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Old 08-10-2012, 06:58 AM   #826
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I don't think he could have failed to use The Joker if Ledger had still been around. The popularity of the character was immense, and his final monologue promises that he would become a recurring nightmare. His absence from TDKR is only made palatable because you are aware of the reasons for it outside the movie itself.

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Old 08-10-2012, 07:03 AM   #827
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I'm certain that Heath would have played an integral part in TDKR had he been alive. Bane releasing the inmates from Blackgate would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce the Joker to the story and would have really brought an otherwise disappointing third act to life.

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Old 08-10-2012, 10:58 PM   #828
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Im glad there was no Joker in TDKR

Dont get me wrong, RIP Heath, but
I wanted a different story and new villains

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Old 08-10-2012, 11:00 PM   #829
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

This is what I wanted Joker for in TDKR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM6PO...ure=plpp_video

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Old 08-11-2012, 12:11 AM   #830
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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The question remains...did the Nolan's not want to bring Joker back regardless of whether Ledger died or not, or because he did die and they didn't want recast/work around his dying? I tend to think it was more the latter that came in even before they started conceiving the story for the third film.
I saw an interview with Nolan in Rolling Stones magazine where they asked if Heath was alive would the Joker be involved. Nolan mentioned that that's a parallel universe where that happen and in it is a different 3rd movie. So I imagine he would of had a definite effect on what they were going to do.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:25 AM   #831
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

if anyone's interested , i gave a shot at trying to do a heath joker impression reading bane's harvey dent speech. mind you, the quality doesn't sound the best , but if you still wanna check it out here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f88TO...ature=youtu.be

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:32 AM   #832
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if anyone's interested , i gave a shot at trying to do a heath joker impression reading bane's harvey dent speech. mind you, the quality doesn't sound the best , but if you still wanna check it out here it is : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f88TO...ature=youtu.be
That's a fantastic impression. It isn't perfect, but no one is. I'm sure Heath would be proud! I do feel this would've had much more of an impact if he was the one reading it instead of Bane.

And the sound quality is great man, I didn't have any trouble hearing you at all

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:35 AM   #833
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I saw an interview with Nolan in Rolling Stones magazine where they asked if Heath was alive would the Joker be involved. Nolan mentioned that that's a parallel universe where that happen and in it is a different 3rd movie. So I imagine he would of had a definite effect on what they were going to do.
Yes, I remember reading/hearing that Ledger was slated to reprise his role in the third movie shortly after he died, and as soon as I heard that I have to say my expectations for the third movie did drop some (don't get me wrong however - it was still probably the movie I've been anticipating most since TDK). It's just that I had the feeling that Nolan/Goyer probably had some things already in mind as to how the third movie would play out, and now that its central villain was no longer available, they were probably going to be forced to take a left turn script-wise. And as it turns out, many of the criticisms I have read regarding the various parts of TDKR's plot may all be the end result of them simply having to do too much for this last movie i.e. establish an entirely new central villain that is supposed to be Gotham's greatest threat yet (because you certainly can't lower the stakes in the final movie) and still have adequate time to bring Bruce/Batman's story arc to an epic conclusion as well.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:36 AM   #834
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That's a fantastic impression. It isn't perfect, but no one is. I'm sure Heath would be proud! I do feel this would've had much more of an impact if he was the one reading it instead of Bane.

And the sound quality is great man, I didn't have any trouble hearing you at all
thanks man lol most people seem to enjoy hearing it in person, i personally never usually like the way it sounds when i record it , but if people dig it then that's awesome haha.

and yea, i meant more the music quality more than anything heh

i totally agree, it would've had much more of an impact. just envisioning it .... it's a shame.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:42 AM   #835
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thanks man lol most people seem to enjoy hearing it in person, i personally never usually like the way it sounds when i record it , but if people dig it then that's awesome haha.

and yea, i meant more the music quality more than anything heh
Well it's like I'm training to be an amateur impressionist/comedian and actor. One of the impressions in my lineup has always been Heath Ledger's Joker and I always felt when it came time to do his voice, I was being very soft spoken and didn't add a lot more to what he did.

YOU, on the other hand, have impressed me. Yours far surpasses mine because you thrust your voice into it sometimes, you add a few chuckles and some dark parts in his speech, and I could vividly see Heath's Joker moving around and saying all those lines.

Bravo man, well done!

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:49 AM   #836
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Well it's like I'm training to be an amateur impressionist/comedian and actor. One of the impressions in my lineup has always been Heath Ledger's Joker and I always felt when it came time to do his voice, I was being very soft spoken and didn't add a lot more to what he did.

YOU, on the other hand, have impressed me. Yours far surpasses mine because you thrust your voice into it sometimes, you add a few chuckles and some dark parts in his speech, and I could vividly see Heath's Joker moving around and saying all those lines.

Bravo man, well done!
i hear you man, that's actually a goal of mine too. yea, it's really hard to keep that balance between high pitched and soft spoken with the deep gravelliness that he has to his voice. i try to make it sound as gravelly and tom waits esque as possible , even though you probably can't tell at all in the video lol. but yea, it just sounds sort of different to my ears/in person. smoking kinda helps

thanks man ! i appreciate that

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Old 08-11-2012, 04:05 AM   #837
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

i also would've loved to see a knightfall-type situation , with joker and scarecrow teaming up, ****ing with random people, and scarecrow eventually turning on joker and using his fear gas on him, causing joker to proceed to pwn the **** out of him. lol

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Old 08-11-2012, 05:53 AM   #838
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I always imagined if Heath was still alive that the third film would somehow involve him and Harley Quin against Batman and Catwoman. Would have been interesting to see Nolan's take on Harley and a fight of completely different sorts of couples against each other.

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Old 08-11-2012, 07:25 AM   #839
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

[QUOTE=Devil-In;24104331]Which, despite how brilliantly he did this, is the one thing I hated about this set of films.


I thought I was the only one that felt that way.

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Old 08-11-2012, 07:35 AM   #840
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I still think it's a shame on how he wasn't mentioned in TDKR. I mean, he left a very dark mark, not only on those who survived and appeared in TDKR, but on Gotham in general.

Granted, in the long run of things, Joker is in a way referenced, not directly in TDKR, but by the fact that Bruce was able to prove that Gotham was worth fighting for in the end when he was able to lead its citizens into claiming back their city and moving past Dent's scarred reputation.

TDKR is definitely unique in the sense where you wouldn't really have to watch the first film to know the major things that happened in BB, but you'd have to watch TDK if you wanted to know some of the major stuff that went down, namely the presence and existence of the Joker....which is ironic since you wouldn't know about Ra's or the LOS if you were to go into watching TDK first without having seen or heard about BB before it.

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Old 08-11-2012, 10:07 AM   #841
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Well, Joker "created" Two-face, so all of the consequences of his existence (mob killing spree, Dent's Act, Batman being an outlaw) are Joker's responsability, so in TDKR even if not mentioned his presence is clearly there.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:11 PM   #842
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

A good point. I do find it strange, however, that Batman has become the bÍte noire of Gothamites. It's as if they have forgotten all about the insane clown that did all that murdering and terrorism.

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Old 08-11-2012, 01:24 PM   #843
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Apparently Gotham never questions what they're told.

Except for Blake.

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Old 08-11-2012, 02:11 PM   #844
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Apparently Gotham never questions what they're told.
Oh come now, that stands for real life as well. Do you really think these civilized people really know what's going on in the world?

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:19 PM   #845
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Am I the only one that doesn't think Joker would have fit in a third plot?

Let's pretend, for a second, that Ledger didn't deliver this amazing performance. And let's pretend Joker isn't Batman's #1 enemy. The character stood for chaos and making Gotham turn on itself.

We saw that arc completed in TDK. Just like with Harvey Dent. If the Joker reappeared as a main villain, it would have been repetitive. And if he wasn't the main villain...well he wouldn't have been a good inclusion anyway. Joker doesn't work for anyone else and should always be the biggest threat in the room.

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:21 PM   #846
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Am I the only one that doesn't think Joker would have fit in a third plot?

Let's pretend, for a second, that Ledger didn't deliver this amazing performance. And let's pretend Joker isn't Batman's #1 enemy. The character stood for chaos and making Gotham turn on itself.

We saw that arc completed in TDK. Just like with Harvey Dent. If the Joker reappeared as a main villain, it would have been repetitive. And if he wasn't the main villain...well he wouldn't have been a good inclusion anyway. Joker doesn't work for anyone else and should always be the biggest threat in the room.
It would've been different if Heath hadn't passed away. TDKR would've been completely different and I bet you Two-Face wouldn't have been killed off

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Old 08-11-2012, 08:57 PM   #847
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I thought we might have got a bit closer to the answer in those scanned screenplay pages in the photo thread, but so far nothing. It will be an interesting book to read.
We get more of the same that ideas were floated around but they definately did not start out batman begins with a laid out plan like Lord of the Rings. We do get that J. Nolan's favourite character was the joker and that C. Nolan loved the spark that the character had. Both had words like 'they warmed up to' the character Bane or began to like him....which kinda makes me think that they initially didn't have him in mind. I know I read somwhere that C. Nolan wasn't fond of using Catwoman either but was convinced by one of the other writers that she was essential.

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Old 08-11-2012, 09:01 PM   #848
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It would've been different if Heath hadn't passed away. TDKR would've been completely different and I bet you Two-Face wouldn't have been killed off
Weren't they in post-production when Heath died? I think the movie was basically complete at that point so to me that indicates Two-Face's death had been written into the script before they even started filming.

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Old 08-11-2012, 09:08 PM   #849
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Weren't they in post-production when Heath died? I think the movie was basically complete at that point so to me that indicates Two-Face's death had been written into the script before they even started filming.
Even if he was, The Joker shouldn't be limited to just one story arc. He's got a lot more potential than that. If Scarecrow had cameos in every single film, I bet Joker wouldve gotten one or have been some side role

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Old 08-11-2012, 09:14 PM   #850
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I thought we might have got a bit closer to the answer in those scanned screenplay pages in the photo thread, but so far nothing. It will be an interesting book to read.
We get more of the same that ideas were floated around but they definately did not start out batman begins with a laid out plan like Lord of the Rings. We do get that J. Nolan's favourite character was the joker and that C. Nolan loved the spark that the character had. Both had words like 'they warmed up to' the character Bane or began to like him....which kinda makes me think that they initially didn't have him in mind. I know I read somwhere that C. Nolan wasn't fond of using Catwoman either but was convinced by one of the other writers that she was essential.
Yeah they kind of forced their own hand with having to bring in Catwoman once they killed off Rachel in TDK. I try to stay in the dark about movies as much as possible, but once I heard they were going to do a third movie, it seemed pretty easy to speculate that they were probably going to have to bring in either Catwoman or Vicki Vale to be the "love interest" (b/c you know there has to be one), and introducing some random woman that the general audience wasn't at all familiar with wasn't going to cut it given they only had one movie left in which to introduce the character and wrap up the series.

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