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Old 01-28-2012, 09:57 AM   #76
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

I suppose, in the most basic sense, MOS could be considered a rehash. But I have no doubt there will be enough differences to separate the films. Certain elements wil be the same (as they should), but in the end, the two movies will be very different.

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Old 01-28-2012, 12:04 PM   #77
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

Filmnerjamie and showtime hit it right on the head.

The reason why fans are gonna eat this up in comparison to SR is because of the post crisis touches this film will have, and more importantly, Superman will punch someone in the face.

That wouldnt bother me so much if fans on here havent been going on and on and on for years dissing the donnerverse and yearning for something new. But the truth is, All they really want is the same old car, just with a new coat of paint, IMO.

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Old 01-28-2012, 12:34 PM   #78
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

I love and I mean, love, the first two Superman films. Probably because I was thirteen when the first one was released at the cinema.
I felt the first two acts were sweeping and epic in nature. When they got to the city it became a bit more of a comic book movie, but I absolutely loved it the nevertheless.

However even I am ready for a new interpretation of Superman. More than that, I believe we need one. As long as the character is true, we have nothing to worry about, I hope!

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Old 01-28-2012, 02:29 PM   #79
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Well we did get confirmation through fan videos that have recorded production in Chicago (aka Metropolis) that they filmed a sequence featuring a bunch of people running on the street in fear, along with several people looking up in the sky, so I wonder if that indicates something.
You are correct. I had forgotten about that.

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Old 01-28-2012, 03:46 PM   #80
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Filmnerjamie and showtime hit it right on the head.

The reason why fans are gonna eat this up in comparison to SR is because of the post crisis touches this film will have, and more importantly, Superman will punch someone in the face.
And this defines Superman, as we all know.

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That wouldnt bother me so much if fans on here havent been going on and on and on for years dissing the donnerverse and yearning for something new. But the truth is, All they really want is the same old car, just with a new coat of paint, IMO.
You're right in every word.

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Old 01-28-2012, 03:49 PM   #81
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You're right in every word.
Yes he is.

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Old 01-28-2012, 10:05 PM   #82
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Filmnerjamie and showtime hit it right on the head.

The reason why fans are gonna eat this up in comparison to SR is because of the post crisis touches this film will have, and more importantly, Superman will punch someone in the face.

That wouldnt bother me so much if fans on here havent been going on and on and on for years dissing the donnerverse and yearning for something new. But the truth is, All they really want is the same old car, just with a new coat of paint, IMO.
We'll see how much Snyder and Nolan get Superman when the movie comes out-personally I hope that they and Goyer have studied the writers who really understand the character-Maggin, Waid and Morrison. The details can be different, but if the core ideas line up with that type of understanding of what Superman is about, then MOS will be a movie with a lot to say, and a lot more to think about than just the average superhero movie. Nolan is a thoughtful guy, hopefully he understands what makes Superman so fascinating.

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Old 01-28-2012, 10:19 PM   #83
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

Personally, the things that I've always thought that made Superman 'special' when compared against other heroes are because of these qualities:

1. His innate desire towards wanting to help people in need. He's not motivated by guilt or tragedy to help others. While some heroes have always pondered the question of whether they 'should' do the right thing...for me, I think Superman's issue has been at times on 'whether' he's been doing the right thing for humanity and others.

2. He doesn't represent one country imho, and he's a hero that tackles all sorts of problems. He can go into space and deal with intergalactic tyrants, while dealing with natural disasters and domestics/every day criminal issues.

3. He's humble; always doing his best towards not letting his power get to his head.

4. No Kill Policy towards sentient beings.

5. Down to earth personality/approachable

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Old 01-28-2012, 10:25 PM   #84
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

Itll have Zod, a henchman, and a henchwoman, so in that sense it is a retread.

The excecution is probably going to be very different though and any fight scenes will be much, much better than in Superman 2.

In fact it might be as much of a retread as TDK was to Batman. Insofar as there were scenes in TDK that were callbacks to scenes in Batman.

I dont watch the 70s Superman movies religously like some of you so I dont care whether theyre using Zod again. I can understand that those of you that do would not be so enthused to see him again in a Superman movie.

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Old 01-28-2012, 10:27 PM   #85
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Was the Dark Knight a retread of Batman 89?
What he said.

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Old 01-28-2012, 11:08 PM   #86
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Personally, the things that I've always thought that made Superman 'special' when compared against other heroes are because of these qualities:

1. His innate desire towards wanting to help people in need. He's not motivated by guilt or tragedy to help others. While some heroes have always pondered the question of whether they 'should' do the right thing...for me, I think Superman's issue has been at times on 'whether' he's been doing the right thing for humanity and others.

2. He doesn't represent one country imho, and he's a hero that tackles all sorts of problems. He can go into space and deal with intergalactic tyrants, while dealing with natural disasters and domestics/every day criminal issues.

3. He's humble; always doing his best towards not letting his power get to his head.

4. No Kill Policy towards sentient beings.

5. Down to earth personality/approachable
I'm actually concerned they'll pull a BB with this one. You know the whole I don't have to kill you, but doesn't mean have to save you thing. I doubt they'll do it, but I have my reservations.

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Old 01-29-2012, 01:35 AM   #87
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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That wouldnt bother me so much if fans on here havent been going on and on and on for years dissing the donnerverse and yearning for something new. But the truth is, All they really want is the same old car, just with a new coat of paint, IMO.
Someone should make it a sig.

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Old 01-29-2012, 09:13 AM   #88
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Filmnerjamie and showtime hit it right on the head.

The reason why fans are gonna eat this up in comparison to SR is because of the post crisis touches this film will have, and more importantly, Superman will punch someone in the face.

That wouldnt bother me so much if fans on here havent been going on and on and on for years dissing the donnerverse and yearning for something new. But the truth is, All they really want is the same old car, just with a new coat of paint, IMO.

Wrong. Please don't presume what everyone criticizing the Donnerverse wants. An old car with a new coat of paint would be a remake of S:TM and S:2 with effects of today.

I want a new car, a new model but obviously by the same manufacturer. I want different characterizations for Clark Kent; no more unrealistic, mumbling idiot who draws constant attention to himself, no more CK disguise/Superman the real person nonsense, Superman IS Kal-El/Clark Kent - both the home ´´Smallville`` CK and the reporter CK - AND Superman at once. I want a villain with an actual depth and an agenda not a guy in a disco outfit throwing cheesy one-liners and making sure everyone kneels before him or a wig wearing baldy with a real estate scheme surrounded by buffoons. I want different characterizations for Jor-El, a (MUCH)better showcase of Kryptonian mythology, an entirely different Krypton (not a better looking ice planet), different roles of Kent's, a realistic world not some ´´American dream weird stylized`` world and I could on and on. That is NOT an old car with a new coat of paint. It's like I said, a new car and a new model, perhaps based on the old one but improved and with different features. And MOS is obviously NOT a retread of Superman II anymore then TDK is a retread of Batman 89 for example. hopefulsuicide and the likes already elaborated on why so I wont repeat more of the same.

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Old 01-29-2012, 09:21 AM   #89
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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a worse looking and less faithful Superman costume
I don't see how the new costume is worse looking since the old one looks like ´´Made In China`` pijamas but to each his own I guess.

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Personally, I'm still waiting for a faithful Superman movie to made, and it most likely never will happen since Superman has been lost over the last 25 years. But maybe it will happen if the lawsuits are ever settled.
Well, there is more than one way to make a good AND faithful Superman movie but obviously it wont appeal to ALL Superman fans. You seem to totally disregard the last 25 years of Superman's canon so I doubt you'll ever get to see a Superman film you want. However just because you don't think it will be fauthful doesn't mean it actually wont be. Post-crisis Superman has just as much merrit as pre-crisis if not more. But again to each his own.

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A lot of it is on Cavill, IMO. If his Superman is as genuine and as noble as Christopher Reeves without being a copy of it, then a lot of the other flaws will be easy to overlook. Captain America was a much better movie than it could have been just because of the sincerity of Chris Evans portrayal of Cap. If Cavill excels, then the movie will be that much better and the flaws that much more forgivable.
I agree on this 100%. With a character like Superman the actor portraying him bears a lot on his shoulders. No matter how good a movie can be if you have a weak Superman (like Routh for example) it will be very damaging and make any of the movie's faults a lot more apparent.

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Old 01-29-2012, 10:27 AM   #90
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

I want a vision of Superman outside the Donnerverse. Obviously with the origin and Zod there will be similar story beats to Superman I and II, but that doesn't bother me. I mean how many times as comic fans have we enjoyed the reimagining of an old story? Some people just want a clean slate and a new Superman film universe. I want a Superman film that belomgs to me. I feel like I'm on the outside looking in with the Donner films.

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Old 01-29-2012, 02:49 PM   #91
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Filmnerjamie and showtime hit it right on the head.

The reason why fans are gonna eat this up in comparison to SR is because of the post crisis touches this film will have, and more importantly, Superman will punch someone in the face.

That wouldnt bother me so much if fans on here havent been going on and on and on for years dissing the donnerverse and yearning for something new. But the truth is, All they really want is the same old car, just with a new coat of paint, IMO.
I agree but isn't that true of all comic book properties. Years from now when they think of even attempting a green lantern film again (I doubt they will) fans will be asking for the exact same movie, just done "better".

You give fans something new and they moan that they don't like it, see Superman Returns.

For me, I never grew up with the Donner film and when I watched it I found it to be a very poor film. The outline of how they crafted the story was ground breaking for its time, but the execution is a product of the 70s. Its aged poorly to me compared to the 1989 batman film, which I can still watch.

I thought they were really going to take the birthright approach and start in his teenage years. They may very well do that and these scenes will just be quick flashbacks.

Either way I have no problem admitting that I want the origin redone. I don't think you can really connect with the character all that well, especially superman where much of his drama comes from his teenage years and those are things that normal people, not comic book geeks, resonate with. Hence the success of smallville, whether people like to admit it or not.

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Old 01-29-2012, 02:54 PM   #92
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Wrong.
Nah, I doubt it.


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I agree but isn't that true of all comic book properties. Years from now when they think of even attempting a green lantern film again (I doubt they will) fans will be asking for the exact same movie, just done "better".

You give fans something new and they moan that they don't like it, see Superman Returns.

For me, I never grew up with the Donner film and when I watched it I found it to be a very poor film. The outline of how they crafted the story was ground breaking for its time, but the execution is a product of the 70s. Its aged poorly to me compared to the 1989 batman film, which I can still watch.

I thought they were really going to take the birthright approach and start in his teenage years. They may very well do that and these scenes will just be quick flashbacks.

Either way I have no problem admitting that I want the origin redone. I don't think you can really connect with the character all that well, especially superman where much of his drama comes from his teenage years and those are things that normal people, not comic book geeks, resonate with. Hence the success of smallville, whether people like to admit it or not.
See, if everyone were as honest as you, I wouldnt have to say anything.

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Old 01-29-2012, 03:04 PM   #93
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

^then we wouldnt get to hear your posts, which I do enjoy.

I wouldn't be surprised if they stuck with the origin because they had to rush to get this film out. When you have different mediums, from comics, to movies, to tv that have all done it in one way or another its the easiest way to put together a story quickly pulling the best parts from each interpretation.

How many fans didn't want to see zod, yet as a character I think he has one of the better back stories. Too many people want to see darkseid but for me that character brings nothing to the table in terms of developing superman. Which these movies are supposed to be about the hero, but they tend to get lost with the emphasis on villains.

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Old 01-29-2012, 03:13 PM   #94
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

I think we're almost in the same boat ,solidsnake, except I think I enjoy the Donner films more than you.

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Old 01-29-2012, 05:36 PM   #95
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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TDK- Harvey Dent is the White Knight that puts criminals and the mob behind bars legally.
B89- Harvey Dent is a public figure who vows to put mob boss Grissom (was it?) behind bars.

TDK-Joker gives in videos of his crimes to the news.
B89- Joker gives in a video of his crimes to the news.

TDK- Batman is framed for murders villain committed.
BR- Batman is framed for murder villain committed.

TDKR- Bruce and Selina dance at a masquerade ball.
BR- Bruce and Selina dance at a masquerade ball.


These are just a few of many. Man of Steel will retread and reuse plots, elements and events from Superman, Superman II and maybe more. It does not however mean the movie as a whole will just be a do-over. Now HS, Jamie, stop your pointless goddamn bickering.
Boom. If two different adaptations are faithful to the same source material, there's going to be some overlap of themes, which will necessitate some of the same story beats. If they're in the same medium (film) they'll have some of the same visuals! You can change the pacing, you can change the importance, but Batman looks like a bad guy, at some point, he has to be considered the bad guy from the public. That's just the way storytelling is.

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Old 01-30-2012, 03:53 AM   #96
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

Another thing that I'm hoping to see and be explored in this film, is actually something that I remember "Hopefulsuicide" having brought up awhile back.

I'd like to see Superman having to deal with the effects and consequences of not being able to save everyone, especially where he's not presented a "turn back the world to repair things" card.

Like some have said, it would really show great drama that would fit the character while highlighting the saves that Superman was able to make to show on how those he had said could have very well died like the ones that he wasn't able to.


What do you guys think?

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Old 01-30-2012, 08:24 AM   #97
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Filmnerjamie and showtime hit it right on the head.

The reason why fans are gonna eat this up in comparison to SR is because of the post crisis touches this film will have, and more importantly, Superman will punch someone in the face.

That wouldnt bother me so much if fans on here havent been going on and on and on for years dissing the donnerverse and yearning for something new. But the truth is, All they really want is the same old car, just with a new coat of paint, IMO.
YES. Thank you.

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Old 01-30-2012, 09:17 AM   #98
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

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Another thing that I'm hoping to see and be explored in this film, is actually something that I remember "Hopefulsuicide" having brought up awhile back.

I'd like to see Superman having to deal with the effects and consequences of not being able to save everyone, especially where he's not presented a "turn back the world to repair things" card.

Like some have said, it would really show great drama that would fit the character while highlighting the saves that Superman was able to make to show on how those he had said could have very well died like the ones that he wasn't able to.


What do you guys think?
Yes, I agree. But I think he should be mature enough to assume that not everybody can be saved. Even by Superman. Although how he gets to that point is probably interesting to check.

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Old 01-30-2012, 09:48 AM   #99
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

Finally had a chance to actually read every post in this thread...

The argument here is that, "Oh you haven't seen the movie, you don't know if it is a retread?" My question, "You haven't seen it, how do you know it's not then?" It works the same for both sides of the fence.

I think the problem is people take retread to mean something bad and derogatory and for some reason think they have to defend the fact it isn't, as if the movie is somehow something they created. On the other side, those using the word "retread" are trying to turn it into a derogatory word to upset others.

We can only go by what all of us know, and by all of us, I mean ALL OF US on the forum.

If you take what you know about the film, is it less like Superman 1 & 2 or more like Superman 1 & 2?

This is my opinion, what they are doing is taking Superman 1 & 2 and mixing it with some of the Abrams script and taking a heavy influence from Smallville/Jon Byrne with a little Superman For All Seasons & Birthright. You can't deny the Superman 1 & 2 influence. It's right in front of you. They are modernizing the Superman tale for a new generation. I'm not saying you're going to see that exact film (Superman 1 & 2) on screen as a flat out remake.

The term came from the retreading of a tire.

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A retread, also sometimes known as a "recap," or a "remould" is a previously worn tire which has gone through a remanufacturing process designed to extend its useful service life.
They are "recapping" and "remoulding" a previously worn superhero which has already gone through the film making process in order to extend the useful life of the character on screen for a new generation. I think that is exactly the right term, the problem is some of you are getting so sensitive on both sides of the aisle.

It's not something "new and fresh" and an "amazing new concept." If that were the case, we wouldn't be seeing an origin where Pa Kent dies, Zod and FaorUrsa invade, the military attempts to coral Zod & FaorUrsa, so on and so forth. What they are doing is covering the lost years of Superman, just like they are doing for The Amazing Spider-Man. It is what it is. Doesn't mean the movie isn't going to be good though?

We're getting caught up on words. People should be able to debate without being so sensitive, and there shouldn't be any name calling and bickering. I don't care WHO YOU ARE. If you can't be civil, I'll be very aware of it. I'm watching. If C. Lee shows up, you're all screwed. So debate. Civilly. Again, this goes for EVERYBODY.

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Old 01-30-2012, 10:15 AM   #100
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Default Re: Will this movie be a retread of Superman II?

Great post Showtime

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