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Old 03-13-2014, 09:17 AM   #951
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

And the opening to Saving Private Ryan is incredibly powerful. It MEANs something. It moved people to tears.

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Old 03-13-2014, 10:33 AM   #952
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

I find that interesting given at that point in time absolutely none of the characters had all that much of this 'all important' character development or time for the audience to get to know and care about them. Who knew.

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Nope, that scene is simply very well done, i can follow the action, instead of only looking at the soldier's feet, the shaky makes it look like found footage of war in a way, makes the battle look even more realistic.
Many have that exact opinion about the action coverage in TF. And that's the point. Anyone can show up and state these opinions about shaky cam action. That 'it could be clearer' and 'people should look different so I can tell them apart easier.... To each their own.

If it's not the story/characters that has been generating this loyal/growing audience all these years...the action has gotta be engaging with someone. Imagine my surprise to find out these same people can't actually follow it in the slightest. Begs the question of just what it is they are going for.

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Old 03-13-2014, 10:43 AM   #953
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Well, i can follow around 70% of it, but the main problem is that it's so full of unpleasant close-ups, then in scenes like the forest battle most of what we see in the bots sometimes are just their feet, i didn't have that problem in the 3rd film at all.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:07 AM   #954
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

If you were a human on the battle ground, most you would see of 40 foot robots is their feet. At a certain point it becomes about immersive film making. Celebrated in some films others apparently not so much.

I've always been of the mind that detractors just want their TF action a certain way. Ie, they want to see full bodies doing full body things. All bay cares about is immersive realism in his action. Not so much different than Paul Greengrass. I also think anyone can follow these things if they really want to, they simply don't like it. But that's imo.

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Old 03-13-2014, 11:09 AM   #955
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I find that interesting given at that point in time absolutely none of the characters had all that much of this 'all important' character development or time for the audience to get to know and care about them. Who knew.
We know that they are soldiers fighting in the most important moment in the most important war of the 20th century. And it was incredibly accurate and harrowing. Real men went through that ordeal. That's all we need to know.

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Old 03-13-2014, 11:30 AM   #956
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We know that they are soldiers fighting in the most important moment in the most important war of the 20th century. And it was incredibly accurate and harrowing. Real men went through that ordeal. That's all we need to know.
So all things external to the film narrative itself.
Surely you can understand how this won't apply to everyone in the audience(objectively) and thus it becomes a very circumstantial analysis. It begs the question of why people come down so hard on the same sort of scenes in pearl harbor.

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:59 PM   #957
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Pearl Harbor didn't portray the soldiers in as positive light, it kind of made a joke out of them in various scenes. As i said, i just found the way RotF was shot very unpleasant, and i didn't find the same problem in DotM.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:27 PM   #958
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Pearl Harbor didn't portray the soldiers in as positive light, it kind of made a joke out of them in various scenes. As i said, i just found the way RotF was shot very unpleasant, and i didn't find the same problem in DotM.
I don't think there were many jokes made of the many soldiers in the footage during the actual attack. I'm not talking about what people think of the various characterizations during other parts of the film.

As for your thoughts on RotF, I'm sure you'll agree this criticism has plagued the entire franchise when it comes to fans/non fans. From day one. Guess we can only speak for ourselves(though critics like to tell us what's what).

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Old 03-13-2014, 02:53 PM   #959
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There was that idiotic soldier who was constantly making weird noises with his mouth for comic relief, there was also a scene of a soldier in the middle of attack with a toothbrush.

I agree that i find the 1st and 3rd very entertaining, but most of the criticism they get is deserved, in least when it comes to the script and characters. When it comes to action However, i think it's usually quite good, i remember when The Avengers came out and everybody was talking about how superior its City battle was, compared to Transformers 3's, then i went to see that film and was disapointed by the action, which was very standard. You really see Michael Bay's major focus on making the action amazing.

I also agree that the internet often exagerated what's popular and what's hated, if what the fandom said was allways a fact, then Avatar wouldn't have made half of what it did, Transformers wouldn't be such a major franchise and Thor 2 would have on the very least made a billion thanks to Loki. Oh, and The Man of Steel would have been the best film of the summer.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:34 PM   #960
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There was that idiotic soldier who was constantly making weird noises with his mouth for comic relief, there was also a scene of a soldier in the middle of attack with a toothbrush.
I don't remember too well(only saw it once) but comic characters aren't foreign to war films and they are a stable of enjoyable cinema(even titanic), throughout the ages. That being said a guy with a toothbrush in the middle of an attack turns people off to sympathy? Tragic really. Same with a guy the stutter?

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I agree that i find the 1st and 3rd very entertaining, but most of the criticism they get is deserved, in least when it comes to the script and characters. When it comes to action However, i think it's usually quite good, i remember when The Avengers came out and everybody was talking about how superior its City battle was, compared to Transformers 3's, then i went to see that film and was disapointed by the action, which was very standard. You really see Michael Bay's major focus on making the action amazing.

I also agree that the internet often exagerated what's popular and what's hated, if what the fandom said was allways a fact, then Avatar wouldn't have made half of what it did, Transformers wouldn't be such a major franchise and Thor 2 would have on the very least made a billion thanks to Loki. Oh, and The Man of Steel would have been the best film of the summer.
I tend to agree with some parts of this. I think you are missing the mark with what the internet thinks about mos vs the GA.

Bay enjoys scene set up on a visual level. It's why his imagery looks so appealing to the average person, why his camera's are low and often moving and the lighting is saturated to commercial levels. You apply this to action and you get some pretty amazing visceral movements(badboys 2 circling around the room shot), especially on freeways. Avengers wasn't made by that kinda person which is why the action, especially the non city stuff(no one really talks about that), hinges more relevance rather than pure cinematography. I digress though. Like avengers had, bay needs a good writer to tie the action plot together and allow for grandiose character moments. Hopefully they nail it in this one. I'm sure he's watched avengers and perhaps picked up a few ideas. I personally hope for more freeway chasing stuff.

I prey for the day a Superman film is lit like a bay movie.

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Old 03-13-2014, 04:01 PM   #961
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

In most wars, a lot of guys have quirks or crack jokes to keep themselves from going insane or just breaking down crying in fear.

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Old 03-13-2014, 04:49 PM   #962
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

In other news.... It appears the theories regarding the various Chevy Trax cars on set might be accurate... Seems there may be some sort of Bot character(s) that use the vehicle as an Alt mode...

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Old 03-13-2014, 04:52 PM   #963
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I doubt Michael Bay is the type of person who likes The Avengers, didn't he say that he didn't like superheroes? The action and set pieces were also not really something to write home about compared to many other blockbuster films, so there are no reasons for him to be inspired by the action either

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 03-13-2014, 05:40 PM   #964
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

Also, i'm actually surprised at how quickly they keep churning out these TF movies. With the amount of FX involved, you would think it would take many years between movies, but the first 3 were out every other year.

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Old 03-13-2014, 05:50 PM   #965
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Well, they're still taking two years and needing to rush the job, Bay even wanted to have a year off after the 2nd one.

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Old 03-13-2014, 06:36 PM   #966
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Rush? Isn't two years the standard for these big genre sequels? I mean just look at marvel.

Anyways Paramount needs this and bay, after disney bought all their hard work with marvel. Hasbro is Paramounts big partner going forward into the breach.

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Old 03-13-2014, 08:43 PM   #967
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

Quote:
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If you were a human on the battle ground, most you would see of 40 foot robots is their feet. At a certain point it becomes about immersive film making. Celebrated in some films others apparently not so much.

I've always been of the mind that detractors just want their TF action a certain way. Ie, they want to see full bodies doing full body things. All bay cares about is immersive realism in his action. Not so much different than Paul Greengrass. I also think anyone can follow these things if they really want to, they simply don't like it. But that's imo.
And its pretty obvious Bay was going with shooting this way from the start, in every TF movie there have been shots solely from the human perspective of these bots fighting. I have personally never had a problem following any of the action in any of the TF movies.

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Old 03-14-2014, 03:27 AM   #968
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Rush? Isn't two years the standard for these big genre sequels? I mean just look at marvel.

Anyways Paramount needs this and bay, after disney bought all their hard work with marvel. Hasbro is Paramounts big partner going forward into the breach.
Well, to make such a big film in only 2 years you need to do it very fast, look at The Amazing Spider-Man for example, it didn't have as much grand scale moments as the Transformers movies but they still took an entire year for the post-production. I wouldn't say that these films come out faster than normal, but they certainly do a very quick job, seems like Michael Bay is already accostumed to making these big set-pieces.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:35 AM   #969
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

Definitaly curious about seeing the Dinobots!

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Old 03-14-2014, 11:44 AM   #970
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So, seems like Trent DeMarco from Transformers was Trent DeMarco from Friday the 13th

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Trent

There exists a Bayverse, they can now make crossovers and spin-offs

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 03-14-2014, 02:03 PM   #971
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

By the way, before DotM has there ever been any incarnation where Sentinel Prime is a villain?

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Old 03-14-2014, 05:18 PM   #972
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

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Also, i'm actually surprised at how quickly they keep churning out these TF movies. With the amount of FX involved, you would think it would take many years between movies, but the first 3 were out every other year.
2004-2007: Transformers
2007-2009: RotF
2009-2011: DotM
2012-2014: AoE

Year gap is because of Pain and Gain and Bay's other projects ;-)

It's a well oiled machine with these big films, I'd be surprised if it took longer then two years. By the way, to add more to that, I was watching the features of DotM and apparently ONE FRAME of Shockwave's pet/car...ONE FRAME...took 266 hours. And this is just one eye for 3D as well, and of course that means it took double the time for 3D, and for the amount of time it's on screen.

I'm sorry, I can do nothing but applaud them for their work. People can $#!7 on these movies all they want. People do hard yakka getting these into cinemas and complete, polished and industry standard. You gotta hand that to the effects houses - which are so often ignored within the industry. Last I heard Rhythm and Hues (who did the effects for Life of Pi) got closed down. Okay, I was wrong, but they still went through some terrible stuff.

Thankfully ILM and Weta are so entrenched in the industry that I doubt anything like this would happen to them - but for the smaller effects houses...yikes.

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Old 03-14-2014, 05:37 PM   #973
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Default Re: Transformers 4 is going to be AWESOME.

As an artist i commend them for their amazing visuals and CG work.

My two year comment was more in the line that they spend little time developing a well written story.

I believe each sequel went into production at the end of the very same year the previous film premiered in, so the scripts were rushed. We know what happened with ROTF (the writers strike) but DOTM's story was no better, imo and i have very little faith for this one.

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Old 03-14-2014, 08:43 PM   #974
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I found DotM still incredibly flawed, but still far superior to the 2nd film, felt more like there was a scale in not only the action but in the plot too, more like the 1st film in fact, with a bunch of events leading into one big climax.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:42 AM   #975
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By the way, is anyone here registered in the Shootfortheedit forums? You know, the oficial Michael Bay movies forum. How do you register? The option seems to be blocked right now, can anyone convence them to open it for a while?

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