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Old 11-15-2011, 01:42 PM   #151
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Oh, I was all for recasting him.

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Old 11-15-2011, 01:54 PM   #152
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Well we are definitely in the minority. I mean I understand it to an extent simply because Heath was just awesome. But I'd hate to find out after the fact that tdkr falls short of it's full potential because they didn't include the joker. In my mind I can cone up with done pretty awesome scenarios with bane/ joker. Hopefully this movie doesn't suffer at all not having joker involved. I have to say though it is in the back if my mind that hes supposed to be in this one but won't be for the obvious reason. Oh well hope im wrong.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:02 PM   #153
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I don't think it is a requirement to have Joker in a film for it to be a good Batfilm. Batman is about more than just his rivalry with Mr. J. No doubt Heath would have come back for the sequel if he were still around, but recasting in this continuity when there are other villains to be explored seems like it would be a desperate attempt to continue TDK's unique appeal.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:04 PM   #154
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The events of TDK can't exactly be just swept under the carpet.
The events of TDK aren't swept under the carpet. They have been dealt with in TDK and now Batman has to deal with the after effects of those events like being hunted by the police for taking the blame.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:06 PM   #155
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

And you could very well be right. But you can't deny that there is a small chance that whatever the story Is could possibly have been made better if joker was in the mix. Just speculating obviously.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:29 PM   #156
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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I just think completely leaving Joker out of the finale to this Batman trilogy is kinda dumb. I know Heath's death was unfortunate, but I mean if he was still alive i'd put my life savings on Joker being in this, the finale. It'd be inevitable.
I don't know if 'dumb' or 'inevitable' but seriously the Joker left a promise of more. And yes, as many fans pointed out, that doesn't have to mean it should be immediately. But since this is Nolan's last one would expect this to be the chance.

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So I still feel they should have recast. Ironically enough, Tom Hardy would have been one of my choices.
Heh. Ah well, I one was of the ones who claimed recast when thousands of fans jumped out of their seats claiming to leave Ledger in peace and to stop Nolan's grief by suggesting this.

And here I am insisting that the Joker character goes beyond the ones who portray him.

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The events of TDK can't exactly be just swept under the carpet.
They shouldn't.





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I agree with you morningstar. I know it's a viewpoint that will get you lambasted and verbally raped around here, but I think recasting him would've been great if they felt he was gonna play a key role in this one. I am just having a hard time imagining how they are gonna side step his absence especially with the way bane is making all hell break loose in Gotham.
Oh they can and they will. But recasting should have been a choice here.




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Oh, I was all for recasting him.





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I don't think it is a requirement to have Joker in a film for it to be a good Batfilm. Batman is about more than just his rivalry with Mr. J. No doubt Heath would have come back for the sequel if he were still around, but recasting in this continuity when there are other villains to be explored seems like it would be a desperate attempt to continue TDK's unique appeal.
Other villiains can be explored but I don't think we saw everything we could with what we saw of Ledger's Joker. If this is the grand finale it's a shame the clown can't be there.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:30 PM   #157
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

It would have been weird to recast Joker. Heath was too unique.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:35 PM   #158
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Well we are definitely in the minority. I mean I understand it to an extent simply because Heath was just awesome. But I'd hate to find out after the fact that tdkr falls short of it's full potential because they didn't include the joker. In my mind I can cone up with done pretty awesome scenarios with bane/ joker. Hopefully this movie doesn't suffer at all not having joker involved. I have to say though it is in the back if my mind that hes supposed to be in this one but won't be for the obvious reason. Oh well hope im wrong.
I'd love for Joker to have been recast in a scene like, I don't know Batman is walking through Arkham Asylum and you can see Joker in his cell or if Bane breaks guys out of prison, you can just about make out the Joker scrambling out. A nice little easter egg along those lines but as far as acting and dialogue goes I have to say I think Hetahs Joker was too unique and tbh too good to have been recast

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:39 PM   #159
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It would have been weird to recast Joker. Heath was too unique.
The Joker is unique. He isn't exactly consistently portrayed the same in the comics.

The Joker is bigger than Heath Ledger, or any actor ever. To have him left out of the grande finale to a Batman trilogy after introducing him and leaving him alive at the end, is a mistake imo.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:40 PM   #160
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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I'd love for Joker to have been recast in a scene like, I don't know Batman is walking through Arkham Asylum and you can see Joker in his cell or if Bane breaks guys out of prison, you can just about make out the Joker scrambling out. A nice little easter egg along those lines but as far as acting and dialogue goes I have to say I think Hetahs Joker was too unique and tbh too good to have been recast
I wouldn't have been happy with a recast for such a small scene. I'd want him to come back for a meaty part.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:44 PM   #161
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The Joker is unique. He isn't exactly consistently portrayed the same in the comics.

The Joker is bigger than Heath Ledger, or any actor ever. To have him left out of the grande finale to a Batman trilogy after introducing him and leaving him alive at the end, is a mistake imo.
Comics are different. They go on and on and on to infinity. This is a closed trilogy that has used all the same actors except for Rachel Dawes, but she's not even a comic book character so who cares.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:46 PM   #162
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Yes this is a trilogy. Exactly. So you introduce the titular characters arch nemesis in the second film... then completely leave him out in the third and final film, just because the actor playing him passed away?

Yea, see to me, that's dumb.

And to be frank, this worshipping of Ledger, that no one can top his Joker, it's disrespectful to recast bla bla bla... is kinda, well, ****ing creepy to be honest.

(not saying you are one of those Fudgie, but i have seen that mentality around)

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:52 PM   #163
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I think at this point Joker should just be left until the next trilogy, I feel they should mention/cameo him, but if it makes Nolan feel to uncomfortable I hope he finds some way to fully wrap up his story, because while I feel Heath is this Joker, it's a disservice to say nothing.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:53 PM   #164
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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It would have been weird to recast Joker. Heath was too unique.
Apparently there are some other actors that are very good out there. I know, just rumors. Same as there are other composers that can do Batman themes other than Danny Elfman and Superman themes others than Williams.


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I wouldn't have been happy with a recast for such a small scene. I'd want him to come back for a meaty part.
Absolutely. If they had recast if should have been for more thna a cameo.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:53 PM   #165
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I wouldn't mind a recast if Heath had been kind of so so as Joker. Like they recast Rhodey in Iron Man 2 I didn't mind because Terence Howard didn't really do anything great with the part.

I think it would be strange to recast because Heath was so good and so unforgettable that I can't see anyone else play the Joker again in Nolan's Batman movies. Heath made it his own.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:57 PM   #166
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Some one else could have come along and blown us away though. I think Hardy could have made an awesome Joker, for example.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:58 PM   #167
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So you introduce the titular characters arch nemesis in the second film... then completely leave him out in the third and final film, just because the actor playing him passed away?

Yea, see to me, that's dumb.
1. The Joker's story was quite finished in TDK, he had proven his point. What would you have him do in the third one? Break out so he can do the same thing as in TDK? Would be quite boring.

2. Heath Ledger is dead. This is not a case of an actor refusing to return, the guy is not alive anymore and imo it's creepier that you step over it like it's no biggie compared to people still applauding Ledger for his performance.

3. Give other villains a chance. I'm glad to see Bane, because he seems to be a worthy opponent and he was heavily mistreated the first time on the big screen.

4. Do I believe that no one can top his Joker? It's always possible that someone can, but I personally think Ledger did an amazing job and apart from that he was really well written by Nolan to begin with. The next Joker will probably be different from Ledger's anyway.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:59 PM   #168
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I think If theres all this crazy stuff going down on Gotham and if things have really regressed to the point where crane is a judge, then a lot of people are definitely gonna be wondering where mr. J is. And I kinda agree the character is bigger than any actor. If he was needed in thus and they re wrote it to exclude him to the detriment of the story that will be a shame.

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Old 11-15-2011, 03:02 PM   #169
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This movie will work just fine without the Joker.

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Old 11-15-2011, 03:02 PM   #170
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I don't see how Joker's story is finished. He knows about Dent. He knows Batman and Gordon's secret. That sort of information is something the Joker would take great delight in knowing and using to wind up Batman and the Commish. That's kinda his thing.

Heath Ledger is dead, it's unfortunate... but... so what? He's an actor who played a role in a movie. He played it brilliantly, no doubt. His performance made TDK for me. But, he was an actor. Joker is a fictional character who is bigger than any actor.

And there would still be room for other villains.

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Old 11-15-2011, 03:05 PM   #171
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Nolan didn't feel comfortable recasting the role.

Could he have? Absolutely. But he, as the director, made a personal decision not to.

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Old 11-15-2011, 03:06 PM   #172
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I'm torn on it. I would LOVE to see the Joker back again. I do believe Joker would have been in TDKR in some kind of substantial role if Heath was still with us.

I understand Joker as a character is bigger than any actor who plays him. But at the same time from a movie perspective, the consistency in Nolan's Batman universe is also important. Trying to envision anyone in the role opposite Bale and co. as the Joker other than Heath is nearly impossible.

Who ever they would recast, if they were going to recast, would have had to do a damn good impression of Heath's style.

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Old 11-15-2011, 03:11 PM   #173
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I don't see how Joker's story is finished. He knows about Dent. He knows Batman and Gordon's secret. That sort of information is something the Joker would take great delight in knowing and using to wind up Batman and the Commish. That's kinda his thing.
It looks like that's over though, any kind of leverage from that knowledge will likely be made meaningless some point in the next film, you've got Bane to thank for that.

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Old 11-15-2011, 03:12 PM   #174
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I wouldn't mind a recast if Heath had been kind of so so as Joker. Like they recast Rhodey in Iron Man 2 I didn't mind because Terence Howard didn't really do anything great with the part.

I think it would be strange to recast because Heath was so good and so unforgettable that I can't see anyone else play the Joker again in Nolan's Batman movies. Heath made it his own.
We don't know how it would have been. Buty I'm far from believeing that this is the last we saw of Joker in movies because Ledger was so good.



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1. The Joker's story was quite finished in TDK, he had proven his point. What would you have him do in the third one? Break out so he can do the same thing as in TDK? Would be quite boring.
Joker has plenty to do. He knows Dent was the one who killed.

Not only he could prove that he was able to corrupt Dent into a murderer but he could also expose Batman and Gordon's big fat lie and put people against them also.

Joker's story finished? I don't think so. This time would have been personal.

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2. Heath Ledger is dead. This is not a case of an actor refusing to return, the guy is not alive anymore and imo it's creepier that you step over it like it's no biggie compared to people still applauding Ledger for his performance.
I have this weird idea that the character should survive the actors who play him.

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3. Give other villains a chance. I'm glad to see Bane, because he seems to be a worthy opponent and he was heavily mistreated the first time on the big screen.
He can be there too.

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4. Do I believe that no one can top his Joker? It's always possible that someone can, but I personally think Ledger did an amazing job and apart from that he was really well written by Nolan to begin with. The next Joker will probably be different from Ledger's anyway.
Well, that's cool because this time the Nolans are also writing, so that wouldn't be a problem, would it?




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This movie will work just fine without the Joker.
Not only we don't know for sure (I don't see why not), but that's far from the point.



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Nolan didn't feel comfortable recasting the role.

Could he have? Absolutely. But he, as the director, made a personal decision not to.
Yes, not an artistic but a personal decision.



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I'm torn on it. I would LOVE to see the Joker back again. I do believe Joker would have been in TDKR in some kind of substantial role if Heath was still with us.

I understand Joker as a character is bigger than any actor who plays him. But at the same time from a movie perspective, the consistency in Nolan's Batman universe is also important. Trying to envision anyone in the role opposite Bale and co. as the Joker other than Heath is nearly impossible.

Who ever they would recast, if they were going to recast, would have had to do a damn good impression of Heath's style.
On the contrary, I can imagine plenty of new intrerpretations that, while close to the tone Ledger gave to the character, could be quite interesting. Hard to imagine should be a challenge not a limit.

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Old 11-15-2011, 03:13 PM   #175
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That's over though, any kind of leverage from that knowledge will likely be made meaningless some point in the next film, you've got Bane to thank for that.





The legacy of Dent seems to be quite prominent if these are anything to go by. I could see Joker pissing all over this.

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