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Old 04-08-2012, 01:44 AM   #326
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid View Post
I'd go for one guy one girl to the X-Men roster.

Chamber and (real)Psylocke

Both are visually interesting


Chamber would be cool, his power would be extremely similar to Havok though. Betsy def needs some screen time soon in an X film.

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Old 04-08-2012, 05:54 AM   #327
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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They gotta bring in The Juggernaut.

Its one of Vaughn's favorite characters too.
It was Vaughn who cast Vinnie Jones as Juggernaught in X-Men3 , so if you are thinking 'Oh, finally we can have someone do justice to the character rather than what Ratner gave us.', well, you would have gotten the same crap from Vaughn's X-Men3, Vinnie Jones is his mate in real life.
Even with the limited lines he had, he couldn't deliver them very well, and what we got was the best, there are some real hummers in the deleted scenes, most notably cut from outside Jean Grey's house.

eh, maybe he will see that he made a bad decision there, and cast an actual actor in the role for a prequel.

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Old 04-08-2012, 06:40 AM   #328
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

1. Debatable. There are entirely too many variables for you to make that call.

2. What does that have to do with anything? How does Vaughn's casting in X-Men 3 negate his potential ability to do the character justice in a First Class sequel? Different movies. Different situations.

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Old 04-08-2012, 06:45 AM   #329
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

We've seen Juggernaut though. He's just a brute with a Magneto-esque psi-blocking helmet on. And, like Blob, he's difficult to depict in a live-action setting because of his extreme physique.

If Vaughn decides to include him, then so be it. But he's not on my own wishlist.

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Old 04-08-2012, 06:46 AM   #330
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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It was Vaughn who cast Vinnie Jones as Juggernaught in X-Men3 , so if you are thinking 'Oh, finally we can have someone do justice to the character rather than what Ratner gave us.', well, you would have gotten the same crap from Vaughn's X-Men3, Vinnie Jones is his mate in real life.
Even with the limited lines he had, he couldn't deliver them very well, and what we got was the best, there are some real hummers in the deleted scenes, most notably cut from outside Jean Grey's house.

eh, maybe he will see that he made a bad decision there, and cast an actual actor in the role for a prequel.
See, I didn't mind Jones in the role nor how the character was portrayed in the film. I love the character from the books, but when you translate him to film its tricky how you go about it.

For starters, back in '05 when X3 was in production, we didn't have this kind of CG perfected yet.



Now you can do a CG Juggernaut & have him look enormous yet real.

As far as the performance goes, because there was really no time to address the connection between Marko and Xavier in X3, Jones' dialogue basically consisted of quick one-liners that I thought he delivered well.

I also think it was smart to make Marko British since he grew up with Xavier & Xavier grew up in the UK.

Because the characters are now 30 years younger than they were in the OT, you can do a Captain America effect with The Juggernaut. You introduce Xavier's step-brother Cain as a young soldier who is maybe fighting in 'Nam when he comes across the cave & the ruby. So you only use the real actor for a bit until the transformation occurs. Then you go CG & hide his face under the helmet. Later on, you lose the helmet during a fight with the X-Men and do your best CG/Real match-up.

In summary, Ratner did the best he could with The Juggernaut in '05, now there's tons of room for improvement as showcased in the photo above.

I myself would love to see a Hulk-sized Juggernaut under the control of Fassbender's Magneto fighting Xavier's Second class.

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Old 04-08-2012, 06:57 AM   #331
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid View Post
I'd go for one guy one girl to the X-Men roster.

Chamber and (real)Psylocke

Both are visually interesting


They're definitely interesting. But also a challenge.

Chamber blasts energy from his chest, just like Havok. And his later sonic powers are too much like Banshee.

And regarding Psylocke, we already have psychics in the form of Xavier and Emma. Seems like a bit of psi-overdose to include another one, even if she has 'psi-blades' (which are difficult to explain - mind power that comes through her hands like knives???!!!)

I'd also like to make an appeal for the filmmakers to make Havok's blasts blue-white next time, rather than red. They can say he has learned to intensify the emission so it goes from red-hot (infra-red/heat) to blue-white (visible light, ultraviolet and X-ray); maybe he'll learn to push it up the spectrum with the help of Polaris (who senses the electromagnetic spectrum)

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Old 04-08-2012, 07:14 AM   #332
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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See, I didn't mind Jones in the role nor how the character was portrayed in the film. I love the character from the books, but when you translate him to film its tricky how you go about it.

For starters, back in '05 when X3 was in production, we didn't have this kind of CG perfected yet.



Now you can do a CG Juggernaut & have him look enormous yet real.

As far as the performance goes, because there was really no time to address the connection between Marko and Xavier in X3, Jones' dialogue basically consisted of quick one-liners that I thought he delivered well.

I also think it was smart to make Marko British since he grew up with Xavier & Xavier grew up in the UK.

Because the characters are now 30 years younger than they were in the OT, you can do a Captain America effect with The Juggernaut. You introduce Xavier's step-brother Cain as a young soldier who is maybe fighting in 'Nam when he comes across the cave & the ruby. So you only use the real actor for a bit until the transformation occurs. Then you go CG & hide his face under the helmet. Later on, you lose the helmet during a fight with the X-Men and do your best CG/Real match-up.

In summary, Ratner did the best he could with The Juggernaut in '05, now there's tons of room for improvement as showcased in the photo above.

I myself would love to see a Hulk-sized Juggernaut under the control of Fassbender's Magneto fighting Xavier's Second class.
That's a convincing argument. I liked Vinnie's juggernaut in X3 - apart from that utterly dreadful 'I'm the juggernaut *****' line.

If they used the ruby origin tale, they'd have to address it somehow...

"Is he a mutant, Charles."

"No, he wasn't born that way. But he was mutated - by something, some extraordinary phenomenon he encountered in the jungles of Vietnam."

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Old 04-08-2012, 07:57 AM   #333
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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Originally Posted by Alexei Belyakov View Post
See, I didn't mind Jones in the role nor how the character was portrayed in the film. I love the character from the books, but when you translate him to film its tricky how you go about it.
I didn't mind his lines and delivery that made it into the film per se, but they definitely limited themselves to what could be done with the character when they cast Vinnie Jones. If they had cast a good character actor, someone who can actually act, then we probabloy would've got a more interesting charcter.
As i said, they had him goading Wolverine with some more dialogue outside Jean Grey's house, but the delivery was so bad, they cut the lines. I assume it was the delivery and acting, because they were delivered far less successfully than his one-liners.
So, going by that, if they had wanted to give the character a bit more to go on, rather than just one liners, then they would have been hamstrung by that casting.

See, over in the UK Vinnie Jones had a rep as a sportsman when he played football(US translation: soccer, haha), and that was along the lines of Juggernaught, he would plough right through folk, (Jonathan Ross once described him as a 'human scud missile'*)so i guess Vaughnn thought it would be funny, and apt, to cast him in that role, but he can't act, so it was a bad casting imo.

*this piece of footage can actually be seen on a Nirvana live compilation, as Ross says it right before he introcuces Nirvana performing 'territorial pissings' on his show, just pointing this out for the fun of it.


Quote:
For starters, back in '05 when X3 was in production, we didn't have this kind of CG perfected yet.



Now you can do a CG Juggernaut & have him look enormous yet real.
eh, I'd say the CG in Ang Hulk was on a par with what we have seen in the Avengers trailers, if an X3 had been made with proper preparation time, they could've done a CG enhanced Juggernaught, as you are suggesting below.

Quote:
As far as the performance goes, because there was really no time to address the connection between Marko and Xavier in X3, Jones' dialogue basically consisted of quick one-liners that I thought he delivered well.

I also think it was smart to make Marko British since he grew up with Xavier & Xavier grew up in the UK.
But Jones wouldn't have been capable of that kind of performance, if they had went that way.

Quote:
Because the characters are now 30 years younger than they were in the OT, you can do a Captain America effect with The Juggernaut. You introduce Xavier's step-brother Cain as a young soldier who is maybe fighting in 'Nam when he comes across the cave & the ruby. So you only use the real actor for a bit until the transformation occurs. Then you go CG & hide his face under the helmet. Later on, you lose the helmet during a fight with the X-Men and do your best CG/Real match-up.

In summary, Ratner did the best he could with The Juggernaut in '05, now there's tons of room for improvement as showcased in the photo above.

I myself would love to see a Hulk-sized Juggernaut under the control of Fassbender's Magneto fighting Xavier's Second class.
Aye, it would be good to see a CG enhanced Juggernaught at some point, I don't know about doing all the back story from the books though. I think they should just keep him as a mutant, and forego the Xavier connection, if they come up with an interesting plotline where that serves the story and doesn't come across as wonky, sure, of course, but it could get over-complicated. You have to forget about any continuity to X3 if they go with the Xavier family connection.


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Old 04-08-2012, 08:02 AM   #334
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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1. Debatable. There are entirely too many variables for you to make that call.
Nope, the one important non-variable is that Vinnie Jones can't act. Go and watch the expanded/deleted scene of the fight at Jean Grey's house, there they gave VJ some actual dialogue, that went beyond a silly one-liner, and he delivered it terribly. The character would have remained a special effect/one liner cipher in Vaughn's X3.


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2. What does that have to do with anything? How does Vaughn's casting in X-Men 3 negate his potential ability to do the character justice in a First Class sequel? Different movies. Different situations.
I was just pointing out that people shouldn't think, 'Ratner messed up Juggernaught, so Vaughn will get the character right.', as Vaughnn cast him for X3, and it would have been the same deal under his direction, due to VJ's limitations.

and, I did already say in that post, that Vaughn could of course do the character better, if he cast an actual actor in the role this time.

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Old 04-08-2012, 03:37 PM   #335
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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eh, I'd say the CG in Ang Hulk was on a par with what we have seen in the Avengers trailers, if an X3 had been made with proper preparation time, they could've done a CG enhanced Juggernaught, as you are suggesting below.
really


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Old 04-08-2012, 04:01 PM   #336
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

The worst thing about Ang Lee's cgi Hulk were the pants, the body looks just fine for the time frame that Hulk was made.

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Old 04-08-2012, 04:04 PM   #337
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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really
^ Aye, really, or else I wouldn't have said so, haven't you got a better argument that than if you feel so strongly about it?
I do prefer the way they have designed the Hulk in the avengers, but as far as those comparisons pics go, the one in the Ang Lee picture looks more solid as an entity, it looks like you could reach out and touch it, it looks more 3 dimensional than the Avengers still.
The thing about it is, the ang Lee hulk looks better in some shots from the movie than others, like, when we get the close up shot of him with Nick Notle, and Nolte is cradling his face, that looks about as real as the Hulk is ever gonna get onscreen in our lifetime, ie he looks damn real.

I'd say it will be the same with the Avengers, he'll look better in some shot smore than others, it's just the nature of these kinds of things, depends on the type of shot, and how much work they put into it. They can end up putting more work into shots they deem more important to the film.

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Old 04-08-2012, 04:05 PM   #338
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^that's actually the most realistic sequence for Ang's Hulk. It tops any daytime shot from TIH.

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Old 04-08-2012, 04:15 PM   #339
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

Aye, even apart from the fact they used a cheaper CG company, they went overboard trying to make the Hulk look scary in TIH.
His body looks like it was wrapped in metal wires and fit to bursting, looked painful.
His hair and face looked good design wise though, apart from that first daytime shot of him roaring, which was not a good reveal of the full on hulk, probably the worst shot in the film, just looked like a drawing.

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Old 04-08-2012, 05:21 PM   #340
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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really
Yes, really.. outside of the pants, of course.

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Old 04-08-2012, 09:09 PM   #341
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Yes, really.. outside of the pants, of course.
agree to disagree ang lee hulk looked like complete crap in every shape and form

pants just made it worse

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Old 04-09-2012, 12:25 AM   #342
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

If you say so.

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Old 04-09-2012, 12:35 AM   #343
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

Nah, he's just flat out wrong.

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Old 04-09-2012, 12:39 AM   #344
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

Luckily this thread's about X-Men. But yeah, I wouldn't mind a rebooted Juggernaut. Or even a really huge one. But the ruby storyline would be muddled and confusing in a film. Just make him a mutant who was a "late bloomer" with his mutation. They don't have to go into it, but Cain, older than Charles, could have been telepathically manipulated several times when they were kids. This could spawn a decent need for vengeance after the power-hungry Cain, in his very late teens/early twenties, receives amazing power. He and Raven would actually have something in common (aside from being Charles' siblings) - they both would feel as if they were manipulated by Charles. It might make for an interesting dynamic.

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Old 04-09-2012, 01:14 AM   #345
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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That's a convincing argument. I liked Vinnie's juggernaut in X3 - apart from that utterly dreadful 'I'm the juggernaut *****' line.

If they used the ruby origin tale, they'd have to address it somehow...

"Is he a mutant, Charles."

"No, he wasn't born that way. But he was mutated - by something, some extraordinary phenomenon he encountered in the jungles of Vietnam."
I like that approach

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Aye, it would be good to see a CG enhanced Juggernaught at some point, I don't know about doing all the back story from the books though. I think they should just keep him as a mutant, and forego the Xavier connection, if they come up with an interesting plotline where that serves the story and doesn't come across as wonky, sure, of course, but it could get over-complicated. You have to forget about any continuity to X3 if they go with the Xavier family connection.
I really think the stuff with the ruby would be pretty cool in a film. Look at how cool the whole introduction of Thor's world in the MCU films ended up being. I think with the proper writing, it can work wonders for the character.

The scene where he transforms would be pretty impacting too.

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I wouldn't mind a rebooted Juggernaut. Or even a really huge one. But the ruby storyline would be muddled and confusing in a film. Just make him a mutant who was a "late bloomer" with his mutation. They don't have to go into it, but Cain, older than Charles, could have been telepathically manipulated several times when they were kids. This could spawn a decent need for vengeance after the power-hungry Cain, in his very late teens/early twenties, receives amazing power. He and Raven would actually have something in common (aside from being Charles' siblings) - they both would feel as if they were manipulated by Charles. It might make for an interesting dynamic.
I don't think they should make him a mutant.

One of the best things about Marko as a character is his disdain for mutants. He considers himself superior because his powers are cosmic. That alone is a great representation of who he is as a man (or monster).

He grew up hating Charles because of his mutation (along with Brady Bunch issues).

I say introduce the Ruby and its backstory, show us the metamorphosis & make him the Hulk of the film, except unlike the Hulk in Avengers, he's a villain.

I think it could work very well.

Magneto & Xavier talk after a major battle between the X-Men and the Brotherhood...

Xavier: "I see you've met my brother, Erik."
Magneto: "He's not like us, you know."
Xavier: "What do you mean?"
Magneto: "He fights with my Brotherhood not for the cause, but rather to hurt you."
Xavier: "He is a monster, Erik."
Magneto: "I know. He's exactly what I've been looking for."

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Old 04-09-2012, 01:50 AM   #346
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

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He and Raven would actually have something in common (aside from being Charles' siblings) - they both would feel as if they were manipulated by Charles. It might make for an interesting dynamic.
Charles never manipulated Raven. If he had, she would have stayed with him at the school instead of leaving.

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Old 04-09-2012, 02:23 AM   #347
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

I think there's enough drama potential between the existing characters as it is, without introducing a brand new sibling character that was never mentioned in First Class. A brother suddenly popping up from nowhere just seems a tad too, I don't know, soap opera-ish.

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Old 04-09-2012, 08:28 AM   #348
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel - Speculation?

Aye, probably better just to have him as a regular henchman, I'd suggest Jason Statham for the younger Juggernaught, but I'd rather see him play the Absorbing Man in a future Thor or Avengers movie.

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Old 04-09-2012, 09:09 AM   #349
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Charles never manipulated Raven. If he had, she would have stayed with him at the school instead of leaving.
What Charles has done and what Raven feels are two different things.

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Old 04-09-2012, 12:44 PM   #350
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What Charles has done and what Raven feels are two different things.
Perhaps so, but I'm going to side with Loganbabe on this one. At worst, Charles acted like a big brother to Raven--a little over-protective, a tid bossy and thinking he knows best for her. There was nothing manipulative about that--just typical sibling stuff.

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