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Old 11-30-2011, 03:03 PM   #1
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Default Why didnt Azazel

take out Magneto when he was lifting the sub?

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Old 11-30-2011, 03:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why didnt Azazel

The writers forgot about that detail

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Old 11-30-2011, 03:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why didnt Azazel

Hadn't Shaw already locked himself in the nuclear room? If he had, he was clearly fine with a confrontation with the X-Men so Azazel didn't have to do anything.

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Old 11-30-2011, 03:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why didnt Azazel

There's quite a few cases of "why didn'ts" in First Class.

Like, why didn't Charles just use his powers to have the American admiral call off the attack?

Bad writing.

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Old 11-30-2011, 04:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why didnt Azazel

If that Russian ship had crossed the line the Americans didn't want them to cross there would've been war regardless of what the admiral wanted. The shots were being called by people in Washington. Having a Russian blow up the ship (Americans couldn't be blamed for that) was a better solution to the problem.

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Old 11-30-2011, 04:27 PM   #6
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If that Russian ship had crossed the line the Americans didn't want them to cross there would've been war regardless of what the admiral wanted. The shots were being called by people in Washington. Having a Russian blow up the ship (Americans couldn't be blamed for that) was a better solution to the problem.
You're missing the point. Charles could have had the admiral ignore the order, and lie. No sailor would question his command. Sure he'd be court martialed later, or whatever, but it would have ended the whole stand off. He could have also stopped the admiral from ordering the attack on the beech.

This is why the past movies always have Professor X incapacitated in someway near the end. It's difficult to write around his powers.

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Old 11-30-2011, 04:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why didnt Azazel

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take out Magneto when he was lifting the sub?
cause if he did the sub it would drop from the sky...

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Old 11-30-2011, 09:16 PM   #8
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You're missing the point. Charles could have had the admiral ignore the order, and lie. No sailor would question his command. Sure he'd be court martialed later, or whatever, but it would have ended the whole stand off.
Azazel had that thing pointed in the direction of Cuba and there wasn't anyone to stop the boat. If it had reached Cuba the US would be pissed at the Soviets and the crisis would drag on, or even escalate.


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He could have also stopped the admiral from ordering the attack on the beech.
Not easily. He must've still been a mental wreck after experiencing a coin psychically driven though his head.

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This is why the past movies always have Professor X incapacitated in someway near the end. It's difficult to write around his powers.
This is why the next villain needs to pose a real threat to Xavier by being almost as powerful a telepath as he is.

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Old 12-01-2011, 02:46 AM   #9
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cause if he did the sub it would drop from the sky...
Didn't they drop the sub from the sky anyway?

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Old 12-01-2011, 03:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why didnt Azazel

Charles could easily have stopped Azazel anyway if he teleported inside the ship, Riptide was the better option at that point.

Also, if Charles would have stopped the admiral firing on the beach, the russians still would have, I dont think he can control 2 people at once, stop them yes, but making them do a certain thing if different and more difficult. I dont think Charles is at that level yet.

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Old 12-01-2011, 10:21 AM   #11
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take out Magneto when he was lifting the sub?

Because Riptide was taking care of it. And he did a pretty job of it, too--the jet crashed.

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Old 12-01-2011, 10:26 AM   #12
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You're missing the point. Charles could have had the admiral ignore the order, and lie. No sailor would question his command. Sure he'd be court martialed later, or whatever, but it would have ended the whole stand off. He could have also stopped the admiral from ordering the attack on the beech.

This is why the past movies always have Professor X incapacitated in someway near the end. It's difficult to write around his powers.
I think you're over-estimating Charles' abilities. He would have had, literally, seconds to locate the American admiral with his telepathy before the missiles were fired on the beach. Not to mention the fact he'd have to do the same for the Russian admiral as well.

There were thousands of men on those ships...Charles couldn't locate Shaw and his band of mutants in a sub that was relatively close by. Banshee had to do that.

It's not bad writing--it's that Charles has limits with his powers just like all the other characters. He can control minds...but he has to FIND the mind first.

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Old 12-01-2011, 02:19 PM   #13
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I think you're over-estimating Charles' abilities. He would have had, literally, seconds to locate the American admiral with his telepathy before the missiles were fired on the beach. Not to mention the fact he'd have to do the same for the Russian admiral as well.

There were thousands of men on those ships...Charles couldn't locate Shaw and his band of mutants in a sub that was relatively close by. Banshee had to do that.

It's not bad writing--it's that Charles has limits with his powers just like all the other characters. He can control minds...but he has to FIND the mind first.
See that would work if those limits were established, but they're not. How was he able to find that specific Soviet officer to launch the missile to destroy the ship crossing the line? Finding an admiral (big guy on the bridge, probably doing the most talking / thinking) would be even easier. It's just bad writing.

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Old 12-01-2011, 02:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why didnt Azazel

I just thought of something else. If Charles had controlled the admiral not to fire, he'd have to keep holding onto him because doubtless the man's superiors in Washington would keep trying to contact him once they realized their orders had been disobeyed. Possibly they would have contacted the admiral's second-in-command and instructed him to fire. Charles could have controlled more than one person at once for a long period of time, but he knew he was about to battle Shaw and he needed all his concentration to battle a mutant that strong. It was easier just to have the Russians blow up their own boat.

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Old 12-01-2011, 06:13 PM   #15
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I just thought of something else. If Charles had controlled the admiral not to fire, he'd have to keep holding onto him because doubtless the man's superiors in Washington would keep trying to contact him once they realized their orders had been disobeyed. Possibly they would have contacted the admiral's second-in-command and instructed him to fire. Charles could have controlled more than one person at once for a long period of time, but he knew he was about to battle Shaw and he needed all his concentration to battle a mutant that strong. It was easier just to have the Russians blow up their own boat.
That's the thing though. If they had shown that, I wouldn't complain. Showing Charles taking control of the admiral's mind, and the power struggle on the bridge that would follow. It would also validate the need to bombard the mutants on the beach. That's good writing.

Course, Shaw's plan was overly intricate. All he had to do was send Emma Frost to the White House to seduce and mind **** Kennedy. They would have let her in, he had good looking women come in at all hours of the night. But obviously, the movie needs the intricate plan to work.

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Old 12-02-2011, 01:24 PM   #16
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See that would work if those limits were established, but they're not. How was he able to find that specific Soviet officer to launch the missile to destroy the ship crossing the line? Finding an admiral (big guy on the bridge, probably doing the most talking / thinking) would be even easier. It's just bad writing.

He didn't need that specific Soviet officer. That was the one he happened to snag with his telepathy.

Charles needed to find an officer on one of the many bridges in one of the many Russian ships. He happened to find that officer, but it could have been anybody. He had several to choose from.

On the beach (which is much further distance for his telepathy to spread out, I'll add), he would have to gain control of two specific minds within a few seconds--the American admiral and the Russian admiral. No one else would have sufficed.

It's not the same scenario.

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Old 12-02-2011, 01:27 PM   #17
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Course, Shaw's plan was overly intricate. All he had to do was send Emma Frost to the White House to seduce and mind **** Kennedy. They would have let her in, he had good looking women come in at all hours of the night. But obviously, the movie needs the intricate plan to work.
This is one of the reasons I believe Charles is the stronger telepath. Never do we see Emma actually controlling anyone's mind. Yes, she's able to attack someone with her telepathy (like Erik on the yacht), but if she were as powerful as Charles, she would have just mind-frozen Mr. Magneto and then stabbed him with one of her diamond fingers. End of problem.

She never does that. She clearly doesn't have that ability.

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Old 12-02-2011, 02:45 PM   #18
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That's the thing though. If they had shown that, I wouldn't complain. Showing Charles taking control of the admiral's mind, and the power struggle on the bridge that would follow. It would also validate the need to bombard the mutants on the beach. That's good writing.
But like I said, he would've had to control the admiral, and any other officers ordered to fire on the Russians, indefinitely. He couldn't do that and fight Shaw.

The officers on the boat wanted to attack the mutants because they'd seen them lift and wreck a sub with a whirlwind and fly around, loosing projectiles. That would unnerve anyone, but the orders to fire on them came from Washington and Moscow, who would've known the full powers of every mutant on the beach and how potentially powerful they were.

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On the beach (which is much further distance for his telepathy to spread out, I'll add), he would have to gain control of two specific minds within a few seconds--the American admiral and the Russian admiral. No one else would have sufficed.
Don't forget he'd just experienced having a coin driven through his brain. I'm sure that messed with his mind and powers.

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Old 12-02-2011, 02:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why didnt Azazel

Why didn't Superman just speed blitz Doomsday into paste in "Death of Superman"? Why doesn't Thor just send Hulk to another dimension when they fight? Why doesn't Silver Surfer just open a black hole on someones face when they annoy him?

That's just the way things are. It's for dramatic effect. Best not to think about it too much.

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Old 12-02-2011, 06:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why didnt Azazel

The scene is about Erik finally being in full control of his powers. Having Azazel muck it up would have ruined a key scene in the X-franchise.

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Old 12-03-2011, 06:33 AM   #21
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But like I said, he would've had to control the admiral, and any other officers ordered to fire on the Russians, indefinitely. He couldn't do that and fight Shaw.

The officers on the boat wanted to attack the mutants because they'd seen them lift and wreck a sub with a whirlwind and fly around, loosing projectiles. That would unnerve anyone, but the orders to fire on them came from Washington and Moscow, who would've known the full powers of every mutant on the beach and how potentially powerful they were.



Don't forget he'd just experienced having a coin driven through his brain. I'm sure that messed with his mind and powers.
Sorry this just prompted me to think... if the sequel will be more Charles-focused (which it seems to be, judging what McAvoy and Fassy have said about their characters and Vaughn's intentions) and he's going to walk through fire, wouldn't it be interesting if that mental coin actually DID mess with his powers a bit? Like either made them glitchy or actually amplified them? Just a thought

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Old 12-03-2011, 02:19 PM   #22
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Sorry this just prompted me to think... if the sequel will be more Charles-focused (which it seems to be, judging what McAvoy and Fassy have said about their characters and Vaughn's intentions) and he's going to walk through fire, wouldn't it be interesting if that mental coin actually DID mess with his powers a bit? Like either made them glitchy or actually amplified them? Just a thought
I'd love this. It would be like what would happen if a person really survived having a coin shoved through their head: they'd live but their brain would probably not be right again for a long time, if ever. He could undergo a psychic equivalent. Plus, if his abilities were glitchy or even gave out altogether from time to time, that would be a way of making him more vulnerable without removing him the movie. People are always complaining that Charles is so powerful that he needs to be put into a coma for the villain to have a chance of success.

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Old 12-03-2011, 02:24 PM   #23
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Sorry this just prompted me to think... if the sequel will be more Charles-focused (which it seems to be, judging what McAvoy and Fassy have said about their characters and Vaughn's intentions) and he's going to walk through fire, wouldn't it be interesting if that mental coin actually DID mess with his powers a bit? Like either made them glitchy or actually amplified them? Just a thought
Hmm...it sounds like we're trying to put too many eggs in one basket. Charles' central "walking through fire" should center around something very human (just like Erik's his mother being murdered and him being experimented on). Being paralyzed and forever in a wheelchair is conflict enough; anything more will belittle all that trauma that goes along with that loss.

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Old 12-03-2011, 02:31 PM   #24
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Hmm...it sounds like we're trying to put too many eggs in one basket. Charles' central "walking through fire" should center around something very human (just like Erik's his mother being murdered and him being experimented on). Being paralyzed and forever in a wheelchair is conflict enough; anything more will belittle all that trauma that goes along with that loss.
It could actually compound the trauma. Imagine Charles in the wheelchair, relying on his mind to experience the world more than ever, and suddenly his powers start to malfunction. He'd be even more devastated, and would give him an arc of learning not only to accept himself in a wheelchair but to rebuild his abilities.

You know, in the way that XFC was often a movie about Magneto and his pain I could easily see XFC2 focusing on Charles in that way.

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Old 12-03-2011, 04:11 PM   #25
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Hmm...it sounds like we're trying to put too many eggs in one basket. Charles' central "walking through fire" should center around something very human (just like Erik's his mother being murdered and him being experimented on). Being paralyzed and forever in a wheelchair is conflict enough; anything more will belittle all that trauma that goes along with that loss.
You make an excellent point actually. :/

But I do believe that Charles' trauma (as in paralysis and key members of his "family" deserting him, coin likely irrelevant) will probably translate into some power issues. His power deals with the mind and psychologically he's going to be pretty messed up.

I think someone else posted on here in this thread or another about how they might make OBLIVION the baddie in the sequel, but rather than make it the strange mindchild of Erik and Charles, make it a manifestation of Charles' issues. And Erik is the one to help Charles come back to himself, a role reversal of XMFC. That's an interesting take on it as well. Man oh man can it be 2014* already?


*just a guess when XMFC2 will come out

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