The Kirsten Dunst/Mary Jane Watson Thread - Part 1

[Venom75]

I wouldn't really blame her that much for MJ's horrible interpertation in the films. Blame Raimi and/or the writers.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Gwendolyn Stacy

A couple of my favorite scenes with MJ would be where she sang "They Say It's Wonderful" and "I'm Through With Love". Personally, I like her version better than the original Marilyn Monroe song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p99XfZ1UY1M

The Woody version.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Spider-ManHero12

Anybody have a favorite scene with MJ?

When she tried to sneak up on Doc Ock and hit him with the plank of wood, and he just casually swats her away like a fly.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Venom75

I wouldn't really blame her that much for MJ's horrible interpertation in the films. Blame Raimi and/or the writers.

You can blame her since she can't act.

Originally Posted by The Joker

When she tried to sneak up on Doc Ock and hit him with the plank of wood, and he just casually swats her away like a fly.

This.

[Venom75]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

You can blame her since she can't act.

She has been nominated for,and won a few awards in her career,including a Golden Globe. She is also getting strong Oscar buzz for her role in Melancholia.
So,the girl can act. Maybe she just knew that her character wasn't all that interesting?

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Venom75

She has been nominated for,and won a few awards in her career,including a Golden Globe. She is also getting strong Oscar buzz for her role in Melancholia.
So,the girl can act. Maybe she just knew that her character wasn't all that interesting?

How could she if comics' MJ was far more interesting than she was? Even if she thought it was uninteresting it's up to her to make the character interesting somehow. I wish her MJ had had the comics version's personality.

[Spider-ManHero12]

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[Spider-ManHero12]

I guess I'm the only one that really liked MJ in this trilogy.

[El Payaso]

I liked Kirsten in SM2. She had enough to do there. All Peter-MJ was good enough there.

[Gwendolyn Stacy]

Originally Posted by Spider-ManHero12

I guess I'm the only one that really liked MJ in this trilogy.

I loved the movie version of MJ. Really, the only version where she acted like her comic book counterpart was TSSM. But either way, Mary Jane is one of my favorite characters.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by Venom75

She has been nominated for,and won a few awards in her career,including a Golden Globe. She is also getting strong Oscar buzz for her role in Melancholia.
So,the girl can act. Maybe she just knew that her character wasn't all that interesting?

"Maybe she just knew that her character wasn't that interesting?"

For the entire trilogy, or what? Why even audition if she thought Mary Jane "wasn't interesting"?

And besides, even if bad writing, should that even matter? Ivan Vanko was a very bad character, but Mickey Rourke made it interesting to watch in IM 2.

Originally Posted by El Payaso

I liked Kirsten in SM2. She had enough to do there. All Peter-MJ was good enough there.

That's why Spider-Man 2 was the best of the trilogy. Everyone was on their A-game and in 1 and 3, I only enjoyed J.K. Simmons and James Franco.

[The Joker]

I think she's rather insufferable in all three movies, though to varying degrees.

I didn't like how she had went from Flash, to Harry, to wanting Spider-Man, and then wanting Peter in Spider-Man 1. Talk about throwing your feminine wiles around.

In Spider-Man 2, she gets engaged to John Jameson, and then tries to get with Peter behind his back, and then jilts John at the altar. People cheer MJ for going to Peter, but they forget the people who she tramples on along the way. John was a good guy and didn't do anything to deserve that.

Spider-Man 3 is by FAR her at her worst. Let me list the reasons why she is so bad in this:

- "I want to sing for the rest of my life and I want you in the first row". "Tell me you love me". Selfish touches like this. She wants Peter at her beck and call. She tells him to tell her he loves her and then doesn't say it back to him when he does.
- She gets a bad review, and Peter tries to reassure her that it'll be ok, that she was great, and it's just one critic's opinion. She throws it back in his face. "Don't give me the horse thing!!!".
- She gets in a strop about Peter using "Our kiss" on Gwen in a harmless publicity event. Yet it was ok for her to use the sacred kiss on John Jameson, and that was a real emotional kiss, not some publicity stunt.
- She moans at Peter for not understanding how she feels, when she never bothers her ass to tell him she got fired from her show. So how is he supposed to understand something you never told him about?
- MJ inevitably ends up kissing Harry. She finally is with Peter, the guy she supposedly really loves, and yet she still manages to end up locking lips with someone else.
- Harry tells her if she wants Peter to live then she has to break up with him. Harry didn't threaten her life, or Aunt May's, or anyone elses. Just Peter's. So why didn't MJ just tell Peter what Harry was trying to do? She of all people knows what he is capable of as Spider-Man. She's seen him take on Green Goblin and Doc Ock herself, who were far superior foes to Harry on his little Back to the Future hoverboard. But no MJ goes and gives into Harry's weak threat and breaks Peter's heart.

I dare say Dunst's MJ is a contender for the worst superhero love interest ever.

[Anno_Domini]

You can at least say MJ was probably the most stable-minded in Spider-Man 2, though. She didn't jump from one person to the other; she kept wanting Peter and then finally left John at the end. Sure, it's messed up for John, but at least it wasn't as floozy as 1, or even as "psychotic" or selfish in 3.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

You can at least say MJ was probably the most stable-minded in Spider-Man 2, though. She didn't jump from one person to the other; she kept wanting Peter and then finally left John at the end. Sure, it's messed up for John, but at least it wasn't as floozy as 1, or even as "psychotic" or selfish in 3.

I do agree she was at her least selfish in Spider-Man 2, but she was still using poor John as a security blanket when she obviously didn't really love him.

Her being at her least annoying in that is one of the many advantages Spidey 2 has over the other two movies.

[Anno_Domini]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I do agree she was at her least selfish in Spider-Man 2, but she was still using poor John as a security blanket when she obviously didn't really love him.

One reason why I think bringing back John Jameson for some kind of plot or closure would've been great for Spider-Man 3. I mean, yes, he was used only as a rug for MJ to step on, but it would have been great for him to return and possibly find out that Peter is Spidey and...I don't know, either be a villain, or blackmail him? That would've been a nice plot, imo.

[Venom75]

Originally Posted by Anno_Domini

"Maybe she just knew that her character wasn't that interesting?"

For the entire trilogy, or what? Why even audition if she thought Mary Jane "wasn't interesting"?

Well,I think that for her the first film was fun and exciting because she'd never done a huge blockbuster like that before,and she obviously thought it would help her career. When I watch the first film,she had the most energy for the character in that movie because it was new. But you could see her interest kinda fade after each film because the writers really didn't give her enough to do. Scream,get captured and scream some more. Rinse and repeat. Part 2 was the "deepest" MJ had been in the series,imo.
I will agree that she could've done more with MJ. It's not all the writers or Raimi's fault. But,it's like Joker pointed out before. Look at all the character flaws in the 3 films. How she just seemed to use men,and how selfish she was,esp. in part 3. That's not the actor's(Kirsten) fault.

[Anno_Domini]

She was great acting-wise in Spider-Man 2, which coincidentally was her better performance as MJ, but even with how the writing of her character was in 1 and 3, Kirsten Dunst was TERRIBLE. THAT is Kirsten's fault.

[UltimateWebhead]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I do agree she was at her least selfish in Spider-Man 2, but she was still using poor John as a security blanket when she obviously didn't really love him.

Her being at her least annoying in that is one of the many advantages Spidey 2 has over the other two movies.

She was confused and upset and wanted Peter but he kept denying her. Maybe she was using John but it wasn't a selfish move on her part and it's due to the above reasons. MJ was trying to move on without Peter and thought she was in love with John because honestly what girl wouldn't be...he's good looking, has a great career, cares about MJ deeply, supports her (he's been to see her play nine times or something like that) etc. etc. etc. It would make sense for a girl to fall for him and so MJ continues to tell herself those things but she was just trying to fool herself and then finally, she admits the truth to herself when she recreates the 'upside down' kiss with John. It was a very poetic moment.

People make mistakes and we often will try to convince ourselves of a truth even though in our hearts we know that it is false. It's not selfish, it's just being hopeful or something. Misguided intentions.

[UltimateWebhead]

Also, this thread has me laughing a bit too. I understand that we think Kirsten is not the 'typical' MJ but I'm sure some of you need to take a look in the mirror before judging her appearance while the paprazzi catch her walking down the street or something else casual. Just think what someone may say about you when you're not all 'done up' and dressed for the best.

[naveenseo]

Kirsten Dunst is very actress. she did a fabulous work in spider man series movies. She doing very good acting and she is very sexy and beautiful actress in Hollywood. I like her very much.


Cooking Oil Exporter

[Spider-ManHero12]

Cooking oil, lol?

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by UltimateWebhead

She was confused and upset and wanted Peter but he kept denying her.

Bull.

Peter denied her two years ago at the end of Spider-Man 1. She had two years to accept it. She shouldn't be with John or any guy, much less get engaged to them, if she's not ready to move on.

Maybe she was using John but it wasn't a selfish move on her part and it's due to the above reasons.

Those reasons are nonsense.

MJ was trying to move on without Peter and thought she was in love with John because honestly what girl wouldn't be...he's good looking, has a great career, cares about MJ deeply, supports her (he's been to see her play nine times or something like that) etc. etc. etc. It would make sense for a girl to fall for him and so MJ continues to tell herself those things but she was just trying to fool herself and then finally, she admits the truth to herself when she recreates the 'upside down' kiss with John. It was a very poetic moment.

Not once in the whole entire movie does she ever say or even hint that she loves him. At best she says she "likes" him.

MJ: "I'm seeing somebody now"
Peter: "You mean like a boyfriend?"
MJ: "Well....I like him"

He was a security blanket she used as a consolation prize because she couldn't have the guy she wanted. She was using him. If she really loved him at all, she wouldn't have been trying to hook up with peter behind his back, and she certainly wouldn't have jilted him at the altar and left him a friggin' note instead of letting him down gently in person.

People make mistakes and we often will try to convince ourselves of a truth even though in our hearts we know that it is false. It's not selfish, it's just being hopeful or something. Misguided intentions.

I'm sorry, but it was two years later after Peter rejected her. She had two years to accept it and move on. But she didn't. She used John because she couldn't get the guy she really wanted. She shouldn't be with any guy if she's not ready to move on.

She was selfish to the hilt.

[A Necessary Evil]

This post above me, it sounds like my ex-girlfriend.


LOL.

[UltimateWebhead]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Bull.

1) Peter denied her two years ago at the end of Spider-Man 1. She had two years to accept it. She shouldn't be with John or any guy, much less get engaged to them, if she's not ready to move on.


2)Those reasons are nonsense.





3) Not once in the whole entire movie does she ever say or even hint that she loves him. At best she says she "likes" him.

MJ: "I'm seeing somebody now"
Peter: "You mean like a boyfriend?"
MJ: "Well....I like him"


4) He was a security blanket she used as a consolation prize because she couldn't have the guy she wanted. She was using him. If she really loved him at all, she wouldn't have been trying to hook up with peter behind his back, and she certainly wouldn't have jilted him at the altar and left him a friggin' note instead of letting him down gently in person.

1) How do you know what went on in the two years after Spider-man 1? Peter was obviously still in love with MJ and she knew it...she was trying to get him to be honest with himself and admit that he loved her. How frustrating do you think that must have been for MJ? To know that someone truly loves you but is not willing to admit it (although Peter had a good reason in doing so).

People are always getting into relationships that just don't make sense. This was one of those times. She was just trudging along in a relationship with John and his consistent support of her and courting her, led her to believe that being with him was a good thing, even though it really wasn't. This is a common error that people make. Have you seen the divorce rate?

2) Nah. They are good reasons but it's cool that you disagree with them.

3) Well that's the problem now isn't it. She 'thinks' that she is in love with him and even tells her friend that in one of the added scenes in SM 2.1.

Friend: Do you even love this guy?
MJ: Yeah.

Of course she doesn't...she loves Peter. But what's the point of continuing to chase someone who won't be there for you. John was the next best thing. The heart is a complicated thing especially when the mind gets in the way. All MJ wants is to be happy in love in a relationship. And let's not forget that Peter was also playing mind games with her...

Peter: "I thought there was something I had to do but now I realize I don't anymore...let's pick up where we left off."

The next day...

Peter: "I thought I could be there for you MJ but I can't."

Yeah. So. That's kind of a mind **** job right there. She is very confused and her intentions are thus misguided.

4) I agree that those are crappy things to do to another person but the heart wants what the heart wants. She would have been doing more damage in the long run had she just stayed with John and ignored her feelings for Peter. Their relationship would have ended and a lot of pain would have ensued. I do agree that MJ handled the whole thing pretty poorly but then again she's not exactly devoid of problems herself. She had a horrible upbringing and suffers from lack of selfconfidence. This leads to her lack of properly dealing with issues I guess.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by UltimateWebhead

1) How do you know what went on in the two years after Spider-man 1? Peter was obviously still in love with MJ and she knew it...she was trying to get him to be honest with himself and admit that he loved her. How frustrating do you think that must have been for MJ? To know that someone truly loves you but is not willing to admit it (although Peter had a good reason in doing so).

Because the opening lines by Peter is him reminding the audience that he rejected MJ two years ago because his life as Spider-Man was too dangerous.

Being still in love with her doesn't mean he's been stringing her along with constant rejections. In fact the movie makes the point that she hardly ever sees him anyway because his life is too busy.

People are always getting into relationships that just don't make sense. This was one of those times.

People are always committing murder, too. That doesn't make that right either.

She was just trudging along in a relationship with John and his consistent support of her and courting her, led her to believe that being with him was a good thing, even though it really wasn't. This is a common error that people make. Have you seen the divorce rate?

Again, this doesn't justify what she was doing. The world is full of selfish people who use others just to fill a void in their life.

MJ was one of those people. You pointing out it happens in the real world doesn't make it any better.

2) Nah. They are good reasons but it's cool that you disagree with them.

How are they good reasons? Explain to me how you can justify using someone in a loveless relationship because she can't get over someone who rejected her TWO years ago makes what MJ did not selfish.

3) Well that's the problem now isn't it. She 'thinks' that she is in love with him and even tells her friend that in one of the added scenes in SM 2.1.

Of course she doesn't...she loves Peter. But what's the point of continuing to chase someone who won't be there for you. John was the next best thing. The heart is a complicated thing especially when the mind gets in the way. All MJ wants is to be happy in love in a relationship.

You're just re-enforcing my point. She was only being with John because she couldn't have the guy she really wanted. "The next best thing" is not someone you don't love.

And let's not forget that Peter was also playing mind games with her...

He did no such thing. After he quit being Spider-Man he could live a normal life and then went to her and offered her his love.

She was already engaged to John and everything by this point. If MJ had the slightest inkling she didn't love John and wanted Peter, which he obviously did especially after doing the upside down kiss on John and then going to meet Peter behind John's back, then she should have ended things with John then and there like any decent person would.

4) I agree that those are crappy things to do to another person but the heart wants what the heart wants.

Two things:

1. Her heart didn't want John and she knew that
2. It doesn't give her license to use someone else to fill an emotional void she can't get over even after 2 years

She would have been doing more damage in the long run had she just stayed with John and ignored her feelings for Peter.

Which she was clearly intending to do if she had not learned Peter was Spider-Man. I mean even after she learned Peter was Spider-Man she let the wedding proceed anyway, and of course had to wait until the last moment to run out on John and leave him a little card note.

Classy.

I do agree that MJ handled the whole thing pretty poorly but then again she's not exactly devoid of problems herself. She had a horrible upbringing and suffers from lack of self confidence. This leads to her lack of properly dealing with issues I guess.

That doesn't alter or excuse her selfish behavior. You don't mis treat other people just because you have personal issues.

MJ is painted as some paragon of virtue in these movies. Some kind of wonderful girl who Peter can only hope to dream of having. Yet she is one of the most selfish people ever to grace a comic book movie.

She throws her feminine wiles around like ninja stars.