken as evidence of the insidious deconstruction of the character – trying to make him “bad ass” for a modern audience.

I don’t think so.
I always knew there was more going on with that girl than meets the eye........

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Old 08-25-2011, 12:29 PM   #121
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaoth View Post
John Byrne's take on Superman was very progressive for its time.
Superman should kill if he needs to.
This "no kill no matter what" code is clearly a Sacred Cow.
Thus it must be put down.
I predict Superman will kill out of necessity in MOS.
I find it amusing how some seem to forget Superman #22 (one of the best ever) from the majestic and truly iconic Byrne run, and of course, Superman killing Zod in Superman II, and allowing Ursa and Non to die as well.
Quote:
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I think in this case he needs to.
Just one time, to show that he can do it.
Just to kill the Sacred Cow that this issue has become.
This is just like the trunks, it has to go.
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Like I said Godzilla,
The issue has become a sacred cow.
Have you read the Supergirl storyline that culminated in Superman's execution of Zod and his cohorts (from and in the Pocket Universe) in Byrne's majestic Superman #22?
Out of necessity, Superman had to be judge and executioner.
You try to present your perspective, by going to extremes, displaying Sentry in full loco mode.
What Superman was "intended to be" is being revisited and adjusted accordingly. (BTW, Marvel's Supreme Power is awesome!)
Make a new character if you don't like the "Sacred Cow". Don't **** up existing characters that actually mean something because you think idealism is old fashioned.

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Old 08-25-2011, 01:37 PM   #122
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
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He did it not because he was supposed to but because he had to.
I think MOS should have a situation where he is placed in exactly that situation, in order to slay the sacred cow that Superman can't kill.
It has to happen.
Why does it have to happen?

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Make a new character if you don't like the "Sacred Cow". Don't **** up existing characters that actually mean something because you think idealism is old fashioned.
Agreed. There are plenty of characters based on the Superman archetype who kill, so if you want a Superman who kills, there are plenty out there.

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Old 08-25-2011, 01:43 PM   #123
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

It's about preserving an ideal.

Sure it'd be more realistic for him to kill.

But I like looking up to a character whose morals are unshakeable. Who stands for something.

The minute you start compromising, you kinda don't stand as strong IMO.

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Old 08-25-2011, 01:49 PM   #124
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Compromise itself could be a strength, and frankly, Superman should be put into situations where he's got no other choice but to kill. This Superman? No, because it'd amplify that act into something that Superman does fairly often. And hell, even Batman (a character who it would be understandable if he killed once in a while) had a movie basically advertising his ideals.

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Old 08-25-2011, 02:12 PM   #125
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Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. View Post
Kind of an odd and loaded question, no?

Should Luke Skywalker kill? As a general rule, no - he shouldn’t. Killing is bad. But in the course of his narrative, he has taken life and his status as noble hero is still secure. Context is everything.
Luke is a soldier and a pilot in a war. He's killed a ton of people-like everyone on the Death Star. But Superman is not a warrior. He's a hero, and an ideal. Part of why he has a code against killing is because he is so supremely powerful that he doesn't have to. When he (as Superboy) acted as Star Boy's defense council during his murder trial, one point he made was that not all Legionnaires were invulnerable like he, Supergirl, Mon-El or Ultra Boy are.

Superman should absolutely not kill under any circumstances, and if he were to be put in some completely inescapable situation where he has no choice but to kill, then his very next action should be to expose himself to Gold Kryptonite and give up his powers forever. Superman's morals are as super as the rest of him.

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