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Old 04-02-2012, 06:27 PM   #251
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

The argument that "powers aren't realistic, therefore anything goes" is silly. Every movie establishes "rules" or "guidelines", whether they're a rom com or a sci-fi flick. Let's look at that famous giant robot movie trilogy, Transformers. By your logic, seeing as how it's about giant alien robots, introducing human characters who can fly or bend metal or read minds isn't a stretch, right? After all, there's no such thing as giant alien robots (that we know of).

Do you kind of see where I'm coming from by that point of view? Despite the unrealistic elements, adding a different kind of unrealistic element feels awkward and gimmicky. As someone astutely pointed out, the X-Men films have taken a more grounded approach. It's like Nolan's Batman, but with superpowers.

And again I'm going to go with what I said earlier about Sentinels being an impersonal enemy. The films are an allegory for prejudice, racism, sexism, outcasts, all personal conflicts between man. Despite the fact that sentinels are controlled by humans, they as an entity are unfeeling, unbiased enemies that offer no real progression of character. I can't see a director as smart as Vaughn throwing away some intense human conflict in favor of big robots.

If you disagree with this viewpoint that's totally fine, that's why it's called a "discussion board". But rather than just say something along the lines of "you're wrong!" please offer up some solid reasons WHY Sentinels would work in this XMFC universe, other than "they were in the comics" and "superpowers are a stretch so sentinels wouldn't be".

Re: The technology thing. As I said before, there is no way that humans would just "give up" on robots, no matter how many times they got shot down. We're a lazy species, and greedy for technology. Robots invented in the 60s wouldn't NOT appear in some shape or form in the 2000s, whether as weapons or even as like maids or butlers or something. It's too hard to explain away why they don't appear 40 years later. Can you think of any form of technology in our history that made our lives easier that we did away with completely? And I mean completely, not upgraded.


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Old 04-02-2012, 06:35 PM   #252
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

If you want to view The Last Stand In Cannon with First Class there was a sentinels In the Danger room.Personal I don't see sentinles till third film which would likly be set In
the 1970's.I think we will get an X-men vs brotherhood In film 2 and then the trilogy would conclude with a team up against Sentinels or possibly Sinster.

Plus even Vaughn himself has said he Isn't entirely sure when the first X-Men Is suspose to be take place.He mentioned sequels can take place from 1962 to 2000 or whenever the first film took place.It Is all going to come done to what Vaughn,and Bryan Singer want to do.

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Old 04-02-2012, 06:38 PM   #253
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

I'm not gonna touch the Transformers for a couple reasons; I wasn't a fan of the show/comics, the movies looked stupid, I'm not a fan of robots of that sized moving crazy fast.

I'm not using super powers as a reason that the Sentinels can work, I'm using the reasoning that it's a good/great creation from the comics that can work. They also provide a bigger threat than a human would to a mutant.
A human vs. mutant fight most likely would result in the human losing(depending on mutant's power), so they find a way to fight back instead of putting themself in danger a.k.a. Sentinels, and control them from a safe distance. Especially after a missile onslaught was halted by one mutant, even if they don't know it's one mutant for sure.
Before they'd want to risk human life on a mutant, they'd try to plan a way to face them with minimal casualties for their side, Sentinels can be those casualties the humans don't want to be.
Mutants are a threat for humans, and the humans will come up with many ways to try and find the best defense, and Sentinels fit that exact mindset for the timeframe of the movie.

You guys can try to say all you want the movies are grounded; they're not, the characters are, their environment isn't grounded at all.

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Old 04-02-2012, 06:40 PM   #254
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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And again I'm going to go with what I said earlier about Sentinels being an impersonal enemy. The films are an allegory for prejudice, racism, sexism, outcasts, all personal conflicts between man. Despite the fact that sentinels are controlled by humans, they as an entity are unfeeling, unbiased enemies that offer no real progression of character. I can't see a director as smart as Vaughn throwing away some intense human conflict in favor of big robots.
If Sentinles were in it so would Bolivar Trask, it would still show humans side of Prejudice. Creating something to destroy a race of mutants shows it at a huge extreme.

There are side charcaters (Azazel, Riptide) in FC who dont even say lines, I dont get why you think Sentinles would take front stage over actors,villains and allegories.

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Old 04-02-2012, 08:34 PM   #255
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

January Jones says they're still writing the script and doesn't know if she'll be in, but she'd love to be. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...r-x-men-306397

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Old 04-03-2012, 02:13 PM   #256
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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The argument that "powers aren't realistic, therefore anything goes" is silly. Every movie establishes "rules" or "guidelines", whether they're a rom com or a sci-fi flick. Let's look at that famous giant robot movie trilogy, Transformers. By your logic, seeing as how it's about giant alien robots, introducing human characters who can fly or bend metal or read minds isn't a stretch, right? After all, there's no such thing as giant alien robots (that we know of).

Do you kind of see where I'm coming from by that point of view? Despite the unrealistic elements, adding a different kind of unrealistic element feels awkward and gimmicky. As someone astutely pointed out, the X-Men films have taken a more grounded approach. It's like Nolan's Batman, but with superpowers.

And again I'm going to go with what I said earlier about Sentinels being an impersonal enemy. The films are an allegory for prejudice, racism, sexism, outcasts, all personal conflicts between man. Despite the fact that sentinels are controlled by humans, they as an entity are unfeeling, unbiased enemies that offer no real progression of character. I can't see a director as smart as Vaughn throwing away some intense human conflict in favor of big robots.

If you disagree with this viewpoint that's totally fine, that's why it's called a "discussion board". But rather than just say something along the lines of "you're wrong!" please offer up some solid reasons WHY Sentinels would work in this XMFC universe, other than "they were in the comics" and "superpowers are a stretch so sentinels wouldn't be".

Re: The technology thing. As I said before, there is no way that humans would just "give up" on robots, no matter how many times they got shot down. We're a lazy species, and greedy for technology. Robots invented in the 60s wouldn't NOT appear in some shape or form in the 2000s, whether as weapons or even as like maids or butlers or something. It's too hard to explain away why they don't appear 40 years later. Can you think of any form of technology in our history that made our lives easier that we did away with completely? And I mean completely, not upgraded.
i'm not saying you can just throw anything, but sentinels are plausable and would fit in.
also your argument that they just robots without any emotion and soul, yeah you are right, but that is the point. humans are defensless against mutant powers and sentinels are weapons created to the scale where they can fight and win against mutants. and that adds up to the drama because you cannot argue with a robot. and they show how much humans fear mutants that they created something that will do its job.

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Old 04-03-2012, 03:33 PM   #257
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

Can we move this interesting issue to an own topic?

I asked the mods about a new board for the sequel, and they were fine with the idea...

but until that, we could create another topic to discuss this issue, that many of us have been talking about, and let this topic for the Matthew related comments.

thoughts?

who does want to create the topic?

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Old 04-03-2012, 07:22 PM   #258
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

X-Men: First Class was incredible so hearing that the sequel has now been confirmed is probably the best film news I've read this year so far.

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Old 04-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #259
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

This thread is for general speculation for the sequel.

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Old 04-03-2012, 07:28 PM   #260
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This thread is for general speculation for the sequel.
so no new board?

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Old 04-03-2012, 07:29 PM   #261
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

We're working on getting that new forum made. And when it is created, please allow the staff to do some thread rearrangement and clean-up.

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Old 04-03-2012, 07:45 PM   #262
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

Ok, nice to know its coming.

Thanks!

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Old 04-04-2012, 11:23 AM   #263
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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i'm not saying you can just throw anything, but sentinels are plausable and would fit in.
also your argument that they just robots without any emotion and soul, yeah you are right, but that is the point. humans are defensless against mutant powers and sentinels are weapons created to the scale where they can fight and win against mutants. and that adds up to the drama because you cannot argue with a robot. and they show how much humans fear mutants that they created something that will do its job.

I usually agree with BlueSerenity on things (in fact, I think her point about introducing mutants in the Transformers series is an excellent point), but I can see Sentinels being used in the movies, but perhaps modified for the movie universe.

Just like with not giving Xavier a hover chair and having the "Phoenix" as a human-based entity, the movies can take these huge, building-sized Sentinels and modify them to something more conservative. Perhaps there's testing being done to create smaller versions of these machines; maybe the first version of Sentinels are directly remote-operated from a human command post that needs to be taken down, or maybe humans are creating suits (similar to Iron Man) to give to the military. Maybe the mutants have to step in and destroy them, which discourages the government from making these machine mutant hunters...for now.

I'm not saying that Sentinels are the best idea, but there's some potential there if it's done right.

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Old 04-04-2012, 12:08 PM   #264
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

Sentinels would be EPIC, definetly.

but someone made the point, these are the 60's. The sentinels should appear later in the franchise, not so soon.

I understand many fans want them since day one, since X1, but this franchise is set in the past, so they should wait at least for the last sequel to introduce a few sentinels, whatever their size is.

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Old 04-04-2012, 03:33 PM   #265
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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Ok, nice to know its coming.

Thanks!
I was given word by the big cheese that there hasn't been enough solid news yet to have the new forum created. But we probably won't have to wait too much longer.

Anyway, on the topic of the sequel, I've heard it will again focus on Charles and Xavier, possibly with Charles attempting to "reform" his estranged friend. And since they're not really enemies yet and need a bit if a thicker friendship history, I think it makes sense.

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Old 04-04-2012, 04:16 PM   #266
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

mmm.... lets hope we get the board soon, this month would be great

if not, at least on May, hehe

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Old 04-04-2012, 06:43 PM   #267
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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but someone made the point, these are the 60's. The sentinels should appear later in the franchise, not so soon.

I understand many fans want them since day one, since X1, but this franchise is set in the past, so they should wait at least for the last sequel to introduce a few sentinels, whatever their size is.
The past doesnt discredit them though. The 50s-60s had robotics introduced, I believe even robotic hands were around the late 60s. Unless you are tying it directly to X1 and why there were no sentinles included then, I dont see what the problem would be with them in a Sci-fi fantasy film in the 60s-70s.

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Old 04-04-2012, 06:47 PM   #268
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

Because it is no problem.

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Old 04-04-2012, 07:10 PM   #269
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

Right. And even if you want to argue the time period, you have to remember there are some mutants, a la Forge, who have unbelievable knowledge and skill in technology. It'd be easy to say whoever creates the Sentinels - a rebooted Trask or not, it need not be argued - might manipulate a tech-savvy mutant into helping them.

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Old 04-04-2012, 08:29 PM   #270
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

If the film has Xavier trying to redeem Magneto do you think they are trying to keep some contunity with The Last Stand?

As for Sentinles If they are Included It's easy to say the Trask In Last Stand wasn't Boliver Trask.But,going with some other villains besides Magneto means we may not have all cast return.Moira and at least 2 of Brotherhood(most likely Angel and Riptide) may not return.

If the Sentinels show up In sequel I have suspecion they may be cut down to human size.

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Old 04-04-2012, 08:39 PM   #271
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

I'm not sure they'd create a film just to work up to a big falling out (First Class) then have the two be happy friends together at the end of the sequel. It will have made the climax of the recent installment pointless. I'm guessing it'd be more of a situation where Charles feels partially responsible and seeks Erik in an attempt to reform him. But I think it will end with a Team Magneto vs Team Xavier battle, solidifying each other as enemies. That's what these prequels are about; the friendship and falling out of these two iconic mutants. They're not going to re-craft that friendship to maintain continuity with The Last Stand. Besides, Charles is already paralyzed. And in Singer's world, unparalyzing him won't happen.

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Old 04-04-2012, 10:11 PM   #272
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

Believe me I am not advocating that.My oporion Is the ending of first Class would be pointless If they tried to get them back to working together.Fox In the mutant tractor blu-ray extra tries to explain away the walking problem by saying It was Xavier creating a mental projection of himself from what I read.Now I can buy that explantion for the
Wolverine appearance but It's harder for the Last Stand opening scene.Last year Vaughn mentioned possabilty of bringing Patrick Stewert and Ian Mckellan back for flashforward sequence.Imagne after climatix battle showing Xavier and Magneto In future.

Xavier regaining abilty to walk In comics was always becaus eof scifi Ailen plot threads.None of that will work In more relastic world the films operate on.Besides X-Men work best when the fantastic stuff Is keep to mutants and some of technolgy like the danger room,Cerebro,and Sentinles.

With Xavier It will be Intresting to see If he starts to lose his hair and If they find way for him to take part In climix battle.Vaughn might try to resurrect the mental battle Idea between Xavier and Emma Frost.

Xavie rbecoming unparalyxed Is about as likely as Beast turning into last Stand Beast.Not going to happen.

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Old 04-05-2012, 12:26 AM   #273
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

I don't even know why anyone is referring to Last Stand or Wolverine, they're clearly being ignored.

Regarding the Wolvie cameo, as far as I can tell/read, Wolverine 2 is ignoring WO as well.

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Old 04-05-2012, 01:26 AM   #274
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

From past debates on this board you know were my thoughts are on this subject.However Fox On bluray special features did try to explan away the Xavier walking problem as well as Insting Silverfox's sister was actully Emma Frost using telepathic powers to have everyone else see her as teenager,and well as saying Victor Creed from Wolverine does become Sabretooth In first X-Men.

The Wolverine Is doing all It can to distance Itself from Wolverine.If the deadpool film Is actully made(and that Is a major big If) for It to be called part of X-Men film series you have to Ignore Wolverine(Inless Fox tries to recon and say weapon XI wasn't really Deadpool.Deadpool was only at beging of film)

Matthew vaughn clealry blurs line between Prequel and reboot.But It's clear the only past X-men films that First Class In prequel way Connect to are Bryan Singer's films.Makes sense since Singer Is producer and with Superman returns he did similar thing with Superman III and IV that Is being done now with The Last Stand and Wolverine.

Now If we are lucky and Avengers Is big smash maybe Fox will give Vaughn more money for action Sequences.Imagne a X-Men VS Brotherhood battle In streets of new York or
a Mutant VS Sentinles battle.Vaughn proved In firsst Class he can do exciting action and actully tell a good cohent story that people like.

I am still of the school of X2 being the best and maybe the sequel can be the X2 of this trilogy.

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Old 04-05-2012, 02:31 AM   #275
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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From past debates on this board you know were my thoughts are on this subject.However Fox On bluray special features did try to explan away the Xavier walking problem as well as Insting Silverfox's sister was actully Emma Frost using telepathic powers to have everyone else see her as teenager,and well as saying Victor Creed from Wolverine does become Sabretooth In first X-Men.
Even the most uncreative of people could come up with better explanations than that. The explanation is that those aspects were completely ignored. There's no reason for them to create mental illusions in such scenarios.

Erik: Charles, are you really going in on that?
Charles: Well, I sort of can't walk.
Erik: Whatever, but cast an elaborate illusion to everyone who sees you so you look like you can walk.
Charles: Um okay?
Jean's Mom (tripping on a large, unseen object): What the hell was that.
Illusion Charles (on couch): Ouch! I mean, whatever could be that invisible thing over there?

- After leaving Jean's house -

Charles: I am never doing that again.
Erik: Well, I can't be seen with you if you continue to flaunt your wheel-ridden self!
Charles: Dude, it's your fault I'm paralyzed.
Erik: I DON'T CARE! THIS IS THE LAST STRAW! WE ARE NOW MORTAL ENEMIES!


Silverfox: My dear golden-aged sister, if you should ever be taken prisoner so humans can use your ability to create a mutant chimera, you should create a mental illusion to make you look like you're seventeen.
Frost: Umm, that was a frighteningly-specific hypothetical...
Silverfox: You never know!
Frost: So why do I have to knock fifty years off myself in the illusion cover?
Silverfox: Mutant captors go much easier on younger women.
Frost: Yes, that makes sense...? Except I succeeded in matching my power to the most powerful telepath on earth - shouldn't I be able to stop them?
Silverfox: Well, what if they're all wearing Magneto's helmet?
Frost: Yes, that is my kryptonite. Okay, mental illusion it is!



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