Did Dent really need saved?

Why Are You Crouching Spock? · 01-19-2012, 08:47 PM

Thinking about it, Batman saving Dent basically amounted to Dent going on a killing spree and Batman being presented as a murderer with Dent being presented as "the white knight" that brings peace and stability to Gotham.

But, If Batman had just saved Rachel and let Dent get blown up, wouldn't he have still been the "white knight"? Batman wouldn't be seen as a murderer and a hospital wouldn't get blown up.

Godzilla2014 · 01-19-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why Are You Crouching Spock?

Thinking about it, Batman saving Dent basically amounted to Dent going on a killing spree and Batman being presented as a murderer with Dent being presented as "the white knight" that brings peace and stability to Gotham.

But, If Batman had just saved Rachel and let Dent get blown up, wouldn't he have still been the "white knight"? Batman wouldn't be seen as a murderer and a hospital wouldn't get blown up.

Batman was trying to save Rachel in the first place, but Joker switched their addresses.

Why Are You Crouching Spock? · 01-19-2012, 09:34 PM

Wait, wut?

CConn · 01-19-2012, 09:36 PM

...how did you not realize that?

Joker gives Rachel's address and Batman tells Gordon he's going there.

Batman only saved Dent because Joker lied about Rachel being the one at that address.

R3M3D1 · 01-19-2012, 09:43 PM

The Joker · 01-19-2012, 09:45 PM

Gordon: "Which one are you going after?"
Batman: "Rachel"

Gordon then shouts to his men "We're getting Dent. 250 fifty second street"

Joker knew Batman would go after Rachel because he had feelings for her. That's why he tricked Batman.

lordofthenerds · 01-20-2012, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R3M3D1

Bruce_Begins · 01-20-2012, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Joker

Joker knew Batman would go after Rachel because he had feelings for her. That's why he tricked Batman.

How did Joker knew that Batman had some feelings for Rachel, did Joker knew of Batman's true identity ?

lordofthenerds · 01-20-2012, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

How did Joker knew that Batman had some feelings for Rachel, did Joker knew of Batman's true identity ?

The way he threw himself after her.

El Payaso · 01-20-2012, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

How did Joker knew that Batman had some feelings for Rachel, did Joker knew of Batman's true identity ?

Joker saw Batman throwing himself out of a window of the tallest building in Gotham to save Rachel. Later he told Batman that's when he thought he was Dent, because of how much he cared for her.

The Joker · 01-20-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

How did Joker knew that Batman had some feelings for Rachel, did Joker knew of Batman's true identity ?

"You know for a while there I thought you really were Dent. The way you threw yourself after her"

"Does Harvey know about you and his little bunny?"

GothamAlleys · 01-20-2012, 12:10 PM

I thought the whole idea of Joker switching adresses was brilliant. Such a great twist and psychological kick for Batman

Rodrigo90 · 01-20-2012, 12:36 PM

Joker lied about the addresses to purposely hurt Batman, but mainly to turn Dent to his cause.

AnneFan · 01-20-2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GothamAlleys

I thought the whole idea of Joker switching adresses was brilliant. Such a great twist and psychological kick for Batman

Indeed. The Joker was apparently the one getting interrogated, but had the power the whole time - and then escaped. Which is totally awesome.

Blitzkrieg Bop · 01-20-2012, 07:50 PM

The Joker knew no matter who Batman would go after, it would be the wrong person.

MrWayne · 01-30-2012, 02:30 PM

Wait or we really talking abut this 4 years later??? People, people, people...
My suggestion? Watch the movie with subtitles.. Makes it easier not to miss those subtle little details. Batman having a Duh! moment when he opened that door and saw Harvey, his heart mustve dropped. Live and learn Batman.. Live. And. Learn.

Brain Damage · 01-30-2012, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWayne

Wait or we really talking abut this 4 years later??? People, people, people...
My suggestion? Watch the movie with subtitles.. Makes it easier not to miss those subtle little details. Batman having a Duh! moment when he opened that door and saw Harvey, his heart mustve dropped. Live and learn Batman.. Live. And. Learn.

The look on his face was pure "oh ****"
Also just the way he froze up.
Brilliant and subtle acting by Bale.

And I second the subtitle thing. That's why I'm ultimately okay with Bane's voice. Because I watch nearly every movie with subtitles at least once or twice just to get all of the dialogue 100% accurate and then on repeated viewings I'll turn them off.

MrWayne · 01-30-2012, 08:40 PM

Me do the same thing. Its amazing the things you miss or thought you heard when subtitles are turned on lol

El Payaso · 01-30-2012, 10:39 PM

A applaud you, MrWayne.

Spider-Fan83 · 01-31-2012, 04:57 AM

besides the fact the he was going after Rachel as is been pointed out...

he had no way of foreseeing those events

MrWayne · 01-31-2012, 01:37 PM

Proves what a rookie Batman still was in TDK. Well that and he was still not in tune with Jokers M.O.

By the end of the film I think in many ways he has Joker figured out. He had to learn the hard way though.

Spider-Fan83 · 02-12-2012, 07:59 PM

even if he knew Jokers MO better (an could of guessed that he would switch the addresses)

he would still have no way of foreseeing that Dent would go on a killing spare

but either way batman wouldn't just willingly let him die

Lead Cenobite · 02-13-2012, 05:54 PM

All Batman could really do is just go with whatever Joker told him and not waste time second guessing him. You can't do that with someone who is so unpredictable. If he sat there and thought over where he was going to go, then both Dent and Rachel would have died. At the very least, he saved one life, and even though those events turned Dent into a monster, it still counts for something.

Team Andino · 02-15-2012, 12:32 PM

For me I always loved Batman's line "It's not that simple, with the Joker it never is" on the rooftop with Gordon when they're gonna try and save the hostages. To me Batman learned one of the hardest lessons he'll ever learn just 24 hours earlier and that's how outside the box Joker does things to any "normal" hostage situation. It's like he learned first hand how difficult things are with him on the loose.

Which also always made me think that the people on the ferries had the detonators of their own boat. The civilians thinking they would kill the criminals when really they would end of taking their own lives seems like what would of happen to me. Almost like Joker is punishing them for trying to save themselves much like how he switched the addresses with Batman.

El Payaso · 02-15-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Andino

For me I always loved Batman's line "It's not that simple, with the Joker it never is" on the rooftop with Gordon when they're gonna try and save the hostages. To me Batman learned one of the hardest lessons he'll ever learn just 24 hours earlier and that's how outside the box Joker does things to any "normal" hostage situation. It's like he learned first hand how difficult things are with him on the loose.

Which also always made me think that the people on the ferries had the detonators of their own boat. The civilians thinking they would kill the criminals when really they would end of taking their own lives seems like what would of happen to me. Almost like Joker is punishing them for trying to save themselves much like how he switched the addresses with Batman.

While I agree that they would jhave probably ended up killing themselves, I don't think it'd have been joker punishing them for a specific behaviour but simply Joker making one of his usual 'jokes.'

01-19-2012, 08:47 PM	#1
Why Are You Crouching Spock? Banned User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 10,907	Did Dent really need saved? Thinking about it, Batman saving Dent basically amounted to Dent going on a killing spree and Batman being presented as a murderer with Dent being presented as "the white knight" that brings peace and stability to Gotham. But, If Batman had just saved Rachel and let Dent get blown up, wouldn't he have still been the "white knight"? Batman wouldn't be seen as a murderer and a hospital wouldn't get blown up.

01-19-2012, 09:34 PM	#3
Why Are You Crouching Spock? Banned User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 10,907	Re: Did Dent really need saved? Wait, wut?

01-19-2012, 09:36 PM	#4
CConn Fountainhead of culture. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters Posts: 57,435	Re: Did Dent really need saved? ...how did you not realize that? Joker gives Rachel's address and Batman tells Gordon he's going there. Batman only saved Dent because Joker lied about Rachel being the one at that address. __________________ It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.

01-19-2012, 09:43 PM	#5
R3M3D1 Side-Kick Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 337	Re: Did Dent really need saved? __________________ Heath Ledger R.I.P. Bat Pod clip with music! VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

01-19-2012, 09:45 PM	#6
The Joker Clown Prince of Crime Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Jollity Farm Posts: 33,721	Re: Did Dent really need saved? Gordon: "Which one are you going after?" Batman: "Rachel" Gordon then shouts to his men "We're getting Dent. 250 fifty second street" Joker knew Batman would go after Rachel because he had feelings for her. That's why he tricked Batman. __________________ "Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker

01-20-2012, 12:10 PM	#12
GothamAlleys Side-Kick Join Date: May 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,627	Re: Did Dent really need saved? I thought the whole idea of Joker switching adresses was brilliant. Such a great twist and psychological kick for Batman __________________ KNOW YOUR BATMAN FACTS - GOTHAM ALLEYS BLOG www.JamesCameronOnline.com

01-20-2012, 12:36 PM	#13
Rodrigo90 I ♥ Jane Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Geordie Shore Posts: 11,886	Re: Did Dent really need saved? Joker lied about the addresses to purposely hurt Batman, but mainly to turn Dent to his cause. __________________ The Best Of British Women Tournament http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=457183 Love For Jane http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=455059 "A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles " Christopher Reeve

01-20-2012, 07:50 PM	#15
Blitzkrieg Bop Butcher of New Liberty Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Under there Posts: 5,584	Re: Did Dent really need saved? The Joker knew no matter who Batman would go after, it would be the wrong person. __________________ It was you, Charlie. You was my brother. You should have looked out for me a little bit.You should have taken care of me just a little bit. You don't understand. I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum, which is what I am. Let's face it. It was you, Charlie. It was you, Charlie.

01-30-2012, 02:30 PM	#16
MrWayne Risen... Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,114	Re: Did Dent really need saved? Wait or we really talking abut this 4 years later??? People, people, people... My suggestion? Watch the movie with subtitles.. Makes it easier not to miss those subtle little details. Batman having a Duh! moment when he opened that door and saw Harvey, his heart mustve dropped. Live and learn Batman.. Live. And. Learn. __________________ "One swerve of the tongue can pierce you like a sword through the lung..."

01-30-2012, 08:40 PM	#18
MrWayne Risen... Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,114	Re: Did Dent really need saved? Me do the same thing. Its amazing the things you miss or thought you heard when subtitles are turned on lol __________________ "One swerve of the tongue can pierce you like a sword through the lung..." Last edited by MrWayne; 01-30-2012 at 08:44 PM.

01-30-2012, 10:39 PM	#19
El Payaso Banned User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rubbing your rhubarb. Posts: 15,263	Re: Did Dent really need saved? A applaud you, MrWayne.

01-31-2012, 04:57 AM	#20
Spider-Fan83 Thwip Thwip Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,191	Re: Did Dent really need saved? besides the fact the he was going after Rachel as is been pointed out... he had no way of foreseeing those events

01-31-2012, 01:37 PM	#21
MrWayne Risen... Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,114	Re: Did Dent really need saved? Proves what a rookie Batman still was in TDK. Well that and he was still not in tune with Jokers M.O. By the end of the film I think in many ways he has Joker figured out. He had to learn the hard way though. __________________ "One swerve of the tongue can pierce you like a sword through the lung..." Last edited by MrWayne; 02-14-2012 at 11:02 PM.

02-12-2012, 07:59 PM	#22
Spider-Fan83 Thwip Thwip Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,191	Re: Did Dent really need saved? even if he knew Jokers MO better (an could of guessed that he would switch the addresses) he would still have no way of foreseeing that Dent would go on a killing spare but either way batman wouldn't just willingly let him die

02-13-2012, 05:54 PM	#23
Lead Cenobite Exquisitely Empty Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: US Posts: 2,567	Re: Did Dent really need saved? All Batman could really do is just go with whatever Joker told him and not waste time second guessing him. You can't do that with someone who is so unpredictable. If he sat there and thought over where he was going to go, then both Dent and Rachel would have died. At the very least, he saved one life, and even though those events turned Dent into a monster, it still counts for something. __________________ Superman with realistic physics isn't Superman. Last edited by Lead Cenobite; 02-13-2012 at 05:59 PM.

02-15-2012, 12:32 PM	#24
Team Andino Side-Kick Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 5,740	Re: Did Dent really need saved? For me I always loved Batman's line "It's not that simple, with the Joker it never is" on the rooftop with Gordon when they're gonna try and save the hostages. To me Batman learned one of the hardest lessons he'll ever learn just 24 hours earlier and that's how outside the box Joker does things to any "normal" hostage situation. It's like he learned first hand how difficult things are with him on the loose. Which also always made me think that the people on the ferries had the detonators of their own boat. The civilians thinking they would kill the criminals when really they would end of taking their own lives seems like what would of happen to me. Almost like Joker is punishing them for trying to save themselves much like how he switched the addresses with Batman. __________________ Shamelessly promoting my random banter. Twitter: @B_Andino

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