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Old 01-26-2012, 08:59 PM   #101
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Default Re: Spidey in the Avengers?

It, however, sends the point across in a way that everyone can understand. Studios work the same way. It's hard to believe. But, they actually do.

The logic here would be the atmosphere and things SONY may be unsure about:
1) They are starting over due to horrible reception of Spider-Man 3. It made money, but general audiences seemed to hate it for the most part. That's not good news. Others are turned off that it is a reboot rather than Spider-Man 4. It's going to be an uphill battle.
2) It's up against The Dark Knight Rises practically, as well, which may hurt it a lot.
3) The Avengers seems to be gaining, if I remember correctly in anticipation polls - it's much higher than The Amazing Spider-Man. Being attached could help it.

Basically the logistics of "why?" come in mostly because of the atmosphere of where it is and when it is. If this was any other summer, I wouldn't see the point personally. But, here due to all of that they could be thinking about getting any help they can. Not saying it is going to happen - but legally it could - and with this atmosphere it is possible that the "divided Marvel" will unite in someway.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:12 PM   #102
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Default Re: Spidey in the Avengers?

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It, however, sends the point across in a way that everyone can understand. Studios work the same way. It's hard to believe. But, they actually do.

The logic here would be the atmosphere and things SONY may be unsure about:
1) They are starting over due to horrible reception of Spider-Man 3. It made money, but general audiences seemed to hate it for the most part. That's not good news. Others are turned off that it is a reboot rather than Spider-Man 4. It's going to be an uphill battle.
2) It's up against The Dark Knight Rises practically, as well, which may hurt it a lot.
3) The Avengers seems to be gaining, if I remember correctly in anticipation polls - it's much higher than The Amazing Spider-Man. Being attached could help it.

Basically the logistics of "why?" come in mostly because of the atmosphere of where it is and when it is. If this was any other summer, I wouldn't see the point personally. But, here due to all of that they could be thinking about getting any help they can. Not saying it is going to happen - but legally it could - and with this atmosphere it is possible that the "divided Marvel" will unite in someway.
Please cite me an example where an A-List franchise was whored out to another movie studio because it needed a bump in exposure .... BTW over on IMDB the Avengers is only the 7th most anticipated movie of 2012. Why would Spiderman need to hitch itself to that? If the critics like The Amazing Spiderman, that's what will bump exposure. It's one of the most recognizable names in all of CB's and CBM's so it's already going to garner tickets opening weekend alone from just that.

They agree to let another studio use one of their flagship properties and they hand over the associated brand recognition, which is what they do not want.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:21 PM   #103
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Default Re: Spidey in the Avengers?

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Please cite me an example where an A-List franchise was whored out to another movie studio because it needed a bump in exposure .... BTW over on IMDB the Avengers is only the 7th most anticipated movie of 2012. Why would Spiderman need to hitch itself to that?

They agree to let another studio use one of their flagship properties and they hand over the associated brand recognition, which is what they do not want.

Rock, people that wanna see Spidey in Avengers are gonna see ways they can justify/rationalize it happening.
I'm in your camp with believing he won't.
But the point is, none of us, without having seen the film can be 100% sure either way.
(though the better part of logic, I believe IS weighted on the "NO" side)
There's really no point in arguing.
You've stated the why's. that's all you can do.
If I were Feige/Disney, I'd address it with, "I guess you'll have to find out when the movie comes out."

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:24 PM   #104
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Rock, people that wanna see Spidey in Avengers are gonna see ways they can justify/rationalize it happening.
I'm in your camp with believing he won't.
But the point is, none of us, without having seen the film can be 100% sure either way.
(though the better part of logic, I believe IS weighted on the "NO" side)
There's really no point in arguing.
You've stated the why's. that's all you can do.
If I were Feige/Disney, I'd address it with, "I guess you'll have to find out when the movie comes out."
Seriously how many people really even saw that woman's comments outside of the internet freaks scouring for new likes us?

But if your Feige, why address it at all? It's free publicity to draw more people into your Avengers movie who are naive enough to believe Spiderman's gonna pop up in it.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:26 PM   #105
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Default Re: Spidey in the Avengers?

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Please cite me an example where an A-List franchise was whored out to another movie studio because it needed a bump in exposure .... BTW over on IMDB the Avengers is only the 7th most anticipated movie of 2012. Why would Spiderman need to hitch itself to that? If the critics like The Amazing Spiderman, that's what will bump exposure. It's one of the most recognizable names in all of CB's and CBM's so it's already going to garner tickets opening weekend alone from just that.

They agree to let another studio use one of their flagship properties and they hand over the associated brand recognition, which is what they do not want.

Oh, please. IMDB's "Most Anticipated" list is so full of **** its eyes have turned brown. They've got schlock like GI Joe, MIB III, The Dictator, The Expendables and even frickin' Battleship ranked in the top six, and that's nowhere close to what Most Anticipated lists on other sites are showing.

In any event, *even* on the IMDB list, TASM isn't even ON the list, so it's not being anticipated at all. And that *does* correspond with what other magazines/websites are reporting.

Face it: TASM has an uphill battle to win over Raimi fans, as well as fans who simply lost interest after the Spidey 3 fiasco. It's like TIH trying to gain some traction just a few short years after Ang Lee's Hulk bombed --- didn't work very well there at all.

Regardless of whether you believe Sony and MS would be willing to get into bed over merchandising rights, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why TASM could use some cross-promotion.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:29 PM   #106
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Please cite me an example where an A-List franchise was whored out to another movie studio because it needed a bump in exposure .... BTW over on IMDB the Avengers is only the 7th most anticipated movie of 2012. Why would Spiderman need to hitch itself to that? If the critics like The Amazing Spiderman, that's what will bump exposure. It's one of the most recognizable names in all of CB's and CBM's so it's already going to garner tickets opening weekend alone from just that.

They agree to let another studio use one of their flagship properties and they hand over the associated brand recognition, which is what they do not want.
This is the first time, outside of Aliens vs. Predators or Jason vs. Freddy, that characters have united AT ALL in film history. The notion that studios compete, outside of box office, as you seem to think is not correct - at all. The notion/goal is to get as much support as one can get.

I already explained why. You think Spidey's going to do amazing at box office, I simply don't and I'm a Spider-Man fan. I see it having the same difficulties as Batman Begins. Plus - even HARDER because it's more or less going up against the one KEY film of the summer. With all of that going against it PLUS Nolan's Batman? It may even risk under-performing for audiences who want to put superhero money into the one franchise that dominated all comic book franchises with it's sequel.

Brand recognition? You mean MARVEL? Because both ALREADY have that. And Sony would continue to hold onto the sole film property rights of Spider-Man, I don't seem them having anything to lose. Only to gain - potential audience from Avengers to blockade the Batman effect.


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Old 01-26-2012, 09:33 PM   #107
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Oh, please. IMDB's "Most Anticipated" list is so full of **** its eyes have turned brown. They've got schlock like GI Joe, MIB III, The Dictator, The Expendables and even frickin' Battleship ranked in the top six, and that's nowhere close to what Most Anticipated lists on other sites are showing.

In any event, *even* on the IMDB list, TASM isn't even ON the list, so it's not being anticipated at all. And that *does* correspond with what other magazines/websites are reporting.

Face it: TASM has an uphill battle to win over Raimi fans, as well as fans who simply lost interest after the Spidey 3 fiasco. It's like TIH trying to gain some traction just a few short years after Ang Lee's Hulk bombed --- didn't work very well there at all.

Regardless of whether you believe Sony and MS would be willing to get into bed over merchandising rights, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why TASM could use some cross-promotion.
Spiderman isn't a floundering franchise. It didn't get torn to shreds like GL. It also doesn't feature a rampaging giant green beast, which some find hard to relate to in their heroes.

A simple cameo is not going to create mass appeal of cross-promotion. You mean to tell me if he appears in the background people are going to write off the disappointments of which you speak? Which leads into the idea of Spiderman actually having a legitimate role in the Avengers ..... Getting two studios to agree on both the fiscal aspects (box office and production) as well as quality control over how their respective properties are featured would be a complete nightmare. How do you even begin to negotiate the money factor? There's nothing upon which to judge who deserves what and how much.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:38 PM   #108
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Spider-Man being in it would not mean he'd be part of the Avengers. Just part of the same universe. Why do so many people think this way?

Any news/publicity is good news in this case.

Spider-Man 3 raked in a lot of money because audiences were already familiar with it and trusted it. In turn, it dramatically back-fired on them. Many may not be so willing again. Anyone who thinks Spider-Man 3 did not hurt the franchise is fooling themselves. Why do you think it's so low in the polls?

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:39 PM   #109
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This is the first time, outside of Aliens vs. Predators or Jason vs. Freddy, that characters have united AT ALL in film history. The notion that studios compete, outside of box office, as you seem to think is not correct - at all. The notion/goal is to get as much support as one can get.
Huh? Aliens/Predators are owned by Fox. Jason was sold to New Line Cinema and then they did the crossover with the Freddy franchise they already had.

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I already explained why. You think Spidey's going to do amazing at box office, I simply don't and I'm a Spider-Man fan. I see it having the same difficulties as Batman Begins. Plus - even HARDER because it's more or less going up against the one KEY film of the summer. With all of that going against it PLUS Nolan's Batman? It may even risk under-performing for audiences who want to put superhero money into the one franchise that dominated all comic book franchises with it's sequel.
The movies aren't being released at the same time ace.

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Brand recognition? You mean MARVEL? Because both ALREADY have that. And Sony would continue to hold onto the sole film property rights of Spider-Man, I don't seem them having anything to lose. Only to gain - potential audience from Avengers to blockade the Batman effect.
Yes. Sony wants to be known for the A-List Spiderman franchise they spent good money on. Not share it. You see it as nothing to lose, but they don't have enough to gain to even try to attempt the logistical nightmare.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:41 PM   #110
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Spider-Man being in it would not mean he'd be part of the Avengers. Just part of the same universe. Why do so many people think this way?

Any news/publicity is good news in this case.

Spider-Man 3 raked in a lot of money because audiences were already familiar with it and trusted it. In turn, it dramatically back-fired on them. Many not be so willing again. Anyone who thinks Spider-Man 3 did not hurt the franchise is fooling themselves. Why do you think it's so low in the polls?
Yes! They trust it! It's Spiderman! He's one of the most legendary/recognizable comic superheros of all time. Nobody on the Avengers roster is even on his level in that regard.

Spiderman having 10 seconds in the same universe as the MCU wouldn't create this groundbreaking exposure to bring the Spiderman movies up to the level you say it's fallen off from.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:43 PM   #111
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1) Dude, you missed my entire point. Those are the only movies where characters came together. Yes, same company. But - only movies where characters came together. Thus, it is entirely new.

2) Um, uh really? No kidding. July 3, July 20. Economy. Go with the one that the last film disappointed. Or go with the one with the most going for it? Uh, huh? It's common sense what those people would flock to. Anyone who thinks Batman isn't going to hurt it is sadly naive.

3) A-list? Maybe in 2007. Now? It's B-list. Once again, polls. It may rise again IF it has the same impact as Batman Begins for the sequel. But, for now? It's not even on general audience's radar for the most part. Don't listen to me, go out there and view the polls from multiple sites. The news is in. Batman ranks number 1, Avengers number 2 in regards to heroes in general audience perception. Spidey sometimes doesn't even crack top ten. That shows audience reaction from SM3.

4) I'm obviously a Spidey fan, given the avatar, and I'm not foolish enough to think it'll beat Avengers this time around. Nolan made sure. The Dark Knight was a juggernaut at box office, it didn't disappoint. Some think it should have won best film. Some didn't see it in theaters - it's gonna build upon it's audience. That's the trouble.


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Old 01-26-2012, 09:46 PM   #112
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Rock, you are looking at it the wrong way. SM is not going to be in The Avengers, I think we can agree on that. However, letting both worlds co-exist in the same universe at some point in the future is totally possible. Sony is seriously struggling and are going to be looking for ways to make what few successful properties they have more successful. The most likely scenario is that we could possibly some form of SHIELD presence in an upcoming SM movie, though I doubt this one would attempt it.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:48 PM   #113
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1) Dude, you missed my entire point. Those are the only movies where characters came together. Yes, same company. But - only movies where characters came together. Thus, it is entirely new.
I didn't miss any point because you weren't making one. You replied with those examples after I asked you to cite me when at any time franchises were crossed over from two different movie studios.

Quote:
2) Um, uh really? No kidding. July 3, July 20. Economy. Go with the one that the last film disappointed. Or go with the one with the most going for it? Uh, huh? It's common sense what those people would flock to. Anyone who thinks Batman isn't going to hurt it is sadly naive.
It's summer! They'll see them both! Especially since it's Spiderman and Batman! You really think they're going to sit out 17 days just to wait to see Batman? C'mon now chief .... ..... kids are going to be flooding the theaters over the summer to see all their favorite superheroes and dragging the adults with them.

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3) A-list? Maybe in 2007. Now? It's B-list. Once again, polls. It may rise again IF it has the same impact as Batman Begins for the sequel. But, for now? It's not even on general audience's radar for the most part. Don't listen to me, go out there and view the polls from multiple sites. The news is in. Batman ranks number 1, Avengers number 2 in regards to heroes in general audience perception.
Spiderman is not a B-list franchise no matter how much confusion you say people might be having over it being a reboot. Spiderman 3 did $890 million worldwide. Again BRAND RECOGNITION.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:49 PM   #114
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Yes! They trust it! It's Spiderman! He's one of the most legendary/recognizable comic superheros of all time. Nobody on the Avengers roster is even on his level in that regard.

Spiderman having 10 seconds in the same universe as the MCU wouldn't create this groundbreaking exposure to bring the Spiderman movies up to the level you say it's fallen off from.

Yes, we get that Spidey is Marvel's biggest comic book franchise. That doesn't translate to TASM being a no-brainer, though --- reboots have always been a tough sell. Look at Hulk and Superman --- *those* are top comic book franchises, too, but the reboots of their movies didn't pan out very well.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:50 PM   #115
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Rock, you are looking at it the wrong way. SM is not going to be in The Avengers, I think we can agree on that. However, letting both worlds co-exist in the same universe at some point in the future is totally possible. Sony is seriously struggling and are going to be looking for ways to make what few successful properties they have more successful. The most likely scenario is that we could possibly some form of SHIELD presence in an upcoming SM movie, though I doubt this one would attempt it.
Please describe to me how Sony's movie studio is struggling ..... if it was so bad that they needed to whore out the property they paid money for, they would just sell it back to Marvel Films and Disney.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:53 PM   #116
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That is precisely what they did with the merchandising rights in Nov. Sold for $278M, without which they would've posted a loss.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:53 PM   #117
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1) And as I said genius - it's new. This would be the first time. There are ALWAYS first times. Studios partnering up in general? Happens a lot.

2) If Spider-Man is "so big" why is every poll showing it as bottom ladder? Get real dude. Kids are important, granted. But the end all be all? No. As said, only a fool would think Spider-Man has more going for him than the Avengers at this point. Don't listen to me - look to the polls. Every big film is practically beating it. Plus the fact that it is soon before Batman? Sony is even scared right now of that. I'm willing to bet - internationally - it's making sure to open far earlier than Batman to get those sales. Domestically? It's going to be a challenge.

3) Once again SPIDER-MAN 3. Got money from Spider-Man 2. Left many audiences feeling cheated. Left many audience members sick of the franchise. Spider-Man is a big property - Spider-Man on film at this point however is not. Unless you say these polls are wrong? Superman is one of the most popular brand names out there. Most guys have at least one Superman shirt. Hell, there's songs about the guy. Did this help Superman Returns? No.


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Old 01-26-2012, 09:54 PM   #118
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Yes, we get that Spidey is Marvel's biggest comic book franchise. That doesn't translate to TASM being a no-brainer, though --- reboots have always been a tough sell. Look at Hulk and Superman --- *those* are top comic book franchises, too, but the reboots of their movies didn't pan out very well.
If the reboot gets destroyed critically then it won't matter what 10 second cameo it makes ..... which is why Superman had a problem getting out of the first weekend.

Hulk never had any box office or critical success before TIH so there was no foundation there. Marvel also crapped the bed promoting TIH. Moreover ... not with me personally, but for the average non-comic book enthusiast the big green monster is a hard hero to relate to.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:57 PM   #119
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1) And as I said genius - it's new. This would be the first time. There are ALWAYS first times. Studios partnering up in general? Happens a lot.
Again, show me where they've partnered with these kinds of properties.

Quote:
2) If Spider-Man is "so big" why is every poll showing it as bottom ladder? Get real dude. Kids are important, granted. But the end all be all? No. As said, only a fool would think Spider-Man has more going for him than the Avengers at this point. Don't listen to me - look to the polls. Every big film is practically beating it.
TASM hasn't even started marketing yet you dope. You're speaking before the blitz has begun. The only people filling out those polls right now are people like us slaving over the internet about these films.

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3) Once again SPIDER-MAN 3. Got money from Spider-Man 2. Left many audiences feeling cheated. Left many audience members sick of the franchise. Spider-Man is a big property - Spider-Man on film at this point however is not. Unless you say these polls are wrong?
You polled them and they all told you that they felt cheated and sick of the franchise? If that were they case they never would've made it out of the first weekend. They made almost a billion dollars world-wide..... similar to what Transformers did - ON BRAND RECOGNITION.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:58 PM   #120
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Sony Pictures is struggling:

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While Sony Pictures was once again one of the few divisions to post positive numbers, with net income of $268 million, this was due to the sale of Spider-Man merchandising rights. The one-off sale netted $278 million – without which the division would have been in the red. Theatrical revenues were down on the same quarter last year, with The Smurfs being the only really big earner. The same period in 2010 saw the release of Salt, Grown Ups, Resident Evil: Afterlife, The Karate Kid and The Other Guys.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:59 PM   #121
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Even if Spidey does well critically, which general audiences won't know until week OF, we're already talking late summer. We're still talking Batman. Get real here, do you think all these polls are lying? Spidey's my third top anticipated movie this summer and I'm even going in expecting the box office not to reflect what I hope it would make due to the major dent in it from before.

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Old 01-26-2012, 10:03 PM   #122
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Sony Pictures is struggling:
What would Sony net for allowing Spiderman to appear in a Disney Marvel Avengers film? Would it justify/balance their books? If they cannot manage their film studio and they needed the money, the only thing left to do is to sell Spiderman back to Marvel .... not to sub-license it.

Alas this is not the case. Spiderman is a proven stud movie franchise for them. Why would they want to "share" the profit? It would put them in an even deeper hole if indeed they continue to be for 2012.

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Old 01-26-2012, 10:04 PM   #123
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I most people would tell you that they hype for the 2012 summer movie season is clearly on The Avengers and TDKR as the two front runners. ASM has not been talked about that much and they are not getting a Super Bowl spot to try and generate some of that buzz. I think it is pretty clearly lagging behind the other two major franchises right now.

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Old 01-26-2012, 10:06 PM   #124
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1) Once again, on these kinds of properties? It's new. In general? It's not. Do you have reading comprehension problems, seriously, I just stated this last post. Unless you think the are no "firsts" - and everything needs precedence to happen - then how do firsts come about???

2) Dude, it has had as much promotion as Avengers in general audience eyes. Batman? Only has IMAX over it - which was SELECT places. SM also has the STRONGEST marketing campaign right now of the three. I have yet to see Avengers merchandise at stores or Batman, Spider-Man merchandise is EVERYWHERE. Blitz? Outside of trailers, it's already begun - same tempo as the rest - keep up sparky. Been living under a rock?

3) Multiple sites. Not me, are you slow? Srry, it's just seems like I keep having to reiterate common sense to you.

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Old 01-26-2012, 10:07 PM   #125
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I most people would tell you that they hype for the 2012 summer movie season is clearly on The Avengers and TDKR as the two front runners. ASM has not been talked about that much and they are not getting a Super Bowl spot to try and generate some of that buzz. I think it is pretty clearly lagging behind the other two major franchises right now.
Lagging, but not whore'ishly desperate enough to lend their big name flagship property to another big name studio to realize the dreams of a grip of fanboys.

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