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Old 01-07-2014, 10:34 AM   #401
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I do not think that's the case at all. I believe it has more to do with the fact everyone has moved on. There's no reason to revisit Returns when you have taken the character in a new direction and restarted the franchise. WB may have been split on the film due to the BO but I think Singer and his producers are completely happy with the film.
It's more or less obvious.

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And Superman Returns was not any more depressing than MOS. One of the common complaints I heard from average movie goers was that MOS did not have enough light moments.
One of the most common criticism was exactly that. Ironically, they were saying that "Donner knew better" and that the character was no fun anymore.

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I believe it will be several years before we see an alternate cut. Singer pretty much said that the current version was essentially the director's cut and he felt no pressure to make one. It was more of a case that he felt some scenes did not fit, although I think he was talking specifically about the RTK scene.
RTK should have been released in the SR extras.

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Old 01-07-2014, 11:17 AM   #402
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

Singerman should have punched something. Then there would probably be less complaint.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:35 AM   #403
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Singerman should have punched something. Then there would probably be less complaint.
That and Peters's giant spider and no one would be thinking Superman's son was a problem. True.

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Old 01-07-2014, 11:47 AM   #404
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

There should have been more action to balance things out. There really should have been more everything to balance that out, but there were hardly any touching moments that involved Superman or Clark. He was either getting his ass kicked or staring like some lovesick fool at Lois.

Meh...I still don't understand what Singer was trying to do and I still wonder why in the hell he didn't just start from scratch instead of using Donner's old template. He set himself up for failure.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.

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Old 01-07-2014, 11:59 AM   #405
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

This film had two major problems: the climax, and the casting of Lois Lane.

In the climax, it would have helped to have a supervillain for Superman to fight. Doomsday would have made sense with Singer going the whole death / resurrection route, and furthermore Doomsday wouldn't have really required an additional character arc as he's a mindless beast. Make Doomsday the "alien technology" that protects Lex's new landmass, rather than just a ton of kryptonite. The action in the film was great apart from the climax (the plain crash scene is very good).

Lois was miscast in almost every way, and the script didn't help her much by turning her into an unlikable, petty woman.

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Old 01-07-2014, 12:45 PM   #406
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There should have been more action to balance things out. There really should have been more everything to balance that out, but there were hardly any touching moments that involved Superman or Clark. He was either getting his ass kicked or starting like some lovesick fool at Lois.
On the contrary, there was the scene where they fly together and she realizes she's still in love with him but can't leave Richard because he is also a good man. She says this to Superman and he accepts her decision. There's a painful separation.

Then there's Superman's speech to Jason.

Not once was he a fool and only once he was beaten when weakened by Kryptonite.

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Meh...I still don't want what Singer was trying to do and I still wonder why in the hell he didn't just start from scratch instead of using Donner's old template. He set himself up for failure.
He was obviously trying to create a sequel to Donner's movies. And pretty much every movie can fail, but the worst thing you can do is not trying, or not following your instincts.


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This film had two major problems: the climax, and the casting of Lois Lane.

In the climax, it would have helped to have a supervillain for Superman to fight. Doomsday would have made sense with Singer going the whole death / resurrection route, and furthermore Doomsday wouldn't have really required an additional character arc as he's a mindless beast. Make Doomsday the "alien technology" that protects Lex's new landmass, rather than just a ton of kryptonite. The action in the film was great apart from the climax (the plain crash scene is very good).

Lois was miscast in almost every way, and the script didn't help her much by turning her into an unlikable, petty woman.
Lois started her real thing when she was a prisoner of Luthor and had to keep his son out of danger. That put her above many other love interests I've seen.

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Old 01-07-2014, 01:21 PM   #407
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

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There should have been more action to balance things out. There really should have been more everything to balance that out, but there were hardly any touching moments that involved Superman or Clark. He was either getting his ass kicked or staring like some lovesick fool at Lois.

Meh...I still don't understand what Singer was trying to do and I still wonder why in the hell he didn't just start from scratch instead of using Donner's old template. He set himself up for failure.
Because at the time there was a strong feeling that the those movies were the standard and many people at the time felt Singer using Donner's universe was a smart way to go. There were a few detractors, but overall the response was positive.

The only mistake Singer made IMO by using that template was hem hawing around and saying it was a quasi-sequel. He should have flat out said they were treating the movie as if it was after Superman II.


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This film had two major problems: the climax, and the casting of Lois Lane.

In the climax, it would have helped to have a supervillain for Superman to fight. Doomsday would have made sense with Singer going the whole death / resurrection route, and furthermore Doomsday wouldn't have really required an additional character arc as he's a mindless beast. Make Doomsday the "alien technology" that protects Lex's new landmass, rather than just a ton of kryptonite. The action in the film was great apart from the climax (the plain crash scene is very good).

Lois was miscast in almost every way, and the script didn't help her much by turning her into an unlikable, petty woman.

This was my only problem with the film. She was too young and didn't having the acting chops to pull off what the role required. I think Kerri Russell would have done much better, as it was her that was rumored to be favored for the part before Spacey suggested Bosworth to Singer. She did have a couple of solid moments in the film though. Overall, she was spotty.

While I loved the idea of the Krypton laced island, I definitely feel Singer should have expanded on Lex's line about having advanced alien technology with weapons he made from the crystals. This could have enhanced the threat of Lex and upped the action, while not introducing a super villain. Doomsday is too big of a story arch to introduce in the first film of a new franchise. He should be the final battle.

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Old 01-07-2014, 07:55 PM   #408
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

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I believe it will be several years before we see an alternate cut. Singer pretty much said that the current version was essentially the director's cut and he felt no pressure to make one. It was more of a case that he felt some scenes did not fit, although I think he was talking specifically about the RTK scene.
Maybe WB will just do one at some point, but I aint getting my hopes up.

As for the climax I loved what we got in the movie, it was powerful stuff for me, Superman picking up and throwing the last remnant of his home world into space to save his adopted world. Its the culmination of the theme of the movie, alienation. Superman is feeling alone the whole movie, hence his return to Krypton at the start, he cant seem to let his home planet go because he feels alienated on Earth.

Then he does what he does to New Krypton, nearly killing himself in process, and finally letting go of his home world, then falling back to Earth with the humans watching helplessly. He is then told by Lois that there IS someone else like him in the universe, and its his son. Powerful stuff IMO.

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Old 01-07-2014, 09:30 PM   #409
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On the contrary, there was the scene where they fly together and she realizes she's still in love with him but can't leave Richard because he is also a good man. She says this to Superman and he accepts her decision. There's a painful separation.
Okay those are touching scenes, but they were painful. Each one was marked by some sort of heartbreak or loss. That's not really the touching kind of moment I was looking for or wanted.

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Then there's Superman's speech to Jason.
Again, another scene marked by loss. Sure that's touching, but it's painful. I wanted something more uplifting. I expected that from a movie using Donner's light and easy-going template as a formula.

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Not once was he a fool and only once he was beaten when weakened by Kryptonite.
I had corrected that. I meant he was staring like a fool at Lois when he was super-stalking by spying through her wall. As for the action...ugh...the one time he was beaten was the only action in the movie. It's too bad it was Luther doing all the ass kicking.

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He was obviously trying to create a sequel to Donner's movies. And pretty much every movie can fail, but the worst thing you can do is not trying, or not following your instincts.
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Because at the time there was a strong feeling that the those movies were the standard and many people at the time felt Singer using Donner's universe was a smart way to go. There were a few detractors, but overall the response was positive.

The only mistake Singer made IMO by using that template was hem hawing around and saying it was a quasi-sequel. He should have flat out said they were treating the movie as if it was after Superman II.
He should have created his vision without trying to make a sequel. That was damn foolish in the first place. It made no sense then and I still don't understand how it made sense to Singer seven years ago. He doesn't get an "A" for effort because he followed his instincts. He gets an "F" because he ****ed up.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:03 PM   #410
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Okay those are touching scenes, but they were painful. Each one was marked by some sort of heartbreak or loss. That's not really the touching kind of moment I was looking for or wanted.
Of course, touching moments often come from sadness, not complete joy. Nothing new. Now, painful, heartbreaking moments is something MOS doesn't fall short of.

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Again, another scene marked by loss. Sure that's touching, but it's painful. I wanted something more uplifting. I expected that from a movie using Donner's light and easy-going template as a formula.
In fact, as painful as it was, it meant gain for Superman. It is when he knows he has a son that he feels his life made sense and that Lois at his side was not the biggest thing he could accomplish.

And well, in your words, SR was not predictable as Donner';s movies. Good for SR.

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I had corrected that. I meant he was staring like a fool at Lois when he was super-stalking by spying through her wall. As for the action...ugh...the one time he was beaten was the only action in the movie. It's too bad it was Luther doing all the ass kicking.
Oh, haha. Should we make a list of superheroes looking like fools in love before their love interests.

And no, rescuing the plane, rescuing Metropolis from the earthquake's consequences, saving Lois and Jason and Richard. That was action as well. But yes, yes, you only saw the movie once so one has to keep reminding you facts.

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He should have created his vision without trying to make a sequel. That was damn foolish in the first place. It made no sense then and I still don't understand how it made sense to Singer seven years ago. He doesn't get an "A" for effort because he followed his instincts. He gets an "F" because he ****ed up.
"A" is like 97-100%, is it not? I don't give SR an A myself. Now, what is "F"? Like 56%. Oh, wait...

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Old 01-08-2014, 08:15 AM   #411
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It wasn't that depressing. I mean, it wasn't like Pa Kent encouraged Clark to not save people or killed himself for no reason or Superman had to kill.
It isnt about one or two particular scenes. A movie has ups and downs to make it interesting. But SR tone is primarily depressing and helpless. making u feel like the space getting smaller n smaller... cant develop...

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Old 01-08-2014, 08:30 AM   #412
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It wasn't that depressing. I mean, it wasn't like Pa Kent encouraged Clark to not save people or killed himself for no reason or Superman had to kill.
It isnt about one or two particular scenes. A movie has ups and downs to make it interesting. But SR tone is primarily depressing and helpless. making u feel like the space getting smaller n smaller... cant develop...

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Old 01-08-2014, 10:18 AM   #413
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Metallo where have you been?! I have not seen you in the Wrestling Thread in ages!
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Because at the time there was a strong feeling that the those movies were the standard and many people at the time felt Singer using Donner's universe was a smart way to go. There were a few detractors, but overall the response was positive.

The only mistake Singer made IMO by using that template was hem hawing around and saying it was a quasi-sequel. He should have flat out said they were treating the movie as if it was after Superman II.





This was my only problem with the film. She was too young and didn't having the acting chops to pull off what the role required. I think Kerri Russell would have done much better, as it was her that was rumored to be favored for the part before Spacey suggested Bosworth to Singer. She did have a couple of solid moments in the film though. Overall, she was spotty.

While I loved the idea of the Krypton laced island, I definitely feel Singer should have expanded on Lex's line about having advanced alien technology with weapons he made from the crystals. This could have enhanced the threat of Lex and upped the action, while not introducing a super villain. Doomsday is too big of a story arch to introduce in the first film of a new franchise. He should be the final battle.
That and if Singer wanted to do a return story and the kind of story he wanted with Lois moved on I can understand why he'd want to use a version of Superman people are already familiar with and invested in. That makes it all mean more. The Reeve films were the most recognizable film version of superman at the time and Singer got the added bonus of using iconic elements that made for great cinema.

But to me even then SR isn't even a true continuation of the first two movies. There are still noticeable differences and retcons. Events similar to those of the Donner Superman happened to Singers but they were also different. It's an alternate universe version of that Superman from the very beginning (to use comic book ideas). There have been other examples of that on film. That's why a Singers vague history explanation fits. singers superman has a history similar to donners but it isn't the same.

If it were my choice I would have had Posey and Bosworth switch roles. Posey had the right age and experience to play a Lois at that stage in her life and a Bosworth would have been been more believable as a young easily led astray dish for Luthor. And Spacey would have gotten his wish to work with Kate again. Not the best scenario for the marketers and the studio and I'm sure but it would have made for a better more convincing film and cast.

If they'd done a reboot with the same cast instead if have used James Karen for Pa Kent.

I also agree that if Luthor had used the crystal technology to create a Doomsday to guard his new continent it would have done a lot to satisfy some people with other issues with the movie. His boney protrusions could have been crystal like and he could have had Kryptonite laced blood (like an idea from Superman Lives). He could have grown him in a chamber or something. Like you I think that should be saved for later but it would have solved the lack of action issue.


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Old 01-08-2014, 11:10 AM   #414
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Of course, touching moments often come from sadness, not complete joy. Nothing new. Now, painful, heartbreaking moments is something MOS doesn't fall short of.
That is true, but MOS also had uplifting moments. Plus, I'm sure this is an issue of taste since you have pointed out scenes in SR you felt were uplifting. Conversely for me, I didn't feel there were any moments like that in SR.

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In fact, as painful as it was, it meant gain for Superman. It is when he knows he has a son that he feels his life made sense and that Lois at his side was not the biggest thing he could accomplish. And well, in your words, SR was not predictable as Donner';s movies. Good for SR.
You know it's sad because I was incredibly surprised Singer added Jason to the story. I thought at the time it was an incredibly bold and inspired choice, but now in hindsight it's hard to think he wasn't off his rocker since he didn't properly explain the conception, or why Superman chose to leave earth in the first place after being told by Jor Krypton was destroyed. I have also read Singer planned on having Superman KILL Jason at some point...

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Oh, haha. Should we make a list of superheroes looking like fools in love before their love interests.
No, we should make a list of those who stalk their girlfriends using their x-ray vision to spy on them. I think that will be a really short list.

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And no, rescuing the plane, rescuing Metropolis from the earthquake's consequences, saving Lois and Jason and Richard. That was action as well. But yes, yes, you only saw the movie once so one has to keep reminding you facts.
I don't need to see the movie more than once to remember it lacked action...lol. Matter of fact go back and read my review from 7 years ago. You seem so found of mentioning it at any other time. That was my initial reaction right after seeing the movie (when it was still fresh in my mind) and I mentioned the lack of action then too.

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"A" is like 97-100%, is it not? I don't give SR an A myself. Now, what is "F"? Like 56%. Oh, wait...
Haha...that's like all you can bring up to say MOS was a failure in your eyes; yet all other evidence says otherwise. Hold on to that RT percentage if it makes you feel better, and continue to wait patiently for Bryan Singer to finish his gripping Superman story... Keep waiting for that.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:54 AM   #415
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It isnt about one or two particular scenes. A movie has ups and downs to make it interesting. But SR tone is primarily depressing and helpless. making u feel like the space getting smaller n smaller... cant develop...
On the contrary, much like many other superhero movies, SR had plenty of humor.

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That is true, but MOS also had uplifting moments. Plus, I'm sure this is an issue of taste since you have pointed out scenes in SR you felt were uplifting. Conversely for me, I didn't feel there were any moments like that in SR.
Superman rescuing the plane and being cheered, Superman rescuing Lois, Richard and Jason. There are some of them and some depressing ones, just like in MOS.

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You know it's sad because I was incredibly surprised Singer added Jason to the story. I thought at the time it was an incredibly bold and inspired choice, but now in hindsight it's hard to think he wasn't off his rocker since he didn't properly explain the conception, or why Superman chose to leave earth in the first place after being told by Jor Krypton was destroyed. I have also read Singer planned on having Superman KILL Jason at some point...
Well, Jason was not killed so why would we complain about someting that didn't happen?

That said, I have said myself in this very thread that Singer needed to explain the premises of the movie much better. Jason's conception, reasons for leaving earthy, reason for not saying good-bye (although this wasn't necessary as Superman leaving was reason enough for Lois to be hurt).

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No, we should make a list of those who stalk their girlfriends using their x-ray vision to spy on them. I think that will be a really short list.
Yes: Superman. He did it when Clarek knew Lois's purse content STM.

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I don't need to see the movie more than once to remember it lacked action...lol. Matter of fact go back and read my review from 7 years ago. You seem so found of mentioning it at any other time. That was my initial reaction right after seeing the movie (when it was still fresh in my mind) and I mentioned the lack of action then too.
And yet, the movie had action scenes.

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Haha...that's like all you can bring up to say MOS was a failure in your eyes; yet all other evidence says otherwise. Hold on to that RT percentage if it makes you feel better, and continue to wait patiently for Bryan Singer to finish his gripping Superman story... Keep waiting for that.
I have never said MOS was a failure. It made good money, did it not? I'll better wait for a Superman sequel. Will get a Justice League movie instead.

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Old 01-08-2014, 09:26 PM   #416
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On the contrary, much like many other superhero movies, SR had plenty of humor.

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Superman rescuing the plane and being cheered, Superman rescuing Lois, Richard and Jason. There are some of them and some depressing ones, just like in MOS.



Well, Jason was not killed so why would we complain about someting that didn't happen?

That said, I have said myself in this very thread that Singer needed to explain the premises of the movie much better. Jason's conception, reasons for leaving earthy, reason for not saying good-bye (although this wasn't necessary as Superman leaving was reason enough for Lois to be hurt).



Yes: Superman. He did it when Clarek knew Lois's purse content STM.



And yet, the movie had action scenes.



I have never said MOS was a failure. It made good money, did it not? I'll better wait for a Superman sequel. Will get a Justice League movie instead.
yes. There r some laughters and some good action saving deeds in SR. However, overall it feels like superman is dying inside. It can't expand. All the new elements introduced by singer are bad if not terrible. His world is getting smaller. Make u feel like It's best for him to hang his Cape and be man up to take up the responsibility to raise his son whom he has searched for the entire galaxy.

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Old 01-09-2014, 02:54 PM   #417
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Superman rescuing the plane and being cheered, Superman rescuing Lois, Richard and Jason. There are some of them and some depressing ones, just like in MOS.
Again, it's a matter of personal taste. I didn't like SR and I wasn't uplifted by its uplifting moments. I'm not denying MOS doesn't have depressing moments, but I found its uplifting moments to be more uplifting.

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Well, Jason was not killed so why would we complain about someting that didn't happen?
I'm not complaining. Thank God there is no more future for SR, but I was referring to what I had read about Singer's future plans for Jason if there had been a sequel. *shakes head* It makes me wonder even more what in the hell he was thinking, and so glad there will never be anything more to "Singerman".

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Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury View Post
That said, I have said myself in this very thread that Singer needed to explain the premises of the movie much better. Jason's conception, reasons for leaving earthy, reason for not saying good-bye (although this wasn't necessary as Superman leaving was reason enough for Lois to be hurt).
There were things Singer could have done differently, but I really don't think he had a good vision for Superman. Looking back on interviews he gave back then it's really obvious he had a very one dimensional outlook on the character. He was not the right person to bring Superman back to the screen after a 20 year wait, and he would have done better if he had stuck with X-Men. Those types of characters and their melodrama are more aligned to the type of stories Singer seems to like to tell.

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Yes: Superman. He did it when Clarek knew Lois's purse content STM.
*shakes head* Okay...I won't even debate this if you are comparing those two incidents.

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And yet, the movie had action scenes.
Okay how about I phrase this differently. The action in SR sucked.

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I have never said MOS was a failure. It made good money, did it not? I'll better wait for a Superman sequel. Will get a Justice League movie instead.
You keep saying that, but you don't have any proof this isn't a sequel. I think it just makes you feel better to keep saying that because there is no sequel to SR.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:10 PM   #418
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yes. There r some laughters and some good action saving deeds in SR. However, overall it feels like superman is dying inside. It can't expand. All the new elements introduced by singer are bad if not terrible. His world is getting smaller. Make u feel like It's best for him to hang his Cape and be man up to take up the responsibility to raise his son whom he has searched for the entire galaxy.
Much as the rest of his personal life, Superman's fatherhood won't be normal. Nevertheless the inclusion of a son gave the whole story a sense of closure to the fatherhood theme that started in STM (with Jor-el and Jonathan). And Superman will always be around for Lois and Jason, so don't worry. Opposite of dying, his fatherhood gave him a new meaning to his life.

Now if for making Superman's world smaller, I'd say that eliminating the Clark-Lois-Superman dynamic is doing precisely that.


******************************


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Again, it's a matter of personal taste. I didn't like SR and I wasn't uplifted by its uplifting moments. I'm not denying MOS doesn't have depressing moments, but I found its uplifting moments to be more uplifting.
Yes, you not liking them doesn't make them nonexistent.

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I'm not complaining. Thank God there is no more future for SR, but I was referring to what I had read about Singer's future plans for Jason if there had been a sequel. *shakes head* It makes me wonder even more what in the hell he was thinking, and so glad there will never be anything more to "Singerman".
Well, drafts, sketches and ideas come and go in every movie. What would have a SR sequel been like? No one can tell.

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There were things Singer could have done differently, but I really don't think he had a good vision for Superman. Looking back on interviews he gave back then it's really obvious he had a very one dimensional outlook on the character. He was not the right person to bring Superman back to the screen after a 20 year wait, and he would have done better if he had stuck with X-Men. Those types of characters and their melodrama are more aligned to the type of stories Singer seems to like to tell.
Well, he got right the fact that Superman save people whenever he can.

And his fatherhood and feeling of loneliness (that MOS rescued ) were far more than the classic one-dimensional day-saver superhero take.

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*shakes head* Okay...I won't even debate this if you are comparing those two incidents.
This Superman does spy. Fact.

But he's not a stalker or peeping tom, for those who know the actual meaning of those terms.

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Okay how about I phrase this differently. The action in SR sucked.
That's right. You didn't like it. Again, doesn't make them nonexistent.

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You keep saying that, but you don't have any proof this isn't a sequel. I think it just makes you feel better to keep saying that because there is no sequel to SR.
Oh, it IS a sequel. THAT's the sad part of it.

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Old 01-09-2014, 03:12 PM   #419
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

My 2 cents:

Superman Returns was truly horrible Superman movie. Having Superman find out he has a bastard son that's been raised by another man is just a terrible story line for Superman. Giving Superman no super villains to fight and then having him throw basically an island of kryptonite into space is wildly stupid. It's his only weakness, if he can lift an island laced with it into orbit then it's really not much of a weakness is it. And having Lex be so pathetic he has to sexually swindle an old woman for some cash makes him terribly pathetic, not to mention his scheme makes no sense at all (like the world's countries wouldn't just take the hunk of rock from him by force, if there were any real value in that hunk of rock).

Man of Steel was also a pretty bad Superman movie, but not as bad. The "advanced" Kryptonian society still gets around by riding animals? Superman just stands there and lets his human father die because his secret identity takes precedence? Wow, big hero. And, as Seinfeld said, "I thought the glossing over of the figuring out a secret identity and why he felt he needed one was a huge missed opportunity for that character, and one of the most interesting things about Superman is the whole secret identity. So to me it was too much action / violence and not enough character study.”
But at least it was the first time they got Superman's action right in a live action movie.

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Old 01-09-2014, 03:18 PM   #420
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

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Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury View Post
Yes, you not liking them doesn't make them nonexistent.
They're nonexistent for me.
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Well, drafts, sketches and ideas come and go in every movie. What would have a SR sequel been like? No one can tell.
I'm glad we'll never find out.
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Well, he got right the fact that Superman save people whenever he can. And his fatherhood and feeling of loneliness (that MOS rescued ) were far more than the classic one-dimensional day-saver superhero take.
In my opinion Singer got nothing right in SR. It was a complete and utter failure as a CBM.
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This Superman does spy. Fact. But he's not a stalker or peeping tom, for those who know the actual meaning of those terms.
*shakes head* Not worth debating this.
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That's right. You didn't like it. Again, doesn't make them nonexistent.
Makes it nonexistent for me.
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Oh, it IS a sequel. THAT's the sad part of it.
Nothing sad about to me.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.

Last edited by charl_huntress; 01-09-2014 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:22 PM   #421
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

This is a good review to show the many reasons Man of Steel was terrible, btw:
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...-man-of-steel/

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Old 01-09-2014, 03:23 PM   #422
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

I feel sorry or those who didn't like Man of Steel. It was great for me. Superman Returns though is garbage.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 01-09-2014, 03:39 PM   #423
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They're nonexistent for me.
You said that MOS's "uplifting moments to be more uplifting" than those in SR. That's admitting there were uplifting moments in SR. Your words. You cannot have something "more uplifting" than something that doesn't exist.

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I'm glad we'll never find out.
So you see how opinions on this are irrelevant.

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In my opinion Singer got nothing right in SR. It was a complete and utter failure as a CBM.
Still Superman saved people whenever he can. That's fact, and is getting Superman right. And Superman's feeling of loneliness was indeed rescued by MOS.

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*shakes head* Not worth debating this.
Why? You think Superman did indeed spy on Lois from the very beginning of Donner's take?

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Makes it nonexistent for me.
Your words: "The action in SR sucked." How can something suck if it doesn't exist.

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Nothing sad about to me.
Only for people who believe Superman is worth of his own sequel.

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I feel sorry or those who didn't like Man of Steel. It was great for me. Superman Returns though is garbage.
"I feel sorry or those who didn't like Superman Returns. It was great for me. Man of Steel though is garbage"? Come on.

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Old 01-09-2014, 03:59 PM   #424
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You said that MOS's "uplifting moments to be more uplifting" than those in SR. That's admitting there were uplifting moments in SR. Your words. You cannot have something "more uplifting" than something that doesn't exist.
My word...okay then. There are uplifting moments in SR; however, I did not find them particularly uplifting.

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So you see how opinions on this are irrelevant.
I really only brought it up because it goes back to my question on what Singer was thinking by adding Jason. The fact he had plans to have Superman actually kill his own son in a later installment is...crazy! It really makes me wonder what he was doing, and why did he use Donner's template to make a quasi-sequel when the tone of the previous movies didn't lend themselves to the sort of tone he wanted. It really makes no sense to me.

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Still Superman saved people whenever he can. That's fact, and is getting Superman right. And Superman's feeling of loneliness was indeed rescued by MOS.
I don't understand what you mean by rescued by MOS? What does that mean? Again, SR failed on many levels and is an utter failure as a CBM. Notice I don't say it's a bad movie. It's well-crafted and well-directed...it just sucks as a CBM because it's boring and sad.

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Why? You think Superman did indeed spy on Lois from the very beginning of Donner's take?
I can't believe you are a comparing a light hearted moment in STM, which was used for gags, to a scene in SR where Superman is spying on Lois, Richard and Jason because he's sad.

*shakes head* I won't even go there.

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Your words: "The action in SR sucked." How can something suck if it doesn't exist.
Ahh...semantics again. There is action in SR, but it sucks. Is that better? Is that clearer now?

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Only for people who believe Superman is worth of his own sequel.
He is getting a sequel. You keep saying he's not, but he is, so I don't get your point.


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"I feel sorry or those who didn't like Superman Returns. It was great for me. Man of Steel though is garbage"? Come on.
I think Superman Returns is garbage. I really enjoy MOS and think it's a great film. Obviously some people feel differently. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me because my feelings aren't going to change, and I'm not trying to change anyone else's opinion.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:14 PM   #425
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Default Re: What's So Bad About Superman Returns?

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Much as the rest of his personal life, Superman's fatherhood won't be normal. Nevertheless the inclusion of a son gave the whole story a sense of closure to the fatherhood theme that started in STM (with Jor-el and Jonathan). And Superman will always be around for Lois and Jason, so don't worry. Opposite of dying, his fatherhood gave him a new meaning to his life.

Now if for making Superman's world smaller, I'd say that eliminating the Clark-Lois-Superman

But he's not a stalker or peeping tom, for those who know the actual meaning of those terms.

Yes, if SR got a sequel, it's better to let Lois go and introduce new romance to Clark. And doing superman as father story... u know like zorro got a son story... However its a suicidal move as v very few audience interested in it.




Oh, it IS a sequel. THAT's the sad part of it.
A closure to a movie made 30 years ago??? That's exactly why SR is paralysed and can't stand by itself. We were looking for a beginning. But he offered us an ending.

A perfect reason why SR got no sequel. Poor Routh thought he gonna carry a new franchise.

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The superman returns comics strips were created during the production of the movie in 2005 we were longing a superman movie too long and we were basically going crazy of every bit of the leaked news and rumours. let's the fun returns!

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