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Old 08-14-2012, 04:06 PM   #326
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

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Kal-El/Clark as public Clark and Superman is completely capable of forming meaningful relationships, because each guise is him. A part of him. And in each guise, no matter what, the kind and understanding heart is there.

It is why Lois was able to fall in love with Clark Kent. it is why Superman is able to endear and even surprise his fellow superheroes with his ways.

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Old 03-13-2013, 10:05 AM   #327
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

Bump. This thread obviously needs to be revisited.

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Old 03-13-2013, 10:10 AM   #328
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

I've really missed this thread, but I haven't bumped it because I know it'll just be the same old circular arguements as to 'who is the real man' and frankly i'm kind of tired of it.

I will say, I hope the film takes the same position as me (and from what we've seen so far, it will). He's not this fully kryptonian, non human, Clark Kent is nothing but a disguise Superman. And he's not this 'I just wanna be normal', reluctant, ignorant of his heritage Clark Kent either.

He's a guy who uses both a human and an alien disguise in order to truly maintain some form of a life while he exists on this earth, and while doing his work as a hero.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 03-13-2013, 10:39 AM   #329
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

From the Amy Adams thread…

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The entire idea discounts that Superman itself is disguise. It places Superman as the "real" man. The boy that was sent to Earth, the one raised by Johnathan and Martha Kent is as much Superman as he is Metropolis Clark. That is my problem with it. In the scenario presented in the film, Superman is as much a critique on humanity as Metropolis Clark is.

I am fine with the idea that Clark's intelligence makes him more self-aware. In the context of Kill Bill it was more a manipulation to fit Beatrix then anything else. Trying to make her aware of her own situation.
Well, the knowledgeable fan may understand the nuanced differences between Kal-El, Smallville Clark (known only to Ma and Pa), Metropolis Clark and “Superman.” But more generally and basically, the division of the character into “Superman” (the more natural persona - as Bill points out) and “Metropolis Clark” (the affected disguise) is accurate. And at that point, it becomes fodder (for those inclined to do so) to “psychoanalyze” the meaning and symbolism of the latter - simply because he’s, more explicitly, an artifice - a deliberately constructed façade.

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Old 03-13-2013, 10:57 AM   #330
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

Superman might be the 'more' natural persona (as in he has to hide less of himself), but it's still not his full natural persona. He is still hiding parts of himself. Superman is still one of his disguises.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:27 AM   #331
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

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Superman might be the 'more' natural persona (as in he has to hide less of himself), but it's still not his full natural persona. He is still hiding parts of himself. Superman is still one of his disguises.
Hmm so when is he completely himself then?

I think Superman is when he is as much of himself as ever. I don't think Superman is a disguise or 'act'. His reactions to things are honest for this persona and he is able to perform at his full capacity.

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Old 03-13-2013, 11:38 AM   #332
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

My take on it is this. When Clark goes home to Mum and Dad, that is the real person. He has no requirement to hide who he is from them. Of course he needs to be a bit careful what he does when at the farm, in case he is spotted doing something "super".
Metropolis Clark is an out and out disguise to prevent him from being recognised as Superman. The times that he is flying about doing his things, there is still an element of disguise.
All of this is done in order to protect those he cares about. The best way to attack someone who is virtually invulnerable is to go after those closest to him.

I suppose that the only time that Clark can truly be completely himself is when he is in the Fortress of Solitude.

That's my take on it anyways...

YMMV

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Old 03-13-2013, 11:44 AM   #333
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

It was only with Kuro could we get the most heated discussions lol

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Old 03-15-2013, 08:36 AM   #334
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

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Hmm so when is he completely himself then?

I think Superman is when he is as much of himself as ever. I don't think Superman is a disguise or 'act'. His reactions to things are honest for this persona and he is able to perform at his full capacity.
When he is around people who know he both grew up on a farm AND is from outer space. Who know he writes for a great Metropolitan newspaper AND flys around in tights. Who know he wears glasses AND shoots lasers out of his eyes.

There are very few that know the real person. But he's in there, and Superman is not that person. Superman is a half of that person.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:45 AM   #335
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

I'm new to Superman.

I've heard that Superman is the real thing and Clark Kent is a disguise. Is that correct? I think so.

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Old 03-15-2013, 08:51 AM   #336
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

Oh here we go...

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:00 AM   #337
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

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I'm new to Superman.

I've heard that Superman is the real thing and Clark Kent is a disguise. Is that correct? I think so.
Yes and no. No and yes.

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Old 03-15-2013, 09:50 AM   #338
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

I don't see any need to pigeonhole the personas he has as 'real' or a 'disguise'. I think it happens because many people grew up with the Christopher Reeve films where his over the top, bumbling mild-mannered Clark Kent (in reporter mode at least) was obviously a manufactured personality designed deliberately to mislead people. And that's led many of us to expect it to happen again in some shape or form.

I look at his different 'personas' as slightly different representations of the same person. He's still the same guy underneath, he just behaves differently depending on the situation and who's around. It's not that different to how the average person might wear a suit to work and behave in a very professional capacity, yet when they go home and pull on a pair of jeans they are much more relaxed and natural. The person doesn't change, just their mannerisms.

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Old 03-15-2013, 10:47 AM   #339
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

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I'm new to Superman.

I've heard that Superman is the real thing and Clark Kent is a disguise. Is that correct? I think so.
Kal-El is actually a meat popsicle. So neither Superman or Clark are real...

How does one spell "troll" again?

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Old 03-15-2013, 01:33 PM   #340
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

Maybe Superman was always a metephorical comment on mild multiple personality disorders or shizophreina. I mean that's not a nice thing to think, but one of them, is a fantasy, depending on which ever one is the main character. In this one, Superman seems more front and center, which is good. I also think everyone has more than one side to them. I think in real life though, the more seperate two people's personas are, the more weird to scizophrenic the person seems.

Also, more recently than before people 'take on' personas in music. Beyonce has Sasha Feirce for instance.. She says that something 'takes over' her. Some religious nuts think she is being possessed. But it's always interesting when people have two sides. They are kind of both as important. But for different reasons.

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Old 03-15-2013, 04:40 PM   #341
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

I don't think so.

The only disguise is Daily Planet Clark Kent and only when it's the version where he acts clumsy.

Otherwise, he's always real. The difference is that in different situations he limits himself. As Superman, he limits how much Clark Kent he reveals. As Clark Kent, he limits how much Superman is revealed. These aren't different personas but pieces of his whole self.

It's like how we act slightly different around friends, different around family, different around a business setting. It doesn't mean we're fake in either situation. We just choose to reveal different parts about us.

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Old 03-16-2013, 09:31 AM   #342
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

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I don't see any need to pigeonhole the personas he has as 'real' or a 'disguise'. I think it happens because many people grew up with the Christopher Reeve films where his over the top, bumbling mild-mannered Clark Kent (in reporter mode at least) was obviously a manufactured personality designed deliberately to mislead people. And that's led many of us to expect it to happen again in some shape or form.

I look at his different 'personas' as slightly different representations of the same person. He's still the same guy underneath, he just behaves differently depending on the situation and who's around. It's not that different to how the average person might wear a suit to work and behave in a very professional capacity, yet when they go home and pull on a pair of jeans they are much more relaxed and natural. The person doesn't change, just their mannerisms.
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I don't think so.

The only disguise is Daily Planet Clark Kent and only when it's the version where he acts clumsy.

Otherwise, he's always real. The difference is that in different situations he limits himself. As Superman, he limits how much Clark Kent he reveals. As Clark Kent, he limits how much Superman is revealed. These aren't different personas but pieces of his whole self.

It's like how we act slightly different around friends, different around family, different around a business setting. It doesn't mean we're fake in either situation. We just choose to reveal different parts about us.
Agree with you both

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:59 PM   #343
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

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Originally Posted by elgaz View Post
I don't see any need to pigeonhole the personas he has as 'real' or a 'disguise'. I think it happens because many people grew up with the Christopher Reeve films where his over the top, bumbling mild-mannered Clark Kent (in reporter mode at least) was obviously a manufactured personality designed deliberately to mislead people. And that's led many of us to expect it to happen again in some shape or form.

I look at his different 'personas' as slightly different representations of the same person. He's still the same guy underneath, he just behaves differently depending on the situation and who's around. It's not that different to how the average person might wear a suit to work and behave in a very professional capacity, yet when they go home and pull on a pair of jeans they are much more relaxed and natural. The person doesn't change, just their mannerisms.
Or simply grown up with Superman pre-1986. ! !

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Old 03-16-2013, 01:15 PM   #344
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

Moving beyond the identity talk, I'd like to say I hope Cavill's Superman is likable. Some recent interpretations have failed in that area.

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Old 03-16-2013, 01:23 PM   #345
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

I think the movie is going to make Clark aware, empathetic and compassionate as a child.

Just imagine being so young and having super hearing. Listening to all the suffering and evil in the world going on.

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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
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2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:15 PM   #346
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

I think that's one of the most likeable aspects of Clark/Superman.

Everything he has to go through, all the things he's dealt with in his childhood, even the events he goes through as a superhero- and it never warps him. He stays 'good', he stays optimistic about human nature, he stays a hero.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:29 PM   #347
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

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I think that's one of the most likeable aspects of Clark/Superman.

Everything he has to go through, all the things he's dealt with in his childhood, even the events he goes through as a superhero- and it never warps him. He stays 'good', he stays optimistic about human nature, he stays a hero.
Yeah. I hope that isn't sacrificed to make him more "relatable." Clark isn't just supposed to be relatable... he is also inspirational.

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Old 03-16-2013, 02:36 PM   #348
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

I just don't want a moment where I'm thinking "That was a douchebag move". I had that thought while reading Earth One and in another Superman project that I won't get into here.

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Old 03-16-2013, 02:43 PM   #349
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

Absolutely

In the trailer you can tell he's a sensitive kid. Things are going to easily affect him. Perhaps the scene where he tells Martha that the world is big. He can hear all the things going on. That would lead to him asking questions that will haunt him, more than his powers ever will.

Being a lonely kid, he's going to be sitting and thinking to himself. Not about himself, but about others.

I mean we even see him running around with a cape on as a kid. He's wanted to bea hero that early and it's never wavered as he grew.

Imagine Martha saying to Clark that the voices he's hearing will go when somebody out there saves them?

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I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:05 PM   #350
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Default Re: Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

The thought of young Clark running around in a cape, and having this urge to help people, has me geeking out.

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