"The Spectacular Spider-Man" Appreciation Thread (possible spoilers)

[Spidey_62]

Originally Posted by zeptron

It still pisses me off that Roderick Kingsley finally makes an animated appearance and the show gets canned before he becomes Hobgoblin.

I just got the new trade Marvel re-released of Hobgoblin Lives, and damned if we didn't see Daniel Kingsley in that episode as well. They had to be already prepping up for the Hobgoblin's entrance in season 3 by planting a seed like that.

If only we could have gotten to see the Hobgoblin. He is one of my favorite villains and the crew would have done the character justice no doubt. So many missed opportunities. In a perfect world the show would have went on the way Greg Weisman envisioned.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Originally Posted by Gale

I liked how we see Harry's mom because it adds another layer to Harry's development. I liked that Black Cat' father was Uncle Ben's killer because it would have added another layer to the Cat and Spidey's relationship when the time came for them to interact out of the suits.

Agreed. I especially liked how that little twist with Black Cat and Spidey prevents their relationship to be an imitation of Batman and Catwoman's relationship.

I also liked how the school crowd was dealt with. Flash's development as a non-friend of Pete's was good growth and Pete's messing of the order of things was better than the stereotypical popular vs. unpopular. The fact that Peter and his friends are more spread out, interacting with others, kind of gets rid of the intimacy of the origin three (Pete, Harry, & Gwen) and even makes for a sort of loneliness on his part.

Again, agreed. After the first few episodes, we never really see the same hierarchy of geeks vs. jocks that was set up the first couple of episode, and it gets very blurred in. You could almost consider many of the popular kids to be Peter's friends by the end of the show, in a way.

In season 3, I feel like the fact that Peter and MJ were both love-relationshipless for one reason or another would mean that they would have gotten closer. I did wonder if this MJ knew Peter's secret and it would have been fun for that to be hinted at, but never made clear until of course they got together.

Some of MJ's dialogue and actions seem to indicate that. The fact that she was VERY understanding of Peter leaving her at the dance in "Catalysts". How she quickly defended him from Eddie, nevermind that she just met both of the guys. And how she didn't buy how Peter "missed all the action" when he fought Electro and Vulture in "Reinforcement".

Sorry for the long post guys, but I just got really soaked in the nostalgia of it all. Miss this series.

No worries. And welcome to the forums!

[mehrabix]

The Spectacular Spider-Man is the best superhero animated series ever

Thank you for the memories

You will be forever missed

May eternal damnation befall the idiots who canceled you!

[Spidey220987]

Originally Posted by Pep

I created that group, and I'm not a fan of the constant berating either.

Fair play to you. Really was a great campaign group.
Alas, our pleas were fallen on deaf ears, as the saying goes lol.
Like I said, I'm still with the group as they sometimes post new tidbits of information about other Marvel shows, and some worthwhile Spider-Man discussion can be had.
It's just the constant berating that's annoying.
I logged in the other day, and there's like 17 new messages from the group.
I click on it, and there's nothing but hate, especially the picture of Paul Dini with the party hat

[zeptron]

Originally Posted by Pep

The funny thing is that the censorship wasn't that much different in TSSM compared to the 90s cartoon, but they made it less noticeable. For instance, there were still many restrictions on punching in Spectacular, but the writers and storyboarders made sure that Spidey was kept out of situations where he should logically be throwing punches. The action in the 90s cartoon usually played out in a way that made it ridiculously obvious that punches were not allowed, and that's why viewers have always brought so much attention to it.

Well Spectacular also had things like Harry's drug addiction, Aunt May having a heart attack, Black Cat making about a minium of five sexual innuendos in each of her appearances, dialogue such as "Impale his heart with your horn" and Spider-man doesn't get hit just once and is either knocked out or too weak to carry on.

[Pep]

Yeah, Weisman is definitely a master of compromise and finding loopholes to make things work with network censors.

Originally Posted by Spidey220987

I logged in the other day, and there's like 17 new messages from the group.
I click on it, and there's nothing but hate, especially the picture of Paul Dini with the party hat

I'll do a bit more of a thorough purge in a few days. Remember that the point of the group isn't to bring TSSM back (which is impossible) but to establish that Weisman, Cook, and all of the other writers and directors are the best creative team for Spidey, that we want to see them come back and work with the character again.

[macattack]

Originally Posted by Pep

I'll do a bit more of a thorough purge in a few days. Remember that the point of the group isn't to bring TSSM back (which is impossible) but to establish that Weisman, Cook, and all of the other writers and directors are the best creative team for Spidey, that we want to see them come back and work with the character again.

It's never going to happen. Weisman will never touch Spidey again while the current regime is in charge. It's mostly forgotten now, but Marvel did NOT want Greg Weisman anywhere near Spider-Man for SSM. Weisman was Sony's guy through and through.

[SpaceWay2009]

Hey, Macattack! Good to see you here and on the Toonzone forum. Anyway, why doesn't Marvel want Weisman? I never even heard of this. :/

[SpaceWay2009]

Originally Posted by mehrabix

The Spectacular Spider-Man is the best superhero animated series ever

Thank you for the memories

You will be forever missed

May eternal damnation befall the idiots who canceled you!

That made me smile. lol

By the way, awesome pictures!

[Mistah K88]

Originally Posted by zeptron

It still pisses me off that Roderick Kingsley finally makes an animated appearance and the show gets canned before he becomes Hobgoblin.

I mention this all the time...then after the Spectacular cancellation, they brought Kingsley back in comics to kill him off for Phil Ulrich.

Originally Posted by Pep

The funny thing is that the censorship wasn't that much different in TSSM compared to the 90s cartoon, but they made it less noticeable. For instance, there were still many restrictions on punching in Spectacular, but the writers and storyboarders made sure that Spidey was kept out of situations where he should logically be throwing punches. The action in the 90s cartoon usually played out in a way that made it ridiculously obvious that punches were not allowed, and that's why viewers have always brought so much attention to it.

Correct. If things are done in a clever way, then I could excuse the censors. For example for some odd reason you cannot mention die, death, kill, or anything of the sort in the animated Spidey shows. If they dance around it in a clever way, then no one will notice it.

Thug: Appreciate the help, but we work for the Big Man; we start switching sides and we might as well tie on the toe tags ourselves.
Translation: If we cross our boss it's suicide
Green Goblin: I'm good at tying knots too.
Translation: I am just as capable of killing you.

If you can't use a character to their full potential, and have to neuter them beyond necessary in order to please the censors, you might as well not use them. Right Morbius? Carnage?

[macattack]

Originally Posted by SpaceWay2009

Hey, Macattack! Good to see you here and on the Toonzone forum. Anyway, why doesn't Marvel want Weisman? I never even heard of this. :/

It was mentioned on ToonZone a year or so ago IIRC. Marvel didn't want Weisman because Weisman was a 1. outsider, 2. they feared Weisman would seriously deviate from the comics, 3. Marvel didn't like Weisman's history (too many show cancellations . . . yes, irony), 4. Weisman would make things too "serious/serialized" and not "fun/easy to pick up" . . .

I can go on but Marvel was adamant about not wanting Weisman involved. Sony owned Spidey's TV rights back then however and they decided they would go with Weisman and Marvel had no authority to stop Sony from doing that. Marvel did have authority to stop Weisman from doing some of the things Weisman wanted to do though . . . Rhino was intended to be African and be much smarter in the original version and Marvel said "no" and so Weisman went with Alexander O'Hirn which is pretty much the universal Rhino these days outside of 616 . . . and to his and his staff's credit they made O'Hirn one of my favorite SSM characters. What can I say I like lovable doofus-types like SSM's Rhino.

It puts a lot of Marvel's decisions about USM into light. USM in a lot of ways may have been the show Marvel wanted back in 07-08 and whether on purpose or by accident USM is the exact opposite of SSM in how everything is plotted out and executed.

EDIT: I deleted a lot of my conjecture because it sounds like a conspiracy theory on second thought and that's the last thing I want.

[SpaceWay2009]

Hmm, interesting and ironic. Weisman did a great job with TSSM. It's funny how Marvel didn't want him because they feared he would deviate from the comics; but in the end, many thought Weisman did a good job with blending the 616 comics and even the Raimi's films. lol

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

And there are actually people who want Spider-Man's film rights to revert back to Disney so he can be part of the MCU. What would Disney/MS give us? I sure as hell don't want to find out.

[NickerNacker]

Originally Posted by macattack

It was mentioned on ToonZone a year or so ago IIRC. Marvel didn't want Weisman because Weisman was a 1. outsider, 2. they feared Weisman would seriously deviate from the comics, 3. Marvel didn't like Weisman's history (too many show cancellations . . . yes, irony), 4. Weisman would make things too "serious/serialized" and not "fun/easy to pick up" . . .

I can go on but Marvel was adamant about not wanting Weisman involved. Sony owned Spidey's TV rights back then however and they decided they would go with Weisman and Marvel had no authority to stop Sony from doing that. Marvel did have authority to stop Weisman from doing some of the things Weisman wanted to do though . . . Rhino was intended to be African and be much smarter in the original version and Marvel said "no" and so Weisman went with Alexander O'Hirn which is pretty much the universal Rhino these days outside of 616 . . . and to his and his staff's credit they made O'Hirn one of my favorite SSM characters. What can I say I like lovable doofus-types like SSM's Rhino.

It puts a lot of Marvel's decisions about USM into light. USM in a lot of ways may have been the show Marvel wanted back in 07-08 and whether on purpose or by accident USM is the exact opposite of SSM in how everything is plotted out and executed.

EDIT: I deleted a lot of my conjecture because it sounds like a conspiracy theory on second thought and that's the last thing I want.

Weird, I really don't recall any of that. All I remember is that Craig Kyle (Marvel's main animation guy at the time) really wanted the job but lost out to Weisman, because he had a better pitch. Also Weisman wrote a short/backup story for Marvel in Amazing Spider-Man #622 back in early 2010. So Marvel has worked with him since Spectacular Spider-Man.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I liked that backup Weisman story. If I remember correctly he even commented on the Crawlspace front page after a positve review for it..

[Pep]

Marvel Animation has certainly had its pitfalls, but could they really be so stubborn as to never hire Greg Weisman to ever work on any kind of project, ever? Surely in the future when they get their inevitable DTV line going, they could "sacrifice" one of these projects to him as a hired gun, even if it has no connection to Spider-Man whatsoever. I know that as fans we all want to play up the "creative envy" element of the situation, but can they really be that petty?

Guess we'll see.

[macattack]

Originally Posted by Pep

Marvel Animation has certainly had its pitfalls, but could they really be so stubborn as to never hire Greg Weisman to ever work on any kind of project, ever? Surely in the future when they get their inevitable DTV line going, they could "sacrifice" one of these projects to him as a hired gun, even if it has no connection to Spider-Man whatsoever. I know that as fans we all want to play up the "creative envy" element of the situation, but can they really be that petty?

Guess we'll see.

Actually, Marvel's concerns back in 07/08 are legitimate if you see it from their point of view. Remember, the 90's series was continuity-heavy, Spider-Man Unlimited seriously deviated and was a dud, and MTV Spider-Man was meant for adults and it also failed. Marvel just wanted something easy for kids to pick up and enjoy.

There's no envy or anything going on here. Weisman was not the guy they wanted for Spectacular but Marvel back then couldn't force Sony to not hire him. Sony's the one who accepted Weisman's pitch and ran with it, not Marvel.

[SpaceWay2009]

^Then I would say Sony made the right choice to go with Weisman. :/

[zeptron]

Originally Posted by Mistah K88

Correct. If things are done in a clever way, then I could excuse the censors. For example for some odd reason you cannot mention die, death, kill, or anything of the sort in the animated Spidey shows. If they dance around it in a clever way, then no one will notice it.

Thug: Appreciate the help, but we work for the Big Man; we start switching sides and we might as well tie on the toe tags ourselves.
Translation: If we cross our boss it's suicide
Green Goblin: I'm good at tying knots too.
Translation: I am just as capable of killing you

Green Goblin: "I hid a bomb somewhere. If you don't hurry up and find it, it will paint the town RED! Well the ballroom at least."

Translation: If the bomb exploded, blood would be all over the ballroom.

If you can't use a character to their full potential, and have to neuter them beyond necessary in order to please the censors, you might as well not use them. Right Morbius? Carnage?

And Punisher. I'm surprised they were even able to use him. He's a guy who kills criminals, but wasn't allowed to do so there. And he used net guns.

[SpaceWay2009]

Indeed, TSSM does a great job using different wordings to cleverly avoid the censorship.

[Sarcastic Fan]

Originally Posted by zeptron

Green Goblin: "I hid a bomb somewhere. If you don't hurry up and find it, it will paint the town RED! Well the ballroom at least."

Translation: If the bomb exploded, blood would be all over the ballroom

I believe the exact line was:

"Just a special fire and brimstone pumpkin I left behind as a present for our Mr. Lincoln. Any minute now the creme de la creme of New York City is going to paint the town red! Well, the ballroom anyway."

[Spidey_62]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fan

I believe the exact line was:

"Just a special fire and brimstone pumpkin I left behind as a present for our Mr. Lincoln. Any minute now the creme de la creme of New York City is going to paint the town red! Well, the ballroom anyway."

Ah, Goblin was so well done in TSSM. The best media version of him and Norman ever.

[zeptron]

Indeed. Norman was portrayed more like his comic version. A cold, calculating, ruthless businessman whom rarely expresses fear and not a loving father who whines a lot and scares pretty easily. No split personality either. If he ever appears in the new movie franchise, that's how I would like him to be portrayed.

[macattack]

Originally Posted by NickerNacker

Weird, I really don't recall any of that. All I remember is that Craig Kyle (Marvel's main animation guy at the time) really wanted the job but lost out to Weisman, because he had a better pitch. Also Weisman wrote a short/backup story for Marvel in Amazing Spider-Man #622 back in early 2010. So Marvel has worked with him since Spectacular Spider-Man.

Well, Kyle and Weisman both pitched to Sony, remember? Marvel couldn't really control what Sony wanted to do beyond saying "yes" or "no" to certain story and character elements.

I forgot entirely about that backup story. Thanks.

[zeptron]

I've seen on various forums people saying that a lot of critics gave positive reviews on the show and called it the best Spider-man show ever. Does anyone have any links to these reviews? Not that I don't believe those people, but I'm just interested in reading what the critics had to say.