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Old 01-26-2012, 02:37 AM   #101
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Default Re: Ra's Al Ghul ?

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Yea I would love to see Liam back in this more than i'd like a Joker cameo... seriously.
Would you really like a Joker cameo if it's not Heath? I feel like that cheapens an already cheap moment. I don't see it having any bearing on the story even if it WAS possible.

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Old 01-26-2012, 03:32 AM   #102
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Off-topic: One of my favourite moments in BB is just after that exchange, where the lady just walks away without questioning any of it.

I thought she was in on it.

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Old 01-26-2012, 06:43 AM   #103
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Would you really like a Joker cameo if it's not Heath? I feel like that cheapens an already cheap moment. I don't see it having any bearing on the story even if it WAS possible.
Yeah, agreed. Cast the Joker in another film continuity- that's fine. But Heath is this series' Joker. TDK is his shining moment and it's always going to be there to revisit, and thus, we move ahead with TDKR.

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Old 01-26-2012, 07:21 AM   #104
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Default Re: Ra's Al Ghul ?

I wouldn't mind a mention of him towards the end or something. Maybe someone mentioning that he was one of the inmates that escaped.

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Old 01-26-2012, 08:16 AM   #105
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I wouldn't mind a mention of him towards the end or something. Maybe someone mentioning that he was one of the inmates that escaped.
Thats a set up my friend. Not a good idea for the last movie of the series.

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Old 01-26-2012, 08:40 AM   #106
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I would really like to see him not be Bane's ally- and in fact reject Bane as a perversion of the type of justice Ras wants. He rejects Bane because Bane really, deep down, wants this glory and control over Gotham, where Ras just wanted to destroy it to destroy corruption.
Personally I don't see him caring what Bane's motivations or views are as long as he does destroy Gotham. Ra's to me seems like an 'Ends justify the means' kind of person, so he wouldn't really care how it gets done. I mean he has already worked with people like Scarecrow and Falcone (indirectly) to accomplish his goals and it's easy to conclude that Ra's would hold them beneath contempt because they're the very people he wants to get rid of.

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:45 AM   #107
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Default Re: Ra's Al Ghul ?

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Would you really like a Joker cameo if it's not Heath? I feel like that cheapens an already cheap moment. I don't see it having any bearing on the story even if it WAS possible.
No I wouldnt. All I was saying really was that as much as I would love to see Joker again or even a mention or a nod, that I am much more excitied to see Liam back as Ra's. I think as an actor he just brings this je ne sais quoi - Thats all I meant.

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Old 01-26-2012, 07:53 PM   #108
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Default Re: Ra's Al Ghul ?

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Would you really like a Joker cameo if it's not Heath?
Absolutely. The Joker was a character that played a critical part in the story. Heath brought that character to amazing heights in the last movie where the spectacle resided around his performance, but the talent needed to keep that consistent is hardly required for a "cameo" in a movie where the focus has shifted to a spectacle created by two seperate characters (Bane and Catwoman). The Joker didn't die with Heath, he still exists in the universe, so acknowledgement of that in the context of the film, whether it showed us someone else wearing the makeup to imitate him for a few seconds or not, really would not bother me whatsoever... in fact it would be a lot less jarring than the transition from Katie to Maggie.

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Old 01-26-2012, 08:01 PM   #109
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Default Re: Ra's Al Ghul ?

Edit: It was.

I also love how his climax suit at the velvet green scarf and green tie tack with the subtle striped black shirt....

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Old 01-26-2012, 10:56 PM   #110
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Default Re: Ra's Al Ghul ?

Just playing devil's advocate, but what if (assuming IT'S NOT a flashback) Ra's is brought back as an ally?

Go with me.

We see in flashbacks that Ra's raised Bane alongside his daughter, Talia.

But the monster gets away from him, and he cannot control Bane as he once thought he could.

Now, as the League of Shadows believes their leader to be dead, they honor the leadership of Bane and Talia. But Bane's goals are far more radical and evil than Ra's al Ghul's ever were. Talia is blinded by her love for Bane and her hatred for her father (she hates that she was never respected as a possible successor because she was a woman.... Ra's over looked her and trained Bane and then Bruce Wayne) and she works alongside Bane (perhaps with an agenda of her own to prove her own worth to herself and her father).

So, Ra's returns to give some sort of information to Bruce and make some kind of peace and help bring Bane down and ultimately reunite with his daughter.


I think that would be an interesting twist on what we think could happen.... and isn't that just what Nolan likes to do? Take what we're expecting and turn it on its head?

-R

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:28 PM   #111
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Just playing devil's advocate, but what if (assuming IT'S NOT a flashback) Ra's is brought back as an ally?

Go with me.

We see in flashbacks that Ra's raised Bane alongside his daughter, Talia.

But the monster gets away from him, and he cannot control Bane as he once thought he could.

Now, as the League of Shadows believes their leader to be dead, they honor the leadership of Bane and Talia. But Bane's goals are far more radical and evil than Ra's al Ghul's ever were. Talia is blinded by her love for Bane and her hatred for her father (she hates that she was never respected as a possible successor because she was a woman.... Ra's over looked her and trained Bane and then Bruce Wayne) and she works alongside Bane (perhaps with an agenda of her own to prove her own worth to herself and her father).

So, Ra's returns to give some sort of information to Bruce and make some kind of peace and help bring Bane down and ultimately reunite with his daughter.


I think that would be an interesting twist on what we think could happen.... and isn't that just what Nolan likes to do? Take what we're expecting and turn it on its head?

-R
I've thought about that theory, but less from the perspective of a Bats/Ra's teamup as much as Ra's using Bane as a means to get what he wants from Batman. Maybe he's seen that Bruce really was his great champion all along, he just needs the right circumstances to finally bring Gotham city back from the brink.
keep in mind this was just a thought experiment, I'm not suggesting I think this goes down or even that I'm that sure Ra's is around during the movies present-day timeline.
But if he is, I'd like it to be (and knowing the last two films, I imagine it would be) something much more than just a turn-around-in-the-chair Bond villain reveal of "I was behind this the whole time" and instead something far more ambitious and manipulative.

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:46 PM   #112
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Default Re: Ra's Al Ghul ?

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I've thought about that theory, but less from the perspective of a Bats/Ra's teamup as much as Ra's using Bane as a means to get what he wants from Batman. Maybe he's seen that Bruce really was his great champion all along, he just needs the right circumstances to finally bring Gotham city back from the brink.
keep in mind this was just a thought experiment, I'm not suggesting I think this goes down or even that I'm that sure Ra's is around during the movies present-day timeline.
But if he is, I'd like it to be (and knowing the last two films, I imagine it would be) something much more than just a turn-around-in-the-chair Bond villain reveal of "I was behind this the whole time" and instead something far more ambitious and manipulative.
Ra's al Ghul is my favorite villain in the DCUniverse. I just love the idea of a global ecoterrorist as a Batman villain. I feel like he was done great justice in Batman Begins, but I could not be more thrilled to know that we will see MORE of him in the next film. Now, whether that will be in a flashback or current scene, it doesn't matter....more Ra's al Ghul is a great thing (especially portrayed by Liam Neeson).

If we could find out that he was behind Bane, or at least involved in Bane's training (seems incredibly likely) it would be very cool. I would also love to know that, if he is revealed to have SURVIVED the first film, to know that he has been watching the situation unfold in Gotham, and has watched Bruce's now 9-10 year career as Batman. That would just be a cool moment. Bruce and Ra's fought each other as student and teacher, now they would meet as equals and Ra's would have that respect for Bruce that he has always had for him in the comics. Man, I just love these characters and the dynamics between them.

-R

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:49 PM   #113
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All the scenes with Bale and Neeson together in Begins are pure awesome.

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:57 PM   #114
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despite our collective and unrelenting speculation... i am still hoping that there will be some unexpected twists in TDKR... and I'm sure there will be

I think I might hide from the spoiler forum!

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Old 01-27-2012, 04:51 AM   #115
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Ra's al Ghul is dead!

It will be just flashbacks with neeson.

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Old 01-27-2012, 09:25 AM   #116
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Ra's al Ghul is my favorite villain in the DCUniverse. I just love the idea of a global ecoterrorist as a Batman villain. I feel like he was done great justice in Batman Begins, but I could not be more thrilled to know that we will see MORE of him in the next film. Now, whether that will be in a flashback or current scene, it doesn't matter....more Ra's al Ghul is a great thing (especially portrayed by Liam Neeson).

If we could find out that he was behind Bane, or at least involved in Bane's training (seems incredibly likely) it would be very cool. I would also love to know that, if he is revealed to have SURVIVED the first film, to know that he has been watching the situation unfold in Gotham, and has watched Bruce's now 9-10 year career as Batman. That would just be a cool moment. Bruce and Ra's fought each other as student and teacher, now they would meet as equals and Ra's would have that respect for Bruce that he has always had for him in the comics. Man, I just love these characters and the dynamics between them.

-R
THIS! .... is what Ive been saying. Niam as an actor and particular playing Ra's is just that dang GOOD.

Scenes with Ra's & Bruce especially during the ice sword fight were just great scenens for BB. I do hope they share screen time together once again for TDKR.

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Old 01-28-2012, 04:11 AM   #117
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Absolutely. The Joker was a character that played a critical part in the story. Heath brought that character to amazing heights in the last movie where the spectacle resided around his performance, but the talent needed to keep that consistent is hardly required for a "cameo" in a movie where the focus has shifted to a spectacle created by two seperate characters (Bane and Catwoman). The Joker didn't die with Heath, he still exists in the universe, so acknowledgement of that in the context of the film, whether it showed us someone else wearing the makeup to imitate him for a few seconds or not, really would not bother me whatsoever... in fact it would be a lot less jarring than the transition from Katie to Maggie.
Fair enough, but would it not distract from the character in a much more dramatic way than the transition from Katie to Maggie? The actor that would be replaced died tragically. This role was one of his shining moments. I think it would distract the audience and take them outside the realm of the story momentarily if someone else was seen in the Joker role.

Maybe some mention of him without showing him would be more reasonable. But I think that to have another actor portray him would bring everyone's minds to something in the neighborhood of:

"That's not Heath. Oh, Heath died, how sad."

Which would distract from the story and not really be worth its weight in 35mm film.

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Old 01-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #118
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It's pretty a big departure to be a part of Gotham, from TDK to even BB's architecture in the Narrows. Nolan was reported by a local Indian paper to have gone to India in December 2010 to check out places to film and one of those areas was where the step well Chand Baori was. It's hard to believe this well inspired by Indian architecture would be below New York Ci..., excuse me, Gotham City. But I also think the existence of the hovering lobster vehicle is not realistic. Or Catwoman running around in those heels. I joke that 'epic' has replaced 'realism' in the Nolan vocabulary lately, maybe I should get with the program.
Yeah I don't think there's a chance it's in Gotham.
I think it was built in Cardington (and likely what was described as a 'Siberian' prison to the guy providing scrap metal.)
Chand Baori must be where they scouted in Jaipur 2010, the steps look closely modelled on the real place, although the stair pattern strangely gets doubled half way up.

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I've noticed too that the oblong shape of the Indian well/pit doesn't match what we see as a circular opening in the teaser trailer or the other men rappelling down in the second trailer. An Indian newspaper did report Christian Bale being carried into the well/pit and jumping out, though, so who knows.
It's not a perfect circle but it looks round enough to me.


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Old 01-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #119
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It's not a perfect circle but it looks round enough to me.

One of these photos appears that it could be round, the other oblong. It's strange. Are they the same place? They are different heights as well.


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Old 01-28-2012, 05:31 PM   #120
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The ones from a distance are the same place as the map, they're taken from high up inside the fort. ( See the bars across the windows like your link?)

Not sure about the close-up, I think it's the same place, but could have been under construction when that was taken.


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Old 01-28-2012, 11:21 PM   #121
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I don't think we heard about two CGI wells, anyway. But it's still buggin' me, the heights being different can be attributed to construction, but the shape? Some sort of optical illusion going on, where one well is a circle and the other like an egg-shape?

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Old 01-28-2012, 11:29 PM   #122
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All the scenes with Bale and Neeson together in Begins are pure awesome.
Agreed. The "will to act" scene is still one of the favorite scenes ever. Everything about that scene was amazing.

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Old 01-29-2012, 05:40 AM   #123
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How much screentime are we thinking young Ra's will have in the film? Couple of minutes?


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I don't think we heard about two CGI wells, anyway. But it's still buggin' me, the heights being different can be attributed to construction, but the shape? Some sort of optical illusion going on, where one well is a circle and the other like an egg-shape?
I'll leave that to the magic of the movies! Or it might funnel outwards a bit at the top near those two ledges.

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Old 01-29-2012, 05:56 AM   #124
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But is Ra's Al Ghul immortal?

Are his methods...supernatural?

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Old 01-29-2012, 08:31 AM   #125
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oh man if liam neeson pops up it will kick ass! He kind of needs to...bring everything together

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