11.1 - Guardian - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[BritishChap007]

Lex in the finale is the original Lex, IMHO. Doe it make sense? Not so much. But it has to be.

After all, do you really think Cassandra, the old lady who could see a person's the future by touching said person, was able to see the future of Lex's clone? She touched Lex, and saw that he would become president. While obviously I can't be sure exactly how her clairvoyance works, I find it unlikely her vision jumps to a clone.

[SpideyVille]

Originally Posted by BritishChap007

Lex in the finale is the original Lex, IMHO. Doe it make sense? Not so much. But it has to be.

After all, do you really think Cassandra, the old lady who could see a person's the future by touching said person, was able to see the future of Lex's clone? She touched Lex, and saw that he would become president. While obviously I can't be sure exactly how her clairvoyance works, I find it unlikely her vision jumps to a clone.

The problem with that kind of logic is that you're comparing something from the first season, when they had a short term plan with different creators to something that happened 9-10 years later. Al/Miles had no idea what would happen to Lex in the immediate future, and they couldn't especially since they left and Brian/Kelly and others took over and made the decision to kill Lex.

Not to mention, it was already established in Hereafter that people's future, particularly their death could be and were altered by Clark. Lana was originally supposed to die an old woman peacefully in her bed, but then it changed twice after Clark's interference. I would assume that the future she saw was merely where the path that they were on would take them. Like in Apocalypse, we saw that Lex would've ended up in the field with the white suit as President since Clark wasn't around in that reality. But in the real timeline, Clark would never allow Lex to do something like that.

[Lead Cenobite]

I don't really care whether or not it's actually his original body, but it seems that it contains Lex's soul. Wasn't that the point of Lionel's deal with Darkseid?

[Webhead2006]

I can't wait to next week. Just placed my order at my local comic shop for the first print issue.

[KalKai]

Can't believe I missed this. Didn't realize there was a new cover, and what a cover!



What the heck are those robots? Are they Lex's? Or alien in origin?

[Webhead2006]

Man that is a cool cover. As for the robots they sorta look like omacs to me.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Johnny

This didn't bother me that much. I didn't like it but the scene was so good that it didn't leave such a bad taste in my mouth. Lex always used to blame someone else for turning into who he was in the end. He blamed his dad or Clark or whoever else, and could never admit even to himself that he was the one who chose to take that path. And in that final scene where Tess put the toxin on him and told him she won't become like him cuz Clark already saved her, it was kinda the moment of realization for Lex. The look on his face said that he finally realized he was the only one to blame for who he became. And the fact that this was his last realization before his memories got wiped out, make this even more melancholic. At least to me.

So even though I disagree with this as a creative decision by the producers, the way it was played out was great. That's why when I remember it, it doesn't bother me this very much.

That's an interesting reinterpretation of that scene. What look on Lex's face?

He didn't react to Tess saying Clark saved her. He only seemed to react to knowing his memories were going to be wiped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h4Xf...tailpage#t=94s

Nice try.

Originally Posted by Lead Cenobite

I don't really care whether or not it's actually his original body, but it seems that it contains Lex's soul. Wasn't that the point of Lionel's deal with Darkseid?

Nope.

The only soul mentioned was Lionel's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s16uvogKuTk#t=42 s

Bruce Campbell!?

[Young Superman]

Originally Posted by KalKai

Can't believe I missed this. Didn't realize there was a new cover, and what a cover!



What the heck are those robots? Are they Lex's? Or alien in origin?

Cool cover.

[Binker]

Where did that cover come from? It can't be #1 is it? Maybe #4, or the trade cover?

[Johnny]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

That's an interesting reinterpretation of that scene. What look on Lex's face?

He didn't react to Tess saying Clark saved her. He only seemed to react to knowing his memories were going to be wiped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h4Xf...tailpage#t=94s

Nice try.

What nice try? This is the way I personally interpret this moment. I didn't say you have to agree with me. Whether he reacted only to Tess it doesn't matter, it was still melancholic. To me this wasn't a bad scene, that's it.

[Lead Cenobite]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Nope.

The only soul mentioned was Lionel's.

Then why involve a supernatural being such as Darkseid, making a Faustian pact? That's the reason I assumed it was Lex in soul, the inclusion of the supernatural implies that he was there for more than just helping piece together a clone.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Johnny

What nice try? This is the way I personally interpret this moment. I didn't say you have to agree with me. Whether he reacted only to Tess it doesn't matter, it was still melancholic. To me this wasn't a bad scene, that's it.

Fair enough that you've reinterpreted the scene that way, but I didn't see any evidence from the scene that Lex reached that realization. There was no reaction from the actor, not even subtle, and there was no dialogue to convey Lex' coming to this realization.

If it isn't onscreen, then the producers have failed with their goal...if that was their goal with the scene. I'm skeptical. I only care because Lex was the one character they nailed well consistently in the beginning. He got the best characterization. The way they ended him almost seemed insulting to the intelligence of fans.

Originally Posted by Lead Cenobite

Then why involve a supernatural being such as Darkseid, making a Faustian pact?

It's mentioned in the scene itself, the one I linked. Darkseid says he wants Lionel's soul.

Originally Posted by Lead Cenobite

That's the reason I assumed it was Lex in soul, the inclusion of the supernatural implies that he was there for more than just helping piece together a clone

See above.

Off topic, but Darkseid as a supernatual being who is after peoples' souls was a complete misunderstanding of the character. It came off really cliche. Maybe they were trying to build off Supernatural's viewer base, but there must have been better ways to handle Darkseid than that. They didn't come close to doing him justice.

[Johnny]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Fair enough that you've reinterpreted the scene that way, but I didn't see any evidence from the scene that Lex reached that realization. There was no reaction from the actor, not even subtle, and there was no dialogue to convey Lex' coming to this realization.

If it isn't onscreen, then the producers have failed with their goal...if that was their goal with the scene. I'm skeptical. I only care because Lex was the one character they nailed well consistently in the beginning. He got the best characterization. The way they ended him almost seemed insulting to the intelligence of fans.

Well, sorry you feel that way. I never took Smallville so seriously to feel like they were insulting my intelligence

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Off topic, but Darkseid as a supernatual being who is after peoples' souls was a complete misunderstanding of the character. It came off really cliche. Maybe they were trying to build off Supernatural's viewer base, but there must have been better ways to handle Darkseid than that. They didn't come close to doing him justice.

If they were trying to make him more like the comic version, people would've only said how silly he looked. Just like they said about Doomsday. People want something and after they get it, they only start bashing how bad it looks. Most times at least. It's funny really. But that being said I do think Darkseid should've been showcased better.

[Prison Mike]

The 3rd chapter was pretty good. Awesome seeing Green Arrow and Superman fighting together. I was hoping they would get more into Lex but I guess they're saving that for later.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Johnny

Well, sorry you feel that way. I never took Smallville so seriously to feel like they were insulting my intelligence
If they were trying to make him more like the comic version, people would've only said how silly he looked.

It wasn't about asthetics. You missed my point. Turning Darkseid into some supernatural being and playing up the corrupting of souls nonsense... none of that has anything to do with Kirby's Darkseid.

Darkseid isn't Satan.

Smallville's version was Darkseid in name only... really. It was like the writers saw 'Dark' in his name and decided to make him some generic dark magical force.

Originally Posted by Johnny

Just like they said about Doomsday. People want something and after they get it, they only start bashing how bad it looks. Most times at least. It's funny really. But that being said I do think Darkseid should've been showcased better.

More like the Smallville attempts something that it knows it can't pull off, but still teases it to draw in viewers.

It was just another Smallville fake-out.

[Johnny]

No, I didn't miss your point, I get what you're saying. It's not fake-out, it's a different version, nothing more. It's basically an Elseworlds version of Darkseid, Yes, in the main continuity he's not some dark entity searching for strong souls, etc. Even in the New 52 he's the same with a different attire and a daughter in stead of son. But what is the problem with him being different in another universe? Smallville has always been a parallel universe Superman type of show, so I've never seen anything wrong with changing villains. Every time they tried to line up something with the mythos, they always failed anyway. Better to see something else than a bad attempt at the original. Whether we like the new version or not, is a totally different thing.

[Prison Mike]

The only thing that bothered me about Darkseid was how we got Lionel as the host rather than the real Darkseid and how everyone referred to him as the darkness. That got old real fast.

[Webhead2006]

cover had to be for issue 4 or 5 of digital release. Since we already knew what is the cover for print first issue which is out next week. I too didnt like the whole darkness thing for the most part. I said it before they should have either done that plot from the comics where darkseid and his minions lost there bodies and possessed humans to cause issues on earth. So they could have just done and random actor and have darkseid, granny, desaad, and what not play more into the season.

Or they should have bumped granny as main villain of the season, with desaad her big time lacky, and tossed in maybe a few female furies episodes, maybe a kalibak episode. With then guest hero should have been orion or big brada counting on rights issues then have a physical darksied for last 2 or 3 episodes. Where they could have justed hired a stunt actor to play him, and modified the doomsday suit.

[The Boy Scout]

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

Man that is a cool cover. As for the robots they sorta look like omacs to me.

That was my first thought, too.

[SpideyVille]

Originally Posted by Johnny

No, I didn't miss your point, I get what you're saying. It's not fake-out, it's a different version, nothing more. It's basically an Elseworlds version of Darkseid, Yes, in the main continuity he's not some dark entity searching for strong souls, etc. Even in the New 52 he's the same with a different attire and a daughter in stead of son. But what is the problem with him being different in another universe? Smallville has always been a parallel universe Superman type of show, so I've never seen anything wrong with changing villains. Every time they tried to line up something with the mythos, they always failed anyway. Better to see something else than a bad attempt at the original. Whether we like the new version or not, is a totally different thing.

Yeah, that's been my biggest gripe when it comes to people who complain about Smallville and the changes. Granted, some things were done horribly, but to complain about how they weren't accurate to the comics is not fair because the comics make changes all the time, and Smallville is just another version of a story.

I thought the buildup to Doomsday was pretty good since they gave him more of a personality, even though it was kind of a Banner/Hulk thing. But the pay off was just bad. Darkseid, however, didn't really have much of a presence other than in name and a few glimpses. But that's I loved season 9 so much, because Zod had such a great buildup and a strong presence season long and I thought they handled him pretty well.

[Webhead2006]

totally callum zod, and marsters brainiac were the best handled villains after lex i say.

[Johnny]

New chapter was good. Great to see some Clark/Ollie and Chlo-Lo action and the cliffhanger got me curious. Can't wait to see what happens with Tess and Lex too. BQM said Hank Henshaw shows up very soon so I guess we're gonna get our hands full of cliffhangers lol.

[ironman29758]

Originally Posted by Johnny

No, I didn't miss your point, I get what you're saying. It's not fake-out, it's a different version, nothing more. It's basically an Elseworlds version of Darkseid, Yes, in the main continuity he's not some dark entity searching for strong souls, etc. Even in the New 52 he's the same with a different attire and a daughter in stead of son. But what is the problem with him being different in another universe? Smallville has always been a parallel universe Superman type of show, so I've never seen anything wrong with changing villains. Every time they tried to line up something with the mythos, they always failed anyway. Better to see something else than a bad attempt at the original. Whether we like the new version or not, is a totally different thing.

Originally Posted by SpideyVille

Yeah, that's been my biggest gripe when it comes to people who complain about Smallville and the changes. Granted, some things were done horribly, but to complain about how they weren't accurate to the comics is not fair because the comics make changes all the time, and Smallville is just another version of a story.

I thought the buildup to Doomsday was pretty good since they gave him more of a personality, even though it was kind of a Banner/Hulk thing. But the pay off was just bad. Darkseid, however, didn't really have much of a presence other than in name and a few glimpses. But that's I loved season 9 so much, because Zod had such a great buildup and a strong presence season long and I thought they handled him pretty well.

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

totally callum zod, and marsters brainiac were the best handled villains after lex i say.

I feel the closest versions of the comics Darkseid resembles is the Legends comics(because of how they were turning the public against the heroes and making the JL Stronger,Godfrey's role basiaclly) and Final Crisis(New gods possesing human bodies, Anti-Life equation controling the people and some heroes, the devil/good vs evil comparisons, superheroes prepared for the upcoming war, ETC). Some times the aligning to the comics or characters has been translated to Smallville has been good(Clark Kent, Zod, JLers, Blue Beetle, Zatanna, Brainiac in Legion and kind of Brainiac 5), some were aligning was kind of rocky but still good as they(Doomsday, Lex Luthor) some were rough and made almost no sense (Metallo) and some were nothing like the comics(Myxzltplk). But overall has been good to watch.

[STC]

Originally Posted by KalKai

Can't believe I missed this. Didn't realize there was a new cover, and what a cover!



What the heck are those robots? Are they Lex's? Or alien in origin?

Where did you find this? Is this a variant cover? to what issue?

[Webhead2006]

Has to be for next issue or an upcoming one.