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Old 01-28-2012, 06:06 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
That "now" could imply that Bruce's has improved security.
Yes.

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Old 01-28-2012, 06:21 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Yeah, I get it. But no matter how much she trusts him, both of them witnessed how unsafe Bruce's penthouse was. Specially Dent who doesn't know Bruce is Batman.
Think about it, they were hosting a public venue where guests were coming and going, and they were not expecting an attack on a simple fund raiser.

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But I checked again, and the sentence is "Believe me Harvey, Bruce's penthouse is now the safest place."

That "now" could imply that Bruce's has improved security.
Most likely.

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Old 01-28-2012, 09:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Think about it, they were hosting a public venue where guests were coming and going, and they were not expecting an attack on a simple fund raiser.
I don't think Dent thought 'ah well, the other day was just an exception.' I mean, even if it was, I think Dent was not very keen of taking risks about Rachel's safety.

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Old 01-29-2012, 12:15 AM   #29
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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I don't think Dent thought 'ah well, the other day was just an exception.' I mean, even if it was, I think Dent was not very keen of taking risks about Rachel's safety.
Dent was kept safe in Bruce's penthouse even when they were ambushed by an unexpected attack during an open party venue. It stands to reason Rachel would be safe there if she went there for protection from a possible forthcoming attack.

As we already mentioned, Bruce no doubt tightened his security after the unexpected breach by Joker and his men. It's not like he can't afford the best money can buy.

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Old 01-29-2012, 07:49 AM   #30
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Think about it, they were hosting a public venue where guests were coming and going, and they were not expecting an attack on a simple fund raiser.
They did have police on guard at the party, remember when the Joker and his goons come up in the lift, they are holding Wurtz 'hostage', the cop on the take, who was obviously put on that detail, so the Joker could get in more easily.

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Originally Posted by The Joker
Dent was kept safe in Bruce's penthouse even when they were ambushed by an unexpected attack during an open party venue. It stands to reason Rachel would be safe there if she went there for protection from a possible forthcoming attack.

As we already mentioned, Bruce no doubt tightened his security after the unexpected breach by Joker and his men. It's not like he can't afford the best money can buy.
Aye, the thing is, any building is open to attack by the Joker, Bruce's home probably is the safest place, because it was the one place that repelled an attack, and of course, we also have the original meaning of Rachel's statement, that he is the one 'law enforcement official' that she can guarantee is not on the take.
Dent doesn't know he's Batman, but still, he knows he's rich, can afford security, and Rachel can trust him.

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Old 01-29-2012, 08:35 AM   #31
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Dent was kept safe in Bruce's penthouse even when they were ambushed by an unexpected attack during an open party venue. It stands to reason Rachel would be safe there if she went there for protection from a possible forthcoming attack.
I seem to remember Rachel was thrown out of a window?

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As we already mentioned, Bruce no doubt tightened his security after the unexpected breach by Joker and his men. It's not like he can't afford the best money can buy.
He might, he might not. But Dent had all reasons to ask if this is true before telling Rachel 'ok, go there.'

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Old 01-29-2012, 10:04 AM   #32
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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I seem to remember Rachel was thrown out of a window?
haha, it is quite funny now I think of it like that.

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Old 01-29-2012, 10:42 AM   #33
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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They did have police on guard at the party, remember when the Joker and his goons come up in the lift, they are holding Wurtz 'hostage', the cop on the take, who was obviously put on that detail, so the Joker could get in more easily.
They didn't have a Police guard, Gordon sent Wurtz to get Dent and get him into protective custody after Dent's DNA was found on Joker's card that was pinned to the copycat Batman's body.

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Aye, the thing is, any building is open to attack by the Joker, Bruce's home probably is the safest place, because it was the one place that repelled an attack, and of course, we also have the original meaning of Rachel's statement, that he is the one 'law enforcement official' that she can guarantee is not on the take.
Dent doesn't know he's Batman, but still, he knows he's rich, can afford security, and Rachel can trust him.
Exactly.

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I seem to remember Rachel was thrown out of a window?
A consequence of Joker infiltrating the penthouse in the first place. Just like when Joker had a knife to her face and Batman saved her from that, too.

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He might, he might not. But Dent had all reasons to ask if this is true before telling Rachel 'ok, go there.'
Your original point of all of this was Dent believing Rachel when she said Bruce's penthouse was now the safest place in Gotham. Initially he didn't. He said "Come on, Rachel, I know you're his friend but..." and she interrupted him and told him to trust her on it.

He obviously conceded because:

1. Bruce was literally the only person in town they could trust
2. He told her not to tell anyone where she's going
3. A billionaire's penthouse could have beefed up security

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Old 01-29-2012, 01:46 PM   #34
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Completely possible. But since there was that huge scene showing Joker doing whatever he wanted in Wayne's penthouse it would have been a good touch to having explained that. It came out weird that having Dent lived all that in Wayne's penthouse (or at least heard it later) he wouldn't react against this 'Bruce's penthouse = safest place in town' statement of Rachel.




Because Joker is afraid of confronting Batman...?
No, but for one its highly unlikely Joker would go back to Waynes condo looking for Dent when Joker already had lost the last confrontation, plus Rachel knows what Harvey doesn't. That Bruce is Batman, so yea, her being by Bruce in his condo would be the safest place in Gotham at that point.

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Old 01-30-2012, 12:58 AM   #35
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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A consequence of Joker infiltrating the penthouse in the first place.
Which was a consequence of it not being the safest place in town.

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Your original point of all of this was Dent believing Rachel when she said Bruce's penthouse was now the safest place in Gotham. Initially he didn't. He said "Come on, Rachel, I know you're his friend but..." and she interrupted him and told him to trust her on it.
And what could Bruce's friendship have to do. It was that Joker got there easily what I expected could have made Harvey doubt.

"Come on, Rachel, that place was easily infiltrated by Joker..."
"Trust me, Harvey, Bruce's penthouse is NOW the safest place in the city."

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He obviously conceded because:

1. Bruce was literally the only person in town they could trust
2. He told her not to tell anyone where she's going
3. A billionaire's penthouse could have beefed up security
1. Which doesn't guarrantee Rachel's safety necessarily.
2. Very good from Harvey.
3. I think I meant that when I said "That "now" could imply that Bruce's has improved security" many posts ago.



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No, but for one its highly unlikely Joker would go back to Waynes condo looking for Dent when Joker already had lost the last confrontation,
It'd be reasonable to assume that Joker wouldn't think they'd took Rachel to a place which he could previously infiltrate. Then again Joker is but someone whom you could reasonably assume things from.

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plus Rachel knows what Harvey doesn't. That Bruce is Batman, so yea, her being by Bruce in his condo would be the safest place in Gotham at that point.
That's my point: Harvey doesn't know.

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Old 01-30-2012, 01:39 AM   #36
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

[QUOTE=El Payaso;22398083]I seem to remember Rachel was thrown out of a window?

If she stayed where bruce told her to then she would have been safe, instead she didnt listen and thats why she ended up getting thrown out a window

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Old 01-30-2012, 07:50 AM   #37
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

[QUOTE=Spicy;22402519]
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Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
I seem to remember Rachel was thrown out of a window?

If she stayed where bruce told her to then she would have been safe, instead she didnt listen and thats why she ended up getting thrown out a window
Or if Bruce's penthouse had enough security to stop infiltrators. Anyways, Dent didn't know about Rachel not listening to Batman.

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Old 01-30-2012, 12:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Which was a consequence of it not being the safest place in town.
No, it was a consequence of hosting a public venue and not expecting or preparing for an attack.

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And what could Bruce's friendship have to do. It was that Joker got there easily what I expected could have made Harvey doubt.

"Come on, Rachel, that place was easily infiltrated by Joker..."
"Trust me, Harvey, Bruce's penthouse is NOW the safest place in the city."
Payaso, Dent asked "Is there someone in this town we can TRUST", not "Is there an impenetrable fortress we can hide out in?".

Rachel said Bruce's penthouse is the safest place in Gotham because out of all the places in Gotham, it was the safest. Not because Joker managed to get in when a public party was being hosted and an attack was not expected or prepared for.

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1. Which doesn't guarrantee Rachel's safety necessarily.
Rachel didn't say it was a guarantee. She said it was the safest place in the city for her to be.

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3. I think I meant that when I said "That "now" could imply that Bruce's has improved security" many posts ago.
Right, so you've no reason to be continually debating this. There's a valid reason right there.

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If she stayed where bruce told her to then she would have been safe, instead she didnt listen and thats why she ended up getting thrown out a window
That's another good point. Bruce told her to stay hidden. It work for Dent, and it could have worked for her, too.

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Old 01-30-2012, 02:22 PM   #39
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

Anyways isnt there a thread for this topic?? lol

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Old 01-30-2012, 05:36 PM   #40
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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No, it was a consequence of hosting a public venue and not expecting or preparing for an attack.
Not being prepared for an attack = not safe enough.

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Payaso, Dent asked "Is there someone in this town we can TRUST", not "Is there an impenetrable fortress we can hide out in?".

Rachel said Bruce's penthouse is the safest place in Gotham because out of all the places in Gotham, it was the safest. Not because Joker managed to get in when a public party was being hosted and an attack was not expected or prepared for.
Regardless of what Dent asked, if Rachel mentioned Bruce's penthouse then Dent's wtf was something I was expecting.

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Rachel didn't say it was a guarantee. She said it was the safest place in the city for her to be.
Which should mean her being safe. And since she wasn't the first it could certainly have been Dent's main concern.

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Right, so you've no reason to be continually debating this. There's a valid reason right there.
Since I said so posts ago, it was actually you who didn't have to debate over that point again. Why would I debate over what I myself said? I was just replying to something you'd said, like I hadn't exposed and admitted that very point myself.

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That's another good point. Bruce told her to stay hidden. It work for Dent, and it could have worked for her, too.
Absolutely. Now Dent didn't know that she disobeyed Bruce's orders.

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Old 01-30-2012, 05:43 PM   #41
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

I really don't get how we've had this long of a discussion over this.
Is it that hard to see?

"Is there anyone in this town we can trust?"
"Bruce. We can trust Bruce Wayne"

Rachel wasn't saying that Bruce's penthouse was some giant impenetrable fortress; with someone as unpredictable as The Joker, no place was physically safe. What she was saying is that Bruce is the one person in Gotham that they can absolutely trust, hence, why his penthouse is the safest place in the city.

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Old 01-30-2012, 05:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

Don't want to be troll but seriously: Don't think about plot holes in TDK. Too much suspense of disbelief for one film IMHO. Even for a comic book movie. It's just bad writing.

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Old 01-30-2012, 06:02 PM   #43
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Don't want to be troll but seriously: Don't think about plot holes in TDK. Too much suspense of disbelief for one film IMHO. Even for a comic book movie. It's just bad writing.
It was just a detail. But I myself noticed that the literal response from Rachel covered what I thought it was missing. I just thought Dent could have asked about it more directly but, again, it is actually covered by the scritp. In this case, not bad writing.

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Old 01-30-2012, 06:45 PM   #44
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Not being prepared for an attack = not safe enough.
Right so by that logic any time Batman has gotten captured or over powered that means he's not good enough to protect Gotham then?

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Regardless of what Dent asked, if Rachel mentioned Bruce's penthouse then Dent's wtf was something I was expecting.
Why? Where did he think Rachel was going to go in Gotham City that was any harder to break into? Lock herself in a bank vault? Even Joker broke into one of them

The point was to go to someone they could trust and not tell anyone where she was going. Not go and find an impenetrable fortress to hide in.

Quote:
Which should mean her being safe. And since she wasn't the first it could certainly have been Dent's main concern.
Oh for god's sake, it wasn't safe because a public party was being thrown and they had no security set up to stop anyone getting in, nor were they expecting an attack. It's a penthouse, not Fort Knox.

Why are you being so pedantic about this?

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Since I said so posts ago, it was actually you who didn't have to debate over that point again. Why would I debate over what I myself said?
I wasn't debating it, I was listing it as part of the reasons why she was going to the penthouse.

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Absolutely. Now Dent didn't know that she disobeyed Bruce's orders.
How do you know Dent didn't know? How do you know she didn't tell Harvey exactly what happened when he inevitably woke up and asked what the hell happened? Batman knocked him out and told her to stay hidden, but she had to intervene when she saw Joker threatening one of the guests with a knife.

You don't. You're just assuming.

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I really don't get how we've had this long of a discussion over this.
Is it that hard to see?

"Is there anyone in this town we can trust?"
"Bruce. We can trust Bruce Wayne"

Rachel wasn't saying that Bruce's penthouse was some giant impenetrable fortress; with someone as unpredictable as The Joker, no place was physically safe. What she was saying is that Bruce is the one person in Gotham that they can absolutely trust, hence, why his penthouse is the safest place in the city.
Exactly

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Old 01-30-2012, 08:31 PM   #45
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

This Rachel/penthouse discussion is redundant already... Anyone who still has questions about this after all these years just needs to re-watch the scene over and over again until they "get it".

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Old 01-30-2012, 08:36 PM   #46
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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Exactly
Lately I've been noticing we've had pretty much the same opinions concerning the Nolan Bat-flicks.

Glad to see it

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Old 01-30-2012, 10:24 PM   #47
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

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This Rachel/penthouse discussion is redundant already... Anyone who still has questions about this after all these years just needs to re-watch the scene over and over again until they "get it".
That's what I did. Thought that'd put an end to it.

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Old 02-03-2012, 11:00 AM   #48
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

I think it's really very simple. I think you all are looking to deep into it.

Rachel felt that Bruces place was the safest place in town, simply because she knew he was Batman. She knew that there was so much corruption in the police system in Gotham he wasn't safe there. Wasn't safe at either of their homes, where else that the place where Batman lives.

And also, going back to the whole "How did Bruce know they were coming for him.?"

Again I think we are looking for things that aren't there. I think the reason he hid Harvy is actually simple, I think he just did it simply because he knew how important Harvey was at Gotham's "White Knight" and wanted to make sure nothing happend to him. It wasn't so much he "knew" they were coming for him, as it was he wan't to make sure they wasn't. Bruce knew he could defend himself, and didn't want Harvey caught in the cross fire.

Just my thoughts, does it make sense?

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Old 02-06-2012, 07:15 AM   #49
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Default Re: Why did "Bruce" go to Commish Loeb's funeral parade?

^^ Yes, it makes some sense.

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Old 02-06-2012, 10:39 PM   #50
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I think it's really very simple. I think you all are looking to deep into it.

Rachel felt that Bruces place was the safest place in town, simply because she knew he was Batman. She knew that there was so much corruption in the police system in Gotham he wasn't safe there. Wasn't safe at either of their homes, where else that the place where Batman lives.

And also, going back to the whole "How did Bruce know they were coming for him.?"

Again I think we are looking for things that aren't there. I think the reason he hid Harvy is actually simple, I think he just did it simply because he knew how important Harvey was at Gotham's "White Knight" and wanted to make sure nothing happend to him. It wasn't so much he "knew" they were coming for him, as it was he wan't to make sure they wasn't. Bruce knew he could defend himself, and didn't want Harvey caught in the cross fire.

Just my thoughts, does it make sense?
Only you seem to have missed the moment when Bruce was dragging Harvey into the closet and he tells Rachel in his Batman voice - "They're coming for him"

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