Simon Kinberg Penning First Class Sequel

[FilmNerdJamie]

Originally Posted by TheWiseGuy487

He wrote X-Men: The Last Stand, which was directed by Brett Ratner, and that ended up being bad.

Kinberg did all his work under Matthew Vaughn's supervision. Before Vaughn ran and quit two weeks before filming started.

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

Summer 2014 sounds about right to me. And with that more extended timeline they can also give Vaughn a much lengthier production time. Anything to entice him back. I know FOX wants him back, I just really really hope HE wants to come back for it. Who would have thought that sequel news could be so disheartening?

Yeah, that makes sense to me, and I hope that's what ends up happening. With The Wolverine apparently headed for a 2013 release, it'd make sense for First Class II (I know that won't be the title, just work with me here ) to come out in 2014. Putting two X-movies out in the same year would be a mistake, and I'm sure they won't feel the need to do that. FC2 should get plenty of time to gestate, which I think will only help it.

[Lightning Strykez!]

*sigh*

2005/2006 were dark years here on the Hype, and much was attributed to the writing of this guy.

One thing he'd (and Fox) would like us to forget, is that he also wrote the first Fantastic Four film.

[flickchick85]

For his last 3 movies, Vaughn and Goldman have gotten to do the final pass at the screenplays. If Vaughn's directing this one, I wouldn't expect that to change. I'll feel much better when they announce Vaughn's involvement in the project.

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

Kinberg did all his work under Matthew Vaughn's supervision. Before Vaughn ran and quit two weeks before filming started.

Well, Kinberg was hired to write the screenplay in August of 2004. Vaughn was hired to direct 7 months later (March 21st '05), and left the project less than 2.5 months after that (June 1st). Ratner was hired on June 5th, and filming didn't start 'til August so I doubt Kinberg he did all his work under Vaughn's supervision.

[Superhero 101]

Not to happy about Kinberg should get the ones who penned the first one

[mclay18]

This is like the Thor fans raising a stink over Don Payne being hired to write Thor 2, but his script for Thor was rewritten by Ashley Miller & Zack Stentz. It's likely the same will happen for that film, and this one.

I'm pretty sure if Vaughn comes back to direct an X:FC sequel, he and his BFF Jane Goldman will do the final rewrite/pass before filming. No worries, especially if Fox is doing a similar plan like they are for that Rise of the Apes sequel. Does Matthew Vaughn have a sequel clause in his contract when he did X:FC? If so, Fox would be smart to exercise that, to ensure his involvement.

[Balthus Dire]

Why in the name of Odin's beard would they ever hire anyone who wrote even single sentence of X-Men: The Last Stand?


Like......FOX....what the.........

[the a1ant]

Originally Posted by rashad

I'm hoping he's just writing the 1st draft and another writer will take a pass at it. I don't trust him writing this alone. lol

This.

I'm positive there will be other writers for future drafts though. Hopefully he's basing his screenplay off a treatment by Singer or Vaughn.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

This news makes me

It's only appropriate that I'm currently listening to Ludacris' "Oh No!" song.

Oh, and this is coming from someone who loves X-Men: The Last Stand.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by TheWiseGuy487

I'm noticing a pattern with this guy. It seems like the quality of his screenplays is dependent on whoever is directing the film.

He wrote X-Men: The Last Stand, which was directed by Brett Ratner, and that ended up being bad.

But, he wrote Sherlock Holmes, which was directed by Guy Ritchie, and that ended up being pretty good.

So, if my math is right, Simon Kinberg + Matthew Vaughn = Pretty Good Screenplay?

Not to mention that Simon Kinberg was a producer on X-Men: First Class, and we know how that turned out.

I'm willing to give this guy another chance. If he does good, then good. If he does bad, then we probably won't hear about him again. It's a win-win situation.

To the bolded: I don't buy that, because Kinberg wrote the script under the watch and direction of Matthew Vaughn.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

For his last 3 movies, Vaughn and Goldman have gotten to do the final pass at the screenplays. If Vaughn's directing this one, I wouldn't expect that to change. I'll feel much better when they announce Vaughn's involvement in the project.


Well, Kinberg was hired to write the screenplay in August of 2004. Vaughn was hired to direct 7 months later (March 21st '05), and left the project less than 2.5 months after that (June 1st). Ratner was hired on June 5th, and filming didn't start 'til August so I doubt Kinberg he did all his work under Vaughn's supervision.

The infamous "7 Day Script" (which is the foundation of X-Men: The Last Stand, and the source of pretty much every hated element of the movie) was written by Kinberg, Zak Penn, and Matthew Vaughn.

After Vaughn's departure, Penn said something to the effect of "If you guys think -this- is bad (the movie we got) it was going to be 10x worse with Vaughn" (paraphrasing, not quoting) and proceeded to list off a bunch of even worse ideas that were scrapped from the actual shooting script after Vaughn left.

I'm not comfortable with Vaughn, Kinberg, or Penn being involved with any X-Men movies.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Well, having been eagerly anticipating FC2 news, I take this news with a bit of dissapointment, my hate for X3 has dissapated over the years, but it is still a very poor movies in my eyes, and i'll never forget how angry I was with X3 at the time.

Kinberg is a crap writer, his resume is proof of this, even when people say he wrote Sherlock Holmes, which was a decent movie, but a lot of improv was used on set, so I doubt much of his dialogue was in the movie. Very dissapointed with this news, but if I hear in the next few weeks confirmation of Vaughn's involvement, I will be a happy man again.

[chamber-music]

Hopefully Jane Goldman comes and does a rewrite or another draft on Kinbergs script

[BMM]

While I’m no fan of The Last Stand, I wouldn’t be so quick to make comparisons between this movie and that one. You can’t point to Kinberg and Vaughn’s work on The Last Stand and say they’re responsible for all the bad things in the movie, as though they were simply left in a room together and made all the wrong choices.

There were a lot of issues with that movie, some stemming from Singer’s departure and some otherwise, such as unavoidable contract renegotiations (You want the waffling Halle Berry back? You’re probably going to have to give more screen time to her less than stellar Storm at the expense of other characters), short production schedule, studio parameters (The Cure storyline—Rothman’s idea, No Cyclops—Fox supposedly discussed killing him off between movies), asinine decisions from the top down (Rogue being cured), idiotic directorial choices (questionable casting, awful pacing, “I’m the Juggernaut, *****!”), etc.

We didn’t have a lot of those problems with First Class, and the movie came out great. Hopefully, we won’t have those problems with the sequel either.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

The infamous "7 Day Script" (which is the foundation of X-Men: The Last Stand, and the source of pretty much every hated element of the movie) was written by Kinberg, Zak Penn, and Matthew Vaughn.

After Vaughn's departure, Penn said something to the effect of "If you guys think -this- is bad (the movie we got) it was going to be 10x worse with Vaughn" (paraphrasing, not quoting) and proceeded to list off a bunch of even worse ideas that were scrapped from the actual shooting script after Vaughn left.

I'm not comfortable with Vaughn, Kinberg, or Penn being involved with any X-Men movies.

I'm actually not a fan of any of Vaughn's screenwritten/directed movies except First Class (that's right folks, I'm an anomaly who hated KickAss and Stardust). Regardless of his history with other movies, and even with X3, he clearly has the talent to pull off another XMFC. His ego meant he seemed to have control over even the most finite of details (or at least any control FOX would relinquish to him) and I really believe it's because of him the movie turned out so well. I really feel like he GETS the characters onscreen. I'm not going to get into one of those pathetic arguments with a fanboy about the "ORIGINAL FIRSTCLASS"or about how RAVEN AND CHARLES DIDN'T GROW UP TOGETHER or XAVIER WAS PARALYZED BY A ROCK WITH AN ALIEN NOT A STRAY BULLET. People need to let go of their comic book fandom and allow themselves to appreciate the story and characters as they've been presented through the movies. THAT is what Vaughn gets. And that is why they need him back.

I'm curious to know though what Vaughn's ideas were that could have made X3 "10x worse". It's possible Penn was just covering his @$$ when he threw them out there. Either way I'm very curious to know. Do you have a link?

[merbass]

One bad idea by Vaugh was the heavy sex between Logan and Ororo. Glad that didn't make it.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by merbass

One bad idea by Vaugh was the heavy sex between Logan and Ororo. Glad that didn't make it.

I would have been ok with that actually. I don't know if it goes against comic book continuity and really don't care if it does. It would have at least given the characters some CHARACTER and MV is smart enough that he'd give them a reason to do it, not just make it happen for the sake of sex happening.

[Nerial]

Eh, this doesn't give me warm, happy feelings. At best, this guy can write a fun movie (Sherlocke Holmes), and at worst, he has written real stinkers (X3, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, etc...).

I really want the XM:FC sequel to be darker than the first, and really focus on Erik's further plunge to the dark-side and Charles being totally messed up (not at the beginning of the film, but throughout it). That's not to mention the underlying social impact of mutants in the world.

Anything else would be superficial, and unfortunately, this writer doesn't seem capable of writing anything with deep impact. Maybe with Vaughn and Singer monitoring the script's progress, there's hope it'll come out well.

Still...blah news.

I'll add one more thing--they are, fortunately, giving the writer time to write, review and revise his script. That process can literally make or break a movie, and X3 is a prime example. Under that strict a timeline, any good writer would have made a stinker as well. Fingers crossed that he'll pull out a gem and everything will have time to review the script before production.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

I'm actually not a fan of any of Vaughn's screenwritten/directed movies except First Class (that's right folks, I'm an anomaly who hated KickAss and Stardust). Regardless of his history with other movies, and even with X3, he clearly has the talent to pull off another XMFC. His ego meant he seemed to have control over even the most finite of details (or at least any control FOX would relinquish to him) and I really believe it's because of him the movie turned out so well. I really feel like he GETS the characters onscreen. I'm not going to get into one of those pathetic arguments with a fanboy about the "ORIGINAL FIRSTCLASS"or about how RAVEN AND CHARLES DIDN'T GROW UP TOGETHER or XAVIER WAS PARALYZED BY A ROCK WITH AN ALIEN NOT A STRAY BULLET. People need to let go of their comic book fandom and allow themselves to appreciate the story and characters as they've been presented through the movies. THAT is what Vaughn gets. And that is why they need him back.

I'm curious to know though what Vaughn's ideas were that could have made X3 "10x worse". It's possible Penn was just covering his @$$ when he threw them out there. Either way I'm very curious to know. Do you have a link?

I agree with most of what you said, in particular the parts about the "fanboy" aspects of the film. The examples of what you claim (the different "first class", specifically no Cyclops; the Xavier / Raven relationship; how Xavier was crippled (a change for the better)) all add up to X-Men: First Class quite honestly being the least comic book accurate of the series (yes, more of a departure than X-Men: The Last Stand or X-Men Origins: Wolverine) but I would agree that it is one of the best X-Men movies.

As far as a link goes, no, I don't have a link, it's been so long ago, but I can list off a couple ideas that I remember Penn talking about:

-During the Alcatraz final battle, Vaughn apparently wanted Logan to carry Leech around in a backpack, and run around the battlefield to de-power all the mutants ( )

-During the Danger Room sequence, Vaughn wanted the Sentinel to fry Iceman down to a skeleton, killing him. Then when the simulation would end, he'd defy all logic by having Iceman come back to life and his skin re-appearing ( )

-In Vaughn's defense, I do believe the Logan / Ororo sexual relationship was a Tom Rothman idea. I could be wrong, however.

Despite how great of a movie X-Men: First Class was, I have zero confidence in Matthew Vaughn with this series. I have heard how he speaks of the past series (during his time with X-Men: The Last Stand he showed complete disrespect towards Singer's previous films, and during X-Men: First Class he showed absolute disrespect towards the other 2 movies - which I happen to enjoy quite a bit and feel they are all important chapters of the continuity. I am not a supporter of "reboots", and I do not want the X-Men movies to start rebooting each other, and I do not like the idea that Vaughn is ignoring particular installments of the series). I have heard some of his ideas for the series (pretty much every single hated aspect of X-Men: The Last Stand was from Vaughn's time with the movie - NOT Ratner's - these elements were all part of the 7 Day Script that Vaughn was a part of that got the infamous AICN script review, and Penn has listed other ideas of Vaughn's that were just terrible). And I absolutely hate his overall attitude (he seems much more interested in making "A Matthew Vaughn Film" as opposed to making an X-Men film. During X-Men: The Last Stand he constantly talked about wanting to do a blockbuster so he could become an A-lister, during X-Men: First Class he constantly talked about wanting to make a James Bond movie - X-Men is not James Bond, don't worry about making Bond movies, and worry about making X-Men movies - and the areas where Vaughn tried to stray away from making an X-Men movie, and instead tried to make a Matthew Vaughn version of a James Bond film showed, and the film suffered for it in my eyes)

I don't deny that the guy is capable - he made X-Men: First Class which is easily one of my favorite films of the entire series. I deny his direction. I feel that X-Men: First Class was great in spite of him. I feel it was great because there were people on the production that kept Vaughn on track, and kept him focused on making an X-Men movie, and didn't let him stray too far from what's been previously established. With Vaughn given more control to "ignore" and go his own way, with a ****** screen writer like Simon Kinberg in the mix, I have a real bad feeling for the future of this series.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

I agree with most of what you said, in particular the parts about the "fanboy" aspects of the film. The examples of what you claim (the different "first class", specifically no Cyclops; the Xavier / Raven relationship; how Xavier was crippled (a change for the better)) all add up to X-Men: First Class quite honestly being the least comic book accurate of the series (yes, more of a departure than X-Men: The Last Stand or X-Men Origins: Wolverine) but I would agree that it is one of the best X-Men movies.

As far as a link goes, no, I don't have a link, it's been so long ago, but I can list off a couple ideas that I remember Penn talking about:

-During the Alcatraz final battle, Vaughn apparently wanted Logan to carry Leech around in a backpack, and run around the battlefield to de-power all the mutants ( )

-During the Danger Room sequence, Vaughn wanted the Sentinel to fry Iceman down to a skeleton, killing him. Then when the simulation would end, he'd defy all logic by having Iceman come back to life and his skin re-appearing ( )

-In Vaughn's defense, I do believe the Logan / Ororo sexual relationship was a Tom Rothman idea. I could be wrong, however.

Despite how great of a movie X-Men: First Class was, I have zero confidence in Matthew Vaughn with this series. I have heard how he speaks of the past series (during his time with X-Men: The Last Stand he showed complete disrespect towards Singer's previous films, and during X-Men: First Class he showed absolute disrespect towards the other 2 movies - which I happen to enjoy quite a bit and feel they are all important chapters of the continuity. I am not a supporter of "reboots", and I do not want the X-Men movies to start rebooting each other, and I do not like the idea that Vaughn is ignoring particular installments of the series). I have heard some of his ideas for the series (pretty much every single hated aspect of X-Men: The Last Stand was from Vaughn's time with the movie - NOT Ratner's - these elements were all part of the 7 Day Script that Vaughn was a part of that got the infamous AICN script review, and Penn has listed other ideas of Vaughn's that were just terrible). And I absolutely hate his overall attitude (he seems much more interested in making "A Matthew Vaughn Film" as opposed to making an X-Men film. During X-Men: The Last Stand he constantly talked about wanting to do a blockbuster so he could become an A-lister, during X-Men: First Class he constantly talked about wanting to make a James Bond movie - X-Men is not James Bond, don't worry about making Bond movies, and worry about making X-Men movies - and the areas where Vaughn tried to stray away from making an X-Men movie, and instead tried to make a Matthew Vaughn version of a James Bond film showed, and the film suffered for it in my eyes)

I don't deny that the guy is capable - he made X-Men: First Class which is easily one of my favorite films of the entire series. I deny his direction. I feel that X-Men: First Class was great in spite of him. I feel it was great because there were people on the production that kept Vaughn on track, and kept him focused on making an X-Men movie, and didn't let him stray too far from what's been previously established. With Vaughn given more control to "ignore" and go his own way, with a ****** screen writer like Simon Kinberg in the mix, I have a real bad feeling for the future of this series.

Ok those just sound completely made up, like when they were hashing out ideas for X3 he was like "Hey guys let's have Leech in a backpack lololololololololololol!!" Too ridiculous! Still sounds to me like Penn was trying to come up with things that could possibly have made the movie worse.

Vaughn already had a lot of control on XMFC and his ideas helped fine-tune everything. Without him, Magneto's theme would have been over the top and hilarious. Without him, beast would have looked like a gargoyle. Don't forget too that he was the one behind casting McAvoy and Fassbender after witnessing their unbelievable screentest. He was the one, with Goldman, who tore up the initial script and rewrote it into what it turned out to be. Granted many of the lines are top-notch cheesy (don't even get me started on Mutant And Proud), but the flow of the rest of the film works out great. This film is the best X-Men film because it deals with the characters and the action is secondary. Unless you include Wolverine in EVERY SINGLE MOVIE BEFORE XMFC, the other films don't boast that as well. I think Vaughn can knock a sequel out of the park, especially if he gets most of the rest of his creative team on board to help him out.

[Primal Slayer]

Can we all just look at a positive? Atleast we will get a good trailer out of it if anything.

[RachelDawes]

Bottom line, if Vaughn, Singer, and Goldman are also involved in the script writing process I'll feel better about Kinberg.

[SuperSoldier985]

I have no idea what Kingberg's involvement with X-Men TLS was, so I don't have a whole lot to go on right now with him being involved.

Personally, I think it's more important that Vaughn comes back...

[akfj]

Kinberg co-wrote the screenplay for Last Stand with Zak Penn.

[merbass]

I think the most important thing is we are likely to get sequel to X-men first class. Whoever wrote the script is not that important at this stage. Remember how the script of XFC went through so many different writers ? May be Simon received stories / treatment from Singer / Vaughn and he expands his own idea based on those. Later on it will be edit, change to whoever come to direct the movie. XFC is magnificent. I doubt they will follow the same path as the original quadrilogy.