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Old 01-19-2012, 08:47 PM   #1
Why Are You Crouching Spock?
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Default Did Dent really need saved?

Thinking about it, Batman saving Dent basically amounted to Dent going on a killing spree and Batman being presented as a murderer with Dent being presented as "the white knight" that brings peace and stability to Gotham.

But, If Batman had just saved Rachel and let Dent get blown up, wouldn't he have still been the "white knight"? Batman wouldn't be seen as a murderer and a hospital wouldn't get blown up.

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Old 01-19-2012, 09:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Why Are You Crouching Spock? View Post
Thinking about it, Batman saving Dent basically amounted to Dent going on a killing spree and Batman being presented as a murderer with Dent being presented as "the white knight" that brings peace and stability to Gotham.

But, If Batman had just saved Rachel and let Dent get blown up, wouldn't he have still been the "white knight"? Batman wouldn't be seen as a murderer and a hospital wouldn't get blown up.
Batman was trying to save Rachel in the first place, but Joker switched their addresses.

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Old 01-19-2012, 09:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Wait, wut?

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Old 01-19-2012, 09:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

...how did you not realize that?

Joker gives Rachel's address and Batman tells Gordon he's going there.

Batman only saved Dent because Joker lied about Rachel being the one at that address.

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Old 01-19-2012, 09:43 PM   #5
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Gordon: "Which one are you going after?"
Batman: "Rachel"

Gordon then shouts to his men "We're getting Dent. 250 fifty second street"

Joker knew Batman would go after Rachel because he had feelings for her. That's why he tricked Batman.

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Old 01-20-2012, 12:30 AM   #7
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

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Originally Posted by R3M3D1 View Post

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Old 01-20-2012, 12:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Joker knew Batman would go after Rachel because he had feelings for her. That's why he tricked Batman.
How did Joker knew that Batman had some feelings for Rachel, did Joker knew of Batman's true identity ?

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Old 01-20-2012, 01:00 AM   #9
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

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Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins View Post
How did Joker knew that Batman had some feelings for Rachel, did Joker knew of Batman's true identity ?
The way he threw himself after her.

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Old 01-20-2012, 01:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins View Post
How did Joker knew that Batman had some feelings for Rachel, did Joker knew of Batman's true identity ?
Joker saw Batman throwing himself out of a window of the tallest building in Gotham to save Rachel. Later he told Batman that's when he thought he was Dent, because of how much he cared for her.

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Old 01-20-2012, 09:42 AM   #11
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins View Post
How did Joker knew that Batman had some feelings for Rachel, did Joker knew of Batman's true identity ?
"You know for a while there I thought you really were Dent. The way you threw yourself after her"

"Does Harvey know about you and his little bunny?"

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Old 01-20-2012, 12:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

I thought the whole idea of Joker switching adresses was brilliant. Such a great twist and psychological kick for Batman

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Old 01-20-2012, 12:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Joker lied about the addresses to purposely hurt Batman, but mainly to turn Dent to his cause.

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Old 01-20-2012, 05:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

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Originally Posted by GothamAlleys View Post
I thought the whole idea of Joker switching adresses was brilliant. Such a great twist and psychological kick for Batman
Indeed. The Joker was apparently the one getting interrogated, but had the power the whole time - and then escaped. Which is totally awesome.

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Old 01-20-2012, 07:50 PM   #15
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

The Joker knew no matter who Batman would go after, it would be the wrong person.

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Old 01-30-2012, 02:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Wait or we really talking abut this 4 years later??? People, people, people...
My suggestion? Watch the movie with subtitles.. Makes it easier not to miss those subtle little details. Batman having a Duh! moment when he opened that door and saw Harvey, his heart mustve dropped. Live and learn Batman.. Live. And. Learn.

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Old 01-30-2012, 06:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

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Originally Posted by MrWayne View Post
Wait or we really talking abut this 4 years later??? People, people, people...
My suggestion? Watch the movie with subtitles.. Makes it easier not to miss those subtle little details. Batman having a Duh! moment when he opened that door and saw Harvey, his heart mustve dropped. Live and learn Batman.. Live. And. Learn.
The look on his face was pure "oh ****"
Also just the way he froze up.
Brilliant and subtle acting by Bale.

And I second the subtitle thing. That's why I'm ultimately okay with Bane's voice. Because I watch nearly every movie with subtitles at least once or twice just to get all of the dialogue 100% accurate and then on repeated viewings I'll turn them off.

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Old 01-30-2012, 08:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Me do the same thing. Its amazing the things you miss or thought you heard when subtitles are turned on lol

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Old 01-30-2012, 10:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

A applaud you, MrWayne.

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Old 01-31-2012, 04:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

besides the fact the he was going after Rachel as is been pointed out...

he had no way of foreseeing those events

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Old 01-31-2012, 01:37 PM   #21
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

Proves what a rookie Batman still was in TDK. Well that and he was still not in tune with Jokers M.O.

By the end of the film I think in many ways he has Joker figured out. He had to learn the hard way though.

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Old 02-12-2012, 07:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

even if he knew Jokers MO better (an could of guessed that he would switch the addresses)

he would still have no way of foreseeing that Dent would go on a killing spare

but either way batman wouldn't just willingly let him die

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Old 02-13-2012, 05:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

All Batman could really do is just go with whatever Joker told him and not waste time second guessing him. You can't do that with someone who is so unpredictable. If he sat there and thought over where he was going to go, then both Dent and Rachel would have died. At the very least, he saved one life, and even though those events turned Dent into a monster, it still counts for something.

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Old 02-15-2012, 12:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

For me I always loved Batman's line "It's not that simple, with the Joker it never is" on the rooftop with Gordon when they're gonna try and save the hostages. To me Batman learned one of the hardest lessons he'll ever learn just 24 hours earlier and that's how outside the box Joker does things to any "normal" hostage situation. It's like he learned first hand how difficult things are with him on the loose.

Which also always made me think that the people on the ferries had the detonators of their own boat. The civilians thinking they would kill the criminals when really they would end of taking their own lives seems like what would of happen to me. Almost like Joker is punishing them for trying to save themselves much like how he switched the addresses with Batman.

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Old 02-15-2012, 01:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: Did Dent really need saved?

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For me I always loved Batman's line "It's not that simple, with the Joker it never is" on the rooftop with Gordon when they're gonna try and save the hostages. To me Batman learned one of the hardest lessons he'll ever learn just 24 hours earlier and that's how outside the box Joker does things to any "normal" hostage situation. It's like he learned first hand how difficult things are with him on the loose.

Which also always made me think that the people on the ferries had the detonators of their own boat. The civilians thinking they would kill the criminals when really they would end of taking their own lives seems like what would of happen to me. Almost like Joker is punishing them for trying to save themselves much like how he switched the addresses with Batman.
While I agree that they would jhave probably ended up killing themselves, I don't think it'd have been joker punishing them for a specific behaviour but simply Joker making one of his usual 'jokes.'

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