The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread

[BobJM]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Basically this

yeah, this is what I was going for. What issue is this?

[BobJM]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

The name Captain Marvel comes with a buttload of baggage, imho. Not just on Marvel's side, where it's been applied to *several* characters both male and female, but of course in DC Comics as well.

I still think Warbird is an ideal name, especially if they give Carol the fighter pilot backstory.

Captain Marvel does come with baggage, but, ideally, that'd be explored in a film. And for those saying that Mar-Vell will always be Captain Marvel. True...but he's dead. And he's stayed dead.

Just as it is in the comics, it should be in the film. He should play a large role in a Miss Marvel film, but when he passes and Carol absorbs his powers, she should inherit his rank (and, therefore, his name).

Something about a experience military figure downgrading herself to "Miss" makes it sound like she's stepping back into the 50s. Miss Marvel just sounds like a pin-up girl, not a heroine who can handle herself on the battlefield.

Warbird is a cool name, too, however, she hasn't gone by that in quite some time if I'm not mistaken. It would seem strange for her to revert back to that on screen, especially if she only just became Captain Marvel in the comics. But, it'd be cool to see that referenced. Maybe have an early scene of her flying in a jet and her codename is Warbird or it can be seen on her helmet/jet.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by BobJM

yeah, this is what I was going for. What issue is this?

One of the two Avenging Spider-Man issues she was in, forget which

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Exactly, and it's not just a time thing, but a budget thing. We got minute after minute of team ups and such and such and such, lots of practical effects and a few CGI flourishes for entrances/exits and backgrounds... and the Hulk. I don't think the movie could have come in on budget if they had Thor dropping New York sized Thunderstorms on Loki while Loki creates a hundred images of himself to battle.

And even if they could afford to put that in too, herolee, a fight choreographer would have nothing to do with it.

True, but I felt like the fight between Thor and Loki lacked "intensity". I mean, I didn't want like a drawn out fight between; I mean I prefer quality over quantity, and I feel like that they could have done better.

I mean Transformers 3 had a smaller budget than "The Avengers" and yet I feel like it came off as more cinematic in visuals only.lol...and in the intensity of its scenes at times.

Plus, I feel like Marvel is still playing the safe card with their audiences since if people notice closely, there hasn't really been any public casualties on a wide scale basis shown on screen in the MCU films since "The Incredible Hulk". Sure we see people running around screaming, but you never really see a body count. I never got a sense that lives were at stake because the way things played out on screen for these films, you'd know that the hero would come out on top, thus the threat level and the stakes never really felt as high as they could and should have been.

[Chewy]

Look they aren't going to show dead civilians bodies littering the streets. I really don't know how to respond when people bring that up as a complaint. This is family-friendly big budget cinema, not Saving Private Ryan

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Look they aren't going to show dead civilians bodies littering the streets. I really don't know how to respond when people bring that up as a complaint. This is family-friendly big budget cinema, not Saving Private Ryan

I get that and i wasn't talking about the kind seen in a R Rated film. I was talking more along the lines that and I can't believe I keep using his films as a example of all things.lol...remember in the sequence or montage in Transformers 3 (for those who actually saw it) where the Decepticons started attacking San Francisco and we saw them attacking the people on the streets. We saw people on the ground and even dead folks in the bus from all of the explosions.

Heck, Iron man 1 did a good job in realistically showing the horrors of the wars going on from terrorists in the Middle East in that scene before Iron Man first arrived onto the field.

The same can also be said for any Lord of the Ring films as well, especially with the battle for helms deep.

All of those films were PG-13; and I don't want Marvel Studios to make their products so kid friendly that it hurts their product in the way that the WWE has been doing with theirs.

[Chewy]

They didn't show dead civilians in Iron Man, either. They showed civilians being rounded up, and Iron Man killing terrorists. Which is about what was shown in Avengers.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by Chewy

They didn't show dead civilians in Iron Man, either. They showed civilians being rounded up, and Iron Man killing terrorists. Which is about what was shown in Avengers.

They had shown some of the terrorists chasing down the civilians into their houses and shooting them inside.

In "The Incredible Hulk" we saw the Abomination throwing people that weren't military soldiers to their deaths as well.

[Chewy]

Yeah and they showed the Chitauri destroying buildings and blasting away at civilians, too. Implied death is one thing (something they have and will presumably continue to feature), while showing "public casualties on a wide scale basis" is a whole 'nother thing

[Joeyjojo72]

Im totally fine with the MCU version of Captain Marvel being Danvers from the very beginning. If they want to reserve it for Mar-Vell down the road, then she can keep her real name with maybe a humorous "Ms. Marvel?" headlining her photo on the cover of a New York tabloid.

In TA, they all pretty much used their own names. In fact, outside of her opening scene, did anyone ever refer to Natasha as Black Widow? The name isnt really critical, especially since (im guessing) she wont power up until the middle of the movie.

[Ash Talon]

They can make Carol's origin a bit along the lines of the Green Lantern's. Marvell is observing Earth for his race and is killed saving innocents, or he comes to Earth to warn us of Thanos. Maybe even have him appear in Guardians of the Galaxy, so we're familiar with him and his power set. He dies on earth and somehow Carol absorbs his powers. Since she's ranked as a Captain in the military (SHIELD maybe?), she uses her rank and Marvell's name (as an homage) to create the identity of Captain Marvel. I don't think it will be that shocking for audiences to have 2 Captains on the team. There's even a few jokes to be made about it. Certainly, it would be easier to call her Warbird, but I think her being called Captain Marvel pays respect to and gels with the comics more.

[Ash Talon]

And I think a few civilians could have died in the Avengers. Hell, the Chitauri break into the office building and start shooting...the walls. They're worse shots than Cobra in GI Joe. A few civilians could have been vaporized.

[herolee10]

On another note, here's a visual that I definitely want to see in the sequel:

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by Ash Talon

And I think a few civilians could have died in the Avengers. Hell, the Chitauri break into the office building and start shooting...the walls. They're worse shots than Cobra in GI Joe. A few civilians could have been vaporized.

Lest there be any doubt: in the deleted scenes section of TA, when Hill is being interrogated by the Council (it was originally supposed to be the opening scene of the movie), she indicates that casualties numbered in the thousands.

Lotta dead people in Manhattan.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Lest there be any doubt: in the deleted scenes section of TA, when Hill is being interrogated by the Council (it was originally supposed to be the opening scene of the movie), she indicates that casualties numbered in the thousands.

Lotta dead people in Manhattan.

True, but deleted scenes can't really be taken as canon due to them having been deleted from the film...

[Golgo-13]

I also think the woman that plays the blonde lead on abc's show 'Revenge' would make a good Carol/Ms.Marvel.

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by herolee10

On another note, here's a visual that I definitely want to see in the sequel:

okay, I've seen this all over the place, what comic is this from, and is it released yet? I know its one of the new avengers comics, but is it out?

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by herolee10

True, but deleted scenes can't really be taken as canon due to them having been deleted from the film...

I disagree, but in any event, it reinforces what most people already assume: lotta dead people in Manhattan.

[Joeyjojo72]

yeah, there were definitely mass casualties. they needed a relatively upbeat ending tho, which is why they scrapped Hill's dealie at the end there. and obviously they had to steer clear of any imagery that might allude to 9/11. but as cherokeesam said, "lotta dead people".

[Rock Sexton]

Seeing Thanos one hand lift Hulk like that would be freaking intense.

BTW, I'm sure it's been discussed before at some point ...... but I'm curious as to all of the potential spin-off and reverse engineering of all of the stuff left by the Chitauri. That had to have been one helluva sweep and clean up of the streets, not to mention leviathans sitting on building tops. I know that there's that short film of the people trying to rob a bank with a Chitauri gun ..... but there's bound to be a lot more influence throughout the rest of the films in the MCU.

[Duran Man]

Originally Posted by Ash Talon

And I think a few civilians could have died in the Avengers. Hell, the Chitauri break into the office building and start shooting...the walls. They're worse shots than Cobra in GI Joe. A few civilians could have been vaporized.

There was a clip of a candle light vigil during the news montage bit towards the end, so I'd say that, yes, people were indeed killed (I doubt all of the buildings that the Leviathans crushed had no people inside).

[Chewy]

Yeah of course people got killed. They get killed in all of those movies. Buildings get destroyed and there are explosions galore. But when you go online and people complain because there aren't enough on-camera civilian deaths you just gotta shake your head

[Dark Raven]

I prefer her to be Ms Marvel. She can still hold the rank of Captain but they can refer to her as Ms (possibly out of lack of respect?). I don't think it's a lack of respect though necessarily. In Star Trek, Spock was always called Mr Spock. That's not his rank, since he was Commander, but Kirk (or the crew) rarely called him by that. Kirk also always used Mr for other crewmembers - eg Mr Sulu, Mr Chekov, Mr Scott (although he did use Scotty as well).

So I think Ms Marvel could still work.

[DrCosmic]

In the Navy, women are to be called Mister or by their rank. This is true in the Star Trek Navy as well as the real life Navies of the world. There is no real life or fictional reference point for calling military people "Ms."

The best way to get away with calling her Ms. Marvel without it being completely ridiculous is they call her that in reference to her relationship with Captain Marvel, that could be a teasing disrepsect thing, but in any case, there's no reality where a lifetime military woman takes the name Ms. Marvel to represent herself. This is a consequences of female characters being written as shallow supporting characters over so many decades - some things need to be changed in order to make them deep central characters.

[Hawkingbird]

They had shots of people lighting candles, so I presume people died.