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Old 12-24-2013, 09:08 AM   #801
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I just finished it this morning too, and I was really glad that Ellie made it out alive in the end because she really became one of my most favorite gaming characters in recent years. As for Joel, I was finally listening to IGN's spoilercast and I was a bit surprised to hear them label him as becoming the "bad guy" in the end. I definitely understand the choice he made, and in many ways I agree with it from a selfish standpoint of not wanting to see Ellie die, but it was interesting to hear that the ending came off as sort of a twist with Joel making the selfish choice as opposed to the "morally right" choice.
I get what Naughty Dog tried to do. Having the cannibals actually turn out to have women and children with them, the way enemies would have conversations about sharing their rations right before Joel slaughters them, Joel making comments like, "I've been on both sides of an ambush," etc. Joel wasn't a nice man or a good man. But I don't think the ending paints him as a bad guy in quite the way Naughty Dog wanted. That is supposed to be the point where Joel essentially becomes the villain and wins. But he's not. Anyone with a child can understand what Joel did perfectly. I thought the ending was happy. I would do it for my daughter, if I had the choice between her and humanity. I don't think the ending is as morally ambiguous as Naughty Dog would quite like, because they did too good of a job in building Joel and Ellie's father/daughter relationship.

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Old 12-24-2013, 10:40 AM   #802
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It was a lie, ellie was the only one that they came across that was immune and could have developed a cure from. Not too mention he killed a bunch of fireflies, including Marlene.
There are audio recordings in the facility where they state that Ellie wasn't the first. I guess most players missed this. Since I was looking for every collectable I could find right on the first walkthrough, I got that recording, so what Joel said didn't seem like a lie to me.

At least this part wasn't a lie.

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Old 12-24-2013, 11:39 AM   #803
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While it wasn't a lie that they had at one point found others, he was lying that they didn't need Ellie because they had others already being used to find a cure. He was definitely lying. He murdered the whole research team who's job it was to find a cure, didn't he? I don't remember.

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Old 12-24-2013, 11:43 AM   #804
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I get what Naughty Dog tried to do. Having the cannibals actually turn out to have women and children with them, the way enemies would have conversations about sharing their rations right before Joel slaughters them, Joel making comments like, "I've been on both sides of an ambush," etc. Joel wasn't a nice man or a good man. But I don't think the ending paints him as a bad guy in quite the way Naughty Dog wanted. That is supposed to be the point where Joel essentially becomes the villain and wins. But he's not. Anyone with a child can understand what Joel did perfectly. I thought the ending was happy. I would do it for my daughter, if I had the choice between her and humanity. I don't think the ending is as morally ambiguous as Naughty Dog would quite like, because they did too good of a job in building Joel and Ellie's father/daughter relationship.
I feel like you're misrepresenting their goals. They didn't intend to make Joel an out and out villain, but he did murder the lady in charge of trying to find a cure to bring humanity back, which is pretty villainous. But it's not a black and white story which is why it's so damn amazing. It's all shades of grey. I perfectly agree that they succeeded in making us understand his decision to save her, but that was the point. He makes a selfish human decision at the expense of possibly saving humanity.

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Old 12-24-2013, 12:29 PM   #805
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I think the big key theme behind Joel's character is that his main and only goal throughout the game seems to be to survive. Even when he was with Tess, he didn't want to go on with the mission of delivering Ellie because that seemed to be a huge risk to his survival rate. Now by the end, I think the cliche thing to do would have been to sacrifice his life for her in some way, but given how the story progressed, that wasn't an option and I think he saw her as his only way to survive emotionally, especially since you can tell that Sarah's death hit him harder than the whole epidemic.

And I didn't realize this the first time through, but when it comes to dealing with humans, Joel is pretty much as brutal as can be. Someone from IGN made the point that if you can, you can sneak away from the infected in many areas without having to fight them, but when it comes to humans, you pretty much have to kill all of them.

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Old 12-25-2013, 12:13 AM   #806
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Joel wasn't a bad guy or he didn't become a bad guy. I think he is just human, like all of us. The journey him and Ellie went on drove them to look after each other and develop the father/daughter relationship. The first part of this story is essential to knowing who Joel is and why he did what he did. He lost one daughter, and he needed to "correct" that part of his life. I completely agree with what his character did and chose.

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Old 12-31-2013, 02:10 PM   #807
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This game is absolutely awesome! My favourite of the 2013 GOTY contenders so far. I've yet to play Mario, Bioshock Infinite or AC4 but I prefer this to the likes of GTA & Tomb Raider. And the ending is probably not as controversial as intended when seen (played) through the eyes of Joel. I think many would do the same (if they could). If we were seeing it through anyone else's eyes it would be different and he would be a definite villain, a risk to your own family. It just shows the brutality and desperation of being in a situation like this. The best game for emotion and character interaction I've played in a fair while.

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Old 12-31-2013, 02:51 PM   #808
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I saw this one analysis of the ending that really made me love Joel's decision even more, from a creative standpoint since it adds more depth to his character. But basically, if you think about how his daughter died, it wasn't because of an infection or anything. It was from a bullet by a soldier, which happened in a moment where Joel was defenseless and needed help. But instead of helping him, the soldier was order to shoot and kill, and this twisted Joel's view on humanity in general, since it opened his eyes to how violent humans could be.

Now when you fast forward to the end, Joel sees that Ellie has a chance to save humanity at the cost of her life, and add to the feelings of already losing one daughter figure in his life, he decides that it isn't worth it to lose another one while trying to save the same humanity that caused him so much grief. It really does make him come off as a "bad guy" but I love it for that because it doesn't go the predictable route of him doing "what's right" and saving the day.

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Old 12-31-2013, 03:04 PM   #809
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I don't know if letting her die and saving the day is a predictable decision even it is more predictable than doing what he did. More likely yes but the situation creates a dilemma where both choices lead to grave consequences for Joel. Might be the right thing to do but most wouldn't be able to make that decision without a whole lot of torment. And I doubt they'd be able to be that happy about it even if it did lead to the saving of humanity. Nice and complicated which is a great job by ND. But playing as Joel and experiencing his relationship with Ellie plus what happened to his own daughter, the gamer is surely pushed toward siding with Joel rather than seeing him as the villain, even if ND wanted that.

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Old 12-31-2013, 05:31 PM   #810
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Yeah, I don't see Joel as a bad guy.. At all. Humanity is vile and the opening of the game proves that. If keeping the evil of humanity at bay makes you a bad guy.. Well.. Where's my red lightsaber?

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Old 01-01-2014, 12:59 AM   #811
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I really love that Joel makes a human decision rather than an idealized hollywoodized decision. And I love that they let you become him during that moment. Video games truly are a unique medium in that way and I'm excited that games are really starting to play with that unique perspective.

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Old 01-01-2014, 01:05 AM   #812
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Yeah, I don't see Joel as a bad guy.. At all. Humanity is vile and the opening of the game proves that. If keeping the evil of humanity at bay makes you a bad guy.. Well.. Where's my red lightsaber?
The thing is that he wasn't stopping the evil of humanity at the end. Sure Marlene and the Fireflies weren't the best people, but they were trying to find a fix to this infection problem so that the human race could stand to survive, and maybe those who were once infected could return back to normal. But Joel did not want that, at least not at the cost of Ellie's life. He wasn't keeping the evil of humanity at bay with that decision to kill Marlene and the doctors and anyone else who got in his way. He was keeping the existence of humanity at bay.

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Old 01-01-2014, 01:24 AM   #813
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He just wanted the girl to live, a persons life doesn't always have to be taken away to save others sacrifice wise. it's understandable some times and commendable, if they were making that chose them selves, but in a way they were taking her young life way from her.

And it's possible that if she lives and has children the cure will be passed down that way. yeah it'll take longer, but there was that and it was in a way him saving some one that not only reminded him of the daughter he couldn't save, but some one that became his second daughter.(as she's not a replacement but some one he came to care for just as much as his own) they be came family with their time together. I would have made that chose a lot of people in real life that have kids would make that chose and have acted and went that far to protect their kids or some one close enough to be their own kid.


And it's always possible they will find another way with out having to kill the carrier of the cure. In that situation there was no a true wrong. and I'm sure him have to kill them will haunt(any one claiming other wise ...) him. but he did the right thing(as he saw it) still.

It's best not to be put in that kind of situation and hope never to be put in to that, to make that kinda of a chose. But I won't blame a person that made the chose he did.


Oh and happy new year.


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Old 01-01-2014, 07:30 AM   #814
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For me, The Last Of Us is my game of the year...and dare I say it, my game of the Generation.
Graphically, The Last of Us was up there with the likes of Bioshock Infinite, I mean, even in the smallest details, like watching the wind moving grass, or strands of Ellie's hair.
Story wise - It was absolutely fantastic! The opening scene with Joel and Sarah was a complete punch to the gut, lump in the throat moment.
Joel's journey with Ellie was great. I loved watching how in the beginning Joel didn't see the point in taking Ellie to where she was to go, and by the end, how Joel made a 'selfish' (but ultimately human) choice regarding Ellie.

The Last of Us is my game of the generation and Ellie will always be my favorite video game character.

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Old 01-02-2014, 12:02 AM   #815
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I'm wondering if you guys had the same experience on the high school escape part that I did. I had Joel in the high school with the flashlight off, but I guess the runners noticed me because Bill had his flashlight on. It may be that I was going kind of fast and got noticed that way, but I was trying to be sneaky and take out enemies silently, but that didn't work out.

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Old 01-02-2014, 12:07 AM   #816
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They barely notice your Ai partners. So it must be cause you rushed things a little. just pace your self better your supposed to be stealthy that always require patience. and doing so teaches you to have that.

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Old 01-02-2014, 10:37 PM   #817
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Just finished the game. Loved every minute of it. Some of the moments and scenes through this game were absolutely memorable. I would go almost as far to say this is GOTY.

Would love to see a spin-off of some sort.

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Old 01-04-2014, 12:11 AM   #818
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They barely notice your Ai partners. So it must be cause you rushed things a little. just pace your self better your supposed to be stealthy that always require patience. and doing so teaches you to have that.
Yeah, thanks for the tip. In the hotel lobby part, I kept dying when the stalkers and the bloater showed up when I activated the generator. I eventually figured out that it was best to get the hotel keycard first and then activate the generator so I wouldn't have to deal with the infected.

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Old 01-04-2014, 05:29 PM   #819
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Yeah, thanks for the tip. In the hotel lobby part, I kept dying when the stalkers and the bloater showed up when I activated the generator. I eventually figured out that it was best to get the hotel keycard first and then activate the generator so I wouldn't have to deal with the infected.
The hotel lobby part had me shlttlng bricks. Too damn scary.

I found the keycard first then found the generator after while and the first time I activated it I died. The Bloater's appearance had me shocked and I didn't know what to do in that moment. The Bloater went on to devour me and I stopped playing for 2 days. Once I started playing again I activated the generator and I ran, I fwcking ran without looking back all the way up to the keycard door which I struggled to open because I hit triangle before using the keycard I thought I was gonna die but I just made it through in the end.

fwck yea


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Old 01-05-2014, 12:32 AM   #820
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I didn't seem to have a problem with that I just hauled ass once I hit the generator didn't really have any thing besides a runner getting me

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Old 01-09-2014, 09:10 AM   #821
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I've just started playing this, and I love it. The setting and all reminds me of Jak II (my first Naughty Dog game, which I still enjoy replaying): the dystopian cities, the wild overtaking the ruins of the outside world, the resistance movement, the oppressive government regime, and a child of importance (the kid in Jak II, Ellie in here).

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Old 01-09-2014, 12:36 PM   #822
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Is there any news regarding the release date for the single player DLC?

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Old 01-09-2014, 12:51 PM   #823
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Is there any news regarding the release date for the single player DLC?
No.

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Old 01-11-2014, 12:15 AM   #824
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Is there any news regarding the release date for the single player DLC?
Assuming you're talking about Left Behind, I just know that it's coming out sometime this year. I should run the DLC code since I finished the game and also because my PS3 runs a lot faster over a wired connection.

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Old 01-11-2014, 09:49 PM   #825
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http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/01/10...me-of-the-year

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