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Old 12-30-2011, 01:19 AM   #1
The Overlord
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Default Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

Since it is unlikely that Mandarin will be the villain in the next Iron Man movie, who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie?

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Old 12-30-2011, 02:16 PM   #2
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

Mandarin should be the only answer.

They may as well not even make a part 3 if Mandarin isn't the baddy.

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Old 12-30-2011, 08:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

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Mandarin should be the only answer.

They may as well not even make a part 3 if Mandarin isn't the baddy.
Well they are making a part 3 and Shane Black doesn't seem to like Mandarin, saying he thinks the Mandarin is a racist stereotype, so its highly unlikely if he will be the villain in Iron Man 3. Besides if Shane Black doesn't like Mandarin, it wouldn't be a very good idea.

Like it or not, it is unlikely that Mandarin will be the villain in Iron Man 3.

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Old 12-31-2011, 10:08 AM   #4
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

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Mandarin should be the only answer.

They may as well not even make a part 3 if Mandarin isn't the baddy.
yeah, good luck with that...


any way, I'd say madame masque with ghost as a henchman.

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Old 01-01-2012, 07:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

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yeah, good luck with that...


any way, I'd say madame masque with ghost as a henchman.

Ditto.
Maybe throw Spymaster in with Whitney's crew, too.

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Old 01-16-2012, 01:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

I think they should adapt the Extremis story arc.

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Old 01-20-2012, 09:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

I'd rather like to see Living Laser

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Old 01-22-2012, 10:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

I wouldn't mind seeing Stark take on another hero's villain. I'm quite bored with him taking on only other armored suits. I know Favreau wanted to keep things grounded, but this movie takes place after the Avengers.
I know not everyone cares for cross-overs, but it is supposed to be one big universe. So why not have an Iron-man villain (like Mandarin) use, for example, Abomination as a henchman?

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Old 01-22-2012, 11:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

Stark has a good rouges gallery so I don't think he needs to fight someone else's villain. Should Mandarin not be the villain there are plenty of others to look at.

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Old 01-23-2012, 02:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

Mandarin or Madam Masque with The Ghost as a side-villain.

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Old 01-23-2012, 11:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

Mandarin is well overdue.

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

what about the Iron Man lionsgate animated movie interpretation of certain villains, like Whirlwind, Blizzard, and Firebrand, they were all recast as these magical elementals.. there could be a way for tech-based interpretations of all these characters-- having their armor focus on a particular gimmick-- whirlwind has lots of turbines for air-jet power blasts, blizzard can generate a high-tech cryogenic spray to create ice, and firebrand has an incendiary projection that sets fire to anything it touches..

I'm not sure about the Melter, the comics explanation for his gimmick was a little wacky..

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Old 01-27-2012, 09:52 AM   #13
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

Yeah, Mandarin's not happening. The director is put off by the inherent racism in the character.

Madame Masque and a Ghost-Mandarin fusion (ala Whiplash-Crimson Dynamo)

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Old 01-30-2012, 01:10 AM   #14
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

I want to see a giant Ultimo robot.. ah.. smashing time!

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Old 01-30-2012, 01:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

A powerful Asian mastermind with techno-magical rings is racist? Mandarin need not go full on Fu Manchu yellow peril to work, it's not inherent to the character at all.

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Old 01-30-2012, 03:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

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Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_ View Post
I'd rather like to see Living Laser
Yeah an update-to-date Mandarin, Living Laser, and Madame Masque (with her Dreadnaughts) are my top 3 choices for Iron Man 3's villain.

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A powerful Asian mastermind with techno-magical rings is racist? Mandarin need not go full on Fu Manchu yellow peril to work, it's not inherent to the character at all.
I agree

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Old 01-30-2012, 07:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

If not Mandarin (which is looking unlikely, sadly) I'd want to see Titanium Man.

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Old 01-30-2012, 09:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

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A powerful Asian mastermind with techno-magical rings is racist? Mandarin need not go full on Fu Manchu yellow peril to work, it's not inherent to the character at all.
The character of Wo Fat in the new Hawaii Five 0 series is an example of how the Mandarin could work. He was more yellow peril in the original series but has been updated to be even deadlier as played now by Marc Dacascos. I wouldn't say he's a racist caricature.

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Old 01-30-2012, 10:48 AM   #19
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

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A powerful Asian mastermind with techno-magical rings is racist? Mandarin need not go full on Fu Manchu yellow peril to work, it's not inherent to the character at all.
Yes, a chinese technological character that relies on chinese mysticism is indeed playing to a racist archetype. It's the same Fu Manchu weird mysterious asian power caricature, and it will be seen that way because that's what it is, that's what it was based on, and it is integral to a faithful representation of the character. And all the worse because it's supposed to be someone who is living a modern lifestyle, but they still can't seem to survive without mystserious asian serect powers. And he's evil, so it's up to the stalwart white hero to once again foil evil asian secret macguffins and save the western world. Cue eyerolling by culturally aware audience.

Scratch that, cue Senor Chang:
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vid...cher/17wgc234o

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The character of Wo Fat in the new Hawaii Five 0 series is an example of how the Mandarin could work. He was more yellow peril in the original series but has been updated to be even deadlier as played now by Marc Dacascos. I wouldn't say he's a racist caricature.
But Wo Fat was a spy. He was already pretty modernized. All they had to do to drop the Yellow Peril is drop his connection with China. He's his own man that just happens to be Asian. But what would Mandarin be without his mysticism? Without working for a Chinese government that is set against America?

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Old 01-30-2012, 11:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

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Yes, a chinese technological character that relies on chinese mysticism is indeed playing to a racist archetype. It's the same Fu Manchu weird mysterious asian power caricature, and it will be seen that way because that's what it is, that's what it was based on, and it is integral to a faithful representation of the character. And all the worse because it's supposed to be someone who is living a modern lifestyle, but they still can't seem to survive without mystserious asian serect powers. And he's evil, so it's up to the stalwart white hero to once again foil evil asian secret macguffins and save the western world. Cue eyerolling by culturally aware audience.

Scratch that, cue Senor Chang:
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vid...cher/17wgc234o



But Wo Fat was a spy. He was already pretty modernized. All they had to do to drop the Yellow Peril is drop his connection with China. He's his own man that just happens to be Asian. But what would Mandarin be without his mysticism? Without working for a Chinese government that is set against America?
Mandarin can still have his mysticism. After all, Dr Strange has that, and if Marvel are prepared to make a movie about him, then what's the problem with Mandarin? Mysticism doesn't make Mandarin a racist stereotype since mysticism hasn't anything to do with race. People don't think of Dr Strange as some kind of white Fu Manchu by virtue of his occult connections.

Maybe Shane Black just thinks all Asians or Chinese (with their traditions, culture and heritage) are racist caracatures themselves, even though they fully embrace and promote all of these things.

And I don't see why Wo Fat, even if he were connected to China, would make him anymore of a Yellow Peril character. It's not like everything Chinese is Yellow Peril. Like you said, he is his own man who just happens to be Asian. Spies can work for any government or even for no government.

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Old 01-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

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Mandarin can still have his mysticism. After all, Dr Strange has that, and if Marvel are prepared to make a movie about him, then what's the problem with Mandarin? Mysticism doesn't make Mandarin a racist stereotype since mysticism hasn't anything to do with race. People don't think of Dr Strange as some kind of white Fu Manchu by virtue of his occult connections.
It's all about context. When a Tom Cruise character talks slang, it says something different about the character than when a Will Smith character talks slang. Same words, same inflection. Different character perception, different audience reaction.

Dr. Strange, being a good guy, in a magical story, cannot further the idea that he is strange, inferior and evil by being mystical. He's a good guy, so he wins and he's in a story about magic, so what else is he going to use? Mandarin on the other hand, is in a story about a technological character, and since he is inferior technologically, then he must resort to mysticism to present a challenge to our hero. Furthermore, as always, Asian mysticism is used for evil purposes, because, in fiction, it is inherently evil.

Edit: As a bonus, you can bet that Wong in the Dr. Strange movie won't be an inferior submissive mysterious Asian mystic. They'll either make him better than Strange, like Kato in the new Green Hornet, or they won't include him.

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Maybe Shane Black just thinks all Asians or Chinese (with their traditions, culture and heritage) are racist caracatures themselves, even though they fully embrace and promote all of these things.
But Mandarin doesn't celebrate any real part of Chinese culture, he celebrates the racist caricature of Chinese culture - the part that real Asians don't embrace or promote. You will not see Mandarin involved in any real Chinese tradition, only ancient mysticism because he's a Fu Manchu, not a celebration of anything real and Chinese. I think Shane Black is culturally aware and doesn't mistake dragon decor for actual Chinese culture.

Edit: Contrast this with Lady Shiva, who also uses Eastern arts, but they are not mysterious, she's just really good at it, and she's in a story about people who are also good at it, but not as good as she is. She fits, she doesn't seem strangely dangerous, she's just plain old dangerous.

Again, this is how real Chinese people feel about the stereotype.

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And I don't see why Wo Fat, even if he were connected to China, would make him anymore of a Yellow Peril character. It's not like everything Chinese is Yellow Peril. Like you said, he is his own man who just happens to be Asian. Spies can work for any government or even for no government.
Yellow Peril is the idea that the Chinese are going to come and f' us up, because they're weird and different and communism is evil! The Wo Fat character, as a freelance character is just a bad guy. As a Chinese special agent, he's proof positive that China is evil.

Contrast with British or America spies who are never qualified as evil (unless they're betraying their country!), because America is good, and China is evil. That's Yellow Peril.


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Old 01-30-2012, 08:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

Ancient Chinese Mysticism involves alien technology? Who knew?

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Old 01-30-2012, 09:19 PM   #23
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Ancient Chinese Mysticism involves alien technology? Who knew?

Sure, Makluan tech powers Mandarin's rings. But he disguises it (for most of his Marvel career) in the trappings of Chinese mysticism. So he's not only a terribly offensive racist caricature, he's also a fraud.

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Old 01-30-2012, 09:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

Actually, him using the trappings of Chinese mysticism makes it not racist, and actually quite intelligent on the part of the character. Regardless, it can be changed and changed easily.

Unless having a Chinese man being a bad guy is racist, these arguments hold no more water than a bullet riddled cartoon character.

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Old 01-30-2012, 09:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: Who should be the villain in the next Iron Man movie

Yeah, I don't get the racist argument.
Besides, I think it will be disappointing not to see him after we saw his bling through Iron Man I & II. All that lead up would have been for nothing!

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