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Old 01-27-2012, 12:44 AM   #1
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Default Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

One of the biggest complaints about Superman Returns is that it felt like a giant retread of Superman I. With Zod as the villain in Man of Steel, will this movie avoid being a retread of Superman II?

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Old 01-27-2012, 12:51 AM   #2
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

Was the Dark Knight a retread of Batman 89?

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:01 AM   #3
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Was the Dark Knight a retread of Batman 89?
No, but Dark Knight didn't come after a movie that was a retread of another movie. Batman Begins set the stage for the Dark Knight and it didn't use any previous villains.

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

From what we've seen, hell no.

I think WB learned their retread lesson.

Now if only they could learn their 'make a Wonder Woman' lesson, or make a GL movie like by all (I liked it; but too many did not) or a Flash movie or... yeah...

I'm still cringing at the prospect of a Nolan-less Batman franchise. With how they where prepared to go with that writer's strike Justice League movie... and how badly Batman has been bloodied before... *shudders*

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:21 AM   #5
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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No, but Dark Knight didn't come after a movie that was a retread of another movie. Batman Begins set the stage for the Dark Knight and it didn't use any previous villains.
I'm using Batman and The Dark Knight to illustrate the point that reusing a villain doesn't mean it will be a retread. The fact that Superman Returns was a retread is irrelevant, it's a new creative team.

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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I'm using Batman and The Dark Knight to illustrate the point that reusing a villain doesn't mean it will be a retread. The fact that Superman Returns was a retread is irrelevant, it's a new creative team.
They also had several Batman movies where they used several different villains from the comics, before returning to the Joker. Batman has left its comfort zone in the movies far more then Superman has.

Its more likely to be a retread if they use the same villain, when Superman Returns was announced and when they talked about how Lex was going to act during the film, some fans were dismissive the idea that Returns would be a retread and in the end it was.

I got my hopes up with Superman Returns and it was the most disappointing movie I ever seen, so I am being far more cynical with this film. Reusing the same villain from Superman II hasn't helped matters.

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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From what we've seen, hell no.

I think WB learned their retread lesson.

Now if only they could learn their 'make a Wonder Woman' lesson, or make a GL movie like by all (I liked it; but too many did not) or a Flash movie or... yeah...

I'm still cringing at the prospect of a Nolan-less Batman franchise. With how they where prepared to go with that writer's strike Justice League movie... and how badly Batman has been bloodied before... *shudders*
I'm looking forward to Batman after Nolan. His movies have been great, but I'd like to see unrealistic villains, yet taken seriously unlike Batman and Robin. Poison Ivy was hot but lame. I don't want to see campy Batman and Superman movies, I want them to be taken seriously. I like how they are putting Superman in the world we live in but Superman will still fly on his own volition, not by a jet pack. They should do that with Batman and put in villains like Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Man-Bat and baddies like those. I'd love to see that

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Old 01-27-2012, 01:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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They also had several Batman movies where they used several different villains from the comics, before returning to the Joker. Batman has left its comfort zone in the movies far more then Superman has.

Its more likely to be a retread if they use the same villain, when Superman Returns was announced and when they talked about how Lex was going to act during the film, some fans were dismissive the idea that Returns would be a retread and in the end it was.

I got my hopes up with Superman Returns and it was the most disappointing movie I ever seen, so I am being far more cynical with this film. Reusing the same villain from Superman II hasn't helped matters.
If Superman Returns is the most disappointing movie you've ever seen you haven't watched many movies then

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Old 01-27-2012, 02:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

I think the BIGGEST distinction that automatically separates MOS from SII right off the bat is that SII was a direct sequel to something, whereas MOS will be a ORIGIN film about Superman's beginnings.

Not to mention that SII had Lex Luther, whereas MOS supposedly doesn't..and if you count the presence of those Mo-cap guys as something, then that would mean that Zod and Faora have a group of their own to use in causing havoc and such.

I could seriously go on about this.lol

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Old 01-27-2012, 03:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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One of the biggest complaints about Superman Returns is that it felt like a giant retread of Superman I. With Zod as the villain in Man of Steel, will this movie avoid being a retread of Superman II?
It was not as there was no mention of Zod, Non and Ursa or phantom zone and STM had no Richard White or Jason, no new Krypton Island, so any similarities that it may have had were at superficial level.

So, If you can think that SR was a retread of STM, then you may think same about MOS.

I think that MOS is a completely different movie with no connection to S II.

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Old 01-27-2012, 03:49 AM   #11
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

In Superman 2 was there a fight scene on Krypton between Jor-el and Zod? Did Jor-el wear a kind of medieval looking outfit? Was there a Dr. Hamilton? Was Lois Lane strawberry blonde? Was Perry White black? Weren't Jimmy and Lex in it? Didn't Zod where a shiny disco outfit? Didn't Superman have red trunks? I don't remember Clark riding around on a bicycle with no glasses on, or wearing an apron in an Alaskan fishing village. I don't remember Lois being at one either. I don't remember him shirtless and bearded, ushering people to safety on an oil rig. Was there a young Lana and a young Pete in the film? A Colonel Hardy? A General Swanwick?

Need I go on?


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Old 01-27-2012, 04:00 AM   #12
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

This film has nothing to do with Superman II. It has the same characters (as will any piece of work which uses characters that have been around for 70 years) but that's it.

/thread

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Old 01-27-2012, 04:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

I say with Christopher Nolan having a hand in on the project it will not feel or seem like a retread.

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Old 01-27-2012, 05:53 AM   #14
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide View Post
In Superman 2 was there a fight scene on Krypton between Jor-el and Zod? Did Jor-el wear a kind of medieval looking outfit? Was there a Dr. Hamilton? Was Lois Lane strawberry blonde? Was Perry White black? Weren't Jimmy and Lex in it? Didn't Zod where a shiny disco outfit? Didn't Superman have red trunks? I don't remember Clark riding around on a bicycle with no glasses on, or wearing an apron in an Alaskan fishing village. I don't remember Lois being at one either. I don't remember him shirtless and bearded, ushering people to safety on an oil rig. Was there a young Lana and a young Pete in the film? A Colonel Hardy? A General Swanwick?

Need I go on?


You sound like you have already seen the movie.

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Old 01-27-2012, 05:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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One of the biggest complaints about Superman Returns is that it felt like a giant retread of Superman I. With Zod as the villain in Man of Steel, will this movie avoid being a retread of Superman II?
Do you mean "reworking of an old idea"? Well, it is not exactly "retread" of Lester's Superman II (or even the Donner Cut of Superman II) for one simple reason - MOS will be heavily imbued with origin story and Smallville stories, not necessarily in a linear fashion like Superman The Movie. A lot of principal photography was centred around Smallville and Krypton (Jor-El & Zod? fighting). We have yet to see/hear about major filming of Metropolis scenes involving the main characters.

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Old 01-27-2012, 06:41 AM   #16
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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You sound like you have already seen the movie.
No, just seen and heard enough to notice the long list of clear differences that make it quite obviously NOT a re tread or nostalgia trip like SR.

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Old 01-27-2012, 06:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

Bigger question is will this be a retread of Superman and Superman II, actually.

And if you can't see how someone could see The Man of Steel as a retread, you're letting your fanboyism towards this movie clout your judgement. It's all there.

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Old 01-27-2012, 07:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

There is a lot more to a movie’s story than just the main villain, who may very well be played differently this time.

In Superman II Supes gave up his powers, temporarily to get himself beat up by an old man half his size in a bar, then finds out the Fabulous trio of Zod, Non, and Ursa are ruing earths day, and he crawls back to the Fortress of Solitude to beg for his powers back, and sure enough there is a way, even though we just got told it was permanent.

After some cheesy throwing each other around, Lois is taken hostage and they end up at the FOS again, and this time the bad guys lose their powers and Non falls and dies, Lois hits Ursa, who falls and dies, and Superman kills the now powerless Zod in an act of self-righteous wrath, which was cool because even today people wonder if that may have been out of character.

Superman vs. Zod was not the whole story.

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Old 01-27-2012, 07:16 AM   #19
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Bigger question is will this be a retread of Superman and Superman II, actually.

And if you can't see how someone could see The Man of Steel as a retread, you're letting your fanboyism towards this movie clout your judgement. It's all there.
MOS is clearly a different plot to Superman 2, this is not a remake of that Zod story, it is a NEW Zod story.

In the context of comparing it to SR (which is what the OP was doing) and it's blatant repeating of lines, villain plot etc, it does not appear to be doing anything of the sort.

In fact, they have made very obvious changes visually, suggesting they don't want this film to be assosiated with past movies. Not to mention the fact that everyone involved has stated this is a REBOOT and not a REMAKE/RETREAD/SEQUEL of any kind.

But sure, In the context of it being a Superman story, and therefore exploring some of the same plot aspects as ALL Superman stories, then yeah sure it's a retread Just like every single interpretation of Superman is I guess!

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 01-27-2012, 07:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie View Post
Bigger question is will this be a retread of Superman and Superman II, actually.

And if you can't see how someone could see The Man of Steel as a retread, you're letting your fanboyism towards this movie clout your judgement. It's all there.
You may have a point if Superman The Movie was released as Donner originally conceived: Superman The Movie sans turning back the time (Earth) + screenplay for Superman II (Donner Cut). It was supposed to be one big movie, probably running close to 4 hours, much like the epic of the 50s/60s. The only similarity so far that I see is in characters (Superman, Jor-El, Lara, Zod, Faora whom Ursa was based on, the Kents, Lana, Lois, and Perry)

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Old 01-27-2012, 07:34 AM   #21
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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MOS is clearly a different plot to Superman 2, this is not a remake of that Zod story, it is a NEW Zod story.
Zod comes to Earth with his cohorts and they want to take over the planet and only Superman can stop him. Yeah, it is a NEW Zod story.

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In fact, they have made very obvious changes visually
Superman Returns was visually different from the Donner films, i.e. retro clothes, art-deco production design blended together with modern technology.

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But sure, In the context of it being a Superman story, and therefore exploring the same plot aspects as ALL Superman stories, then yeah sure it's a retread
Not ALL Superman stories feature Zod and cover the origin story? Good job. If you're following the same story-beats (including Krypton, the journey of Clark Kent to Superman, the death of Pa Kent, going to Metropolis, meeting Lois, encountering Zod, etc.), then yeah sure it's not a retread.

Nothing wrong with retreading this territory as long as its well-done. But some of you need to seriously stop nerdgasming and acting like The Man of Steel is reinventing the wheel here.

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Old 01-27-2012, 07:59 AM   #22
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

It's not reinventing the wheel here, but it's definitely not a follow-up to Donner's films and I think that's the key point Hopefulsuicide is making.

Superman Returns was clearly sold as an indirect (or direct, depending on your perception) sequel to Superman II, despite arriving 25 years later. Yet it ignored Superman III and IV. Singer himself said last year - "I want to make a romantic movie that harkens back to the Richard Donner movie that I loved so much".

Lois had Superman's son, which clearly occurred after they slept together in Superman II. You had yet another Lex Luthor real estate plot. The 'statistically speaking, it's still the safest way to travel" line. The John Williams theme. The very similar title graphics. Marlon Brando as Jor-El, again. A lead actor who was said by many to resemble Christopher Reeve. The Superman suit, while altered in terms of colour and crest size, was still fundamentally the same design. The farm looked very similar. And lots of other little nods, like Superman blowing out Lois' cigarette in both films, his signature flight around Earth and smile to the camera at the end, etc. All things which appeared in the Donner film in an identical or very close way.

From what we've seen so far of MOS - they are taking an entirely new approach. No-one from previous films has been recast. The suit is very different. The crest design is totally different. There has been no indication that any score from previous films will be used. Entirely new sets have been built. Clark's backstory looks to involve him travelling the world, which wasn't something we seen much of in any previous films. Henry Cavill does not really resemble Reeve facially at all asides from the dark hair. There looks to be much more action in this film than previous ones. The Kents appear younger than the versions used in Donner films.


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Old 01-27-2012, 08:04 AM   #23
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

Quote:
Zod comes to Earth with his cohorts and they want to take over the planet and only Superman can stop him. Yeah, it is a NEW Zod story.
That is a limitation of how superhero movie structure works, I mean in case of TDK Joker caused chaos and lawlessness in Gotham City and Batman was the only hero who could save the city (like in Batman'89). Similarly every time an alien (or Zod) invades Earth Superman will confront them.

Since they are re visiting the Superman's origins some elements will look familiar, they will add some more story to make it look better, so even if there are obvious similarities there enough differences there, just like Joker in Batman'89 was different than Joker in TDK.

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Old 01-27-2012, 08:16 AM   #24
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Zod comes to Earth with his cohorts and they want to take over the planet and only Superman can stop him. Yeah, it is a NEW Zod story.
Yes, that's all that Zod's plot is in this movie. I'm sure it won't be anything with original aspects at all. No this is nothing new, your right

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Superman Returns was visually different from the Donner films, i.e. retro clothes, art-deco production design blended together with modern technology.
Superman Returns was trying to emulate the visual style of Metropolis with it's retro clothes etc. And trying to make BR look as much like CR's CK as possible.

Yes, it had differences. But the point is, they INTENDED it to look similar, to remind you of the past.

The intention with MOS seems to be to look completely different.

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Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie View Post
Not ALL Superman stories feature Zod and cover the origin story? Good job. If you're following the same story-beats (including Krypton, the journey of Clark Kent to Superman, the death of Pa Kent, going to Metropolis, meeting Lois, encountering Zod, etc.), then yeah sure it's not a retread.
I'm not saying all Superman stories are Zod stories.

I'm saying the only context in which this is a retread, is if your referring to said story beats, which exist across the entire mythos.

Yes, it will be a re tread of the Superman story.

Just not a re tread of the Donner/Lester films specifically, which is what SR did, and what the OP was questioning.

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Nothing wrong with retreading this territory as long as its well-done. But some of you need to seriously stop nerdgasming and acting like The Man of Steel is reinventing the wheel here.
And you need to stop treating every opinion I have with condecension as though I'm an idiot poster.

Seriously, do you have some issue with me? Or am I just an easy target to wind up?

People are allowed to be fans on this fan forum are they not? Shouldn't people be allowed to act like fans without fear of being treated like their opinions are invalid because of it!

IMO People should be allowed to defend a positive outlook on this film based on the evidence we have... Which is ALL I am doing here!

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 01-27-2012, 08:24 AM   #25
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

and in conclusion...


From the evidence, MOS with be like "The Dark Knight" meets "Batman Begins", were getting the best of both worlds. 1 of the 3 villains from Superman 2, with a story never before told of Superman's personal life on the big screen. We also get the Jor-El/Zod saga finally being told to a wide audience, something that I'm sure will go much deeper then what we seen in Sups 2.



Yea, you can say I'm excited

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