11.1 - Guardian - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Webhead2006]

It is funny when they do that stuff. And thanks for the schedule for ditigal and print releases. Ya I doubt there is an issue with likenesses. When they signed onto the show they give the rights to wb/dc to use there liknesses in any media. My guess is perez probably just got a little lazy on drawing lois and tess.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Originally Posted by Brainiac 8

Have they said if and when they are going to release the first trade with the first several full issues bound together?

Don't think they've released that, but if I were to venture a guess I'd say sometime in late August/early September maybe?

[Rockstar]

Finally downloaded one of these issues illegally.

The only issue I had was with them establishing that everyone knows Oliver is Green Arrow, then having Clark walk around publically with Oliver right after Superman saved Green Arrow.

I mean they were walking right in front of the police and the criminals in the earlier panels. Way to expose Clark's identity.




It's one of those things that would be a major fail in live action, but works here in the comics.

[Johnny]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

It's one of those things that would be a major fail in live action, but works here in the comics.

Which is what I don't understand. Why fans think stuff like that is ok to happen in the comics but stupid and retarded in live action?

[Rockstar]

Because animation and artwork allows for an easier break from reality and logic, than compared to live action.

It's a different medium.

It's harder defend with real actors. Using real actors usually means that there needs to be a real-world logic for things to be believable and plausible, with specific regards to the superhero genre.


EX: If we got a live action Season 11, there's no way Welling's Clark disguise would be logical or believable after practically everyone at the DP and Smallville already saw Clark without the disguise and nerdy behavior. He'd be immediately recognizable as Superman.

However, in the context of these comics... it works.

[Webhead2006]

Oh come on really just cause ollie is friends with clark that instantly outs him as superman. Hell there is plently of publically known heroes who work with/interact with other heroes who are secret identies in the public.

Also look in other books/tv/films when two characters are walking and talking to others in a sea of folks. It doesn't mean what they are talking about is being heard or listen to by random joe walking near or passed.

[Rockstar]

Webhead, I never believed a human being could lack the common sense, intelligence and logic to be fooled by something so obvious, ... until I read your posts.

[Webhead2006]

And why do you think I lack that stuff rock. I was merly just commenting on the issue you spoke of.

[herolee10]

All I’ll say is this:

• I’ve never been the biggest fan of scenarios where a hero ousts himself to the world in regards to his hero identity because I’ve never really seen the consequences of such actions fully explored. Given that Oliver is sure to have made a lot of enemies as GA already, along with how he’s not bulletproof by any means or has a security guard with him 24/7, it doesn’t make sense for me at least to think that someone wouldn’t try attack him or kill him in a assassination attempt when he’s made himself to be such a easy target.

• In regards to Clark’s issue, I will admit that I wasn’t the biggest fan of how they went about it, especially since after making a big deal about the glasses on how they forgot to have Clark wear them at his own wedding. Be that as it may, the impression that I’ve been getting is that Clark hasn’t shown his face as Superman for the Entire world to see and that he only allows certain people (namely the ones that he’s rescued who have never met him before as Clark Kent) to see his face. So rather than always blurring away, he probably allows people to see him from a distance when he’s flying.

Note: Rockstar, I know that people have a right to their own opinions here, but seriously dude, you need to cut back with the insults that you throw at people around here man.

[John Locke]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Because animation and artwork allows for an easier break from reality and logic, than compared to live action.

It's a different medium.

It's harder defend with real actors. Using real actors usually means that there needs to be a real-world logic for things to be believable and plausible, with specific regards to the superhero genre.


EX: If we got a live action Season 11, there's no way Welling's Clark disguise would be logical or believable after practically everyone at the DP and Smallville already saw Clark without the disguise and nerdy behavior. He'd be immediately recognizable as Superman.

However, in the context of these comics... it works.

It would make sense because it's a show about a superhero. Those shows and movies get away with it. In reality people would know that Bruce Wayne is Batman because Batman arrived the same time Bruce returned from the dead. But in BB no one even thinks that and you see no fans complaining. Another example Mary Jane would figure out Peter's Spider-Man because every time Peter bails on her, Spider-Man saves someone. Not to mention the fact that Peter signed up in to fight BoneSaw as Spider-Man. Wouldn't he have had paper work? Or at least the people who saw him sign up tell someone? Or that the he went after the guy who killed Uncle Ben who was shot a block away from the ring? Those worked so why wouldn't this?

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

And why do you think I lack that stuff rock. I was merly just commenting on the issue you spoke of.

I didn't mean to insult you.

I was commenting on the absurdity of the concept.

I could buy it working within the context of animation and comics, but not in any live action medium meant to be taken seriously.

Though it's questionable whether Smallville was meant to be taken seriously, especially in it's final years.

They handled the glasses and CK disguise in a very 'tongue and cheek' manner, since they knew they were screwed. They weren't even consistent with it either (and this was right before Superman appeared to the public).



It would have made more logical sense to introduce the CK disguise several seasons prior, instead of just putting the real farmboy Clark persona in Metropolis and the DP.

I honestly wish they went with a sci-fi explanation for this one, since Smallville has already pulled the 'deus ex machina' magic card hundreds of times.

[Webhead2006]

Ah ok rock I thought you where being mean to me. And I wasn't liking that at all. But totally the whole glasses thing next to lana was a badly handled deal.

I said it many times over the yrs, they should have had clark wear glasses full time after he was temporary blinded. So then that would have solved issues with lois, jimmy, and other associates through the yrs. And then with lex they could have handled it as he just slowly forgot how clark looked without them. And then really tom would have only needed to wear glasses for a few scenes per episodes, ie back then school scenes, and any out in public scenes. But when home, with pete, chloe, and when he was being hero not have them. But again glasses issue we can thank gough and millar. They said many times it wasn't there problem to worry about. So that really put the other producers in a real corner in what to do there.

[Rockstar]

I would have done it differently.

When Clark announced to Jor-El that he would be marrying Lois towards the end of S10, Jor-El would give him a choice whether he would continue to live out his life as 'Clark Kent' (a savior in the shadows) or become 'Superman' (a public superhero to the world).

Jor-El would mention that Clark can't be both and must choose his path. The price of becoming Superman is that all memories of 'Clark Kent' would be wiped from the entire human civilization (including those closest to Clark) allowing for Clark to fully become Superman.

Clark would have to heroically sacrifice his relationship with Lois and the other humans to become Superman. After he decides to become Superman and the world has lost their memories of Clark Kent, Superman would create the exaggerated mild mannered reporter persona to blend into civilization.

Lois would develop a relationship with Superman and Luthor would develop a hatred for him. No one would know the real Clark Kent, just the exaggerated CK persona with the glasses at the DP who fades into the background.

[Webhead2006]

I wouldn't have wanted a world wide mind wipe. That would have been even more silly thing to do.

[herolee10]

Honestly when it comes down to it, the fault really lies on the fact that the producers waited way too long to initiate some important key elements in the formation of Clark’s alter ego.

There’s no excuse imho as to why the show had to wait till the series finale for Clark to fully tap into this flying powers, let alone on how they had him wait till the second half of season 10 before he started wearing glasses.

If they were smart about it, I would have had Clark wearing glasses back in season 3. You could argue that Clark could have come up with that idea as a way of trying to conceal the fact that he was running around in Metropolis as Kal for a few months and didn’t want people to notice him. If you add that to the idea that Clark found it valuable when people thought he was normal based on his near blinding accident with a run in from a meteor freak, then that would have helped.

As for flying, I could accept that Martian Manhunter and Hawkman could fly since they’re not kryptonian, but when you start bringing in Kryptonians who can fly miles around Clark, let alone ones who have not had as much yellow sunlight radiation as he has had, then it just gets ridiculous.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

I wouldn't have wanted a world wide mind wipe. That would have been even more silly thing to do.

That's basically what we've gotten in the comic.

Everyone is conveniently unable to recognize Clark as Superman, even though most have seen him without the glasses.


My take just explains why that has happened.


It really just came down to the producers not caring whether it made sense or not.

Originally Posted by herolee10

Honestly when it comes down to it, the fault really lies on the fact that the producers waited way too long to initiate some important key elements in the formation of Clark’s alter ego.

There’s no excuse imho as to why the show had to wait till the series finale for Clark to fully tap into this flying powers, let alone on how they had him wait till the second half of season 10 before he started wearing glasses.

Tom Welling.

He didn't want to wear the suit. It wouldn't shock me if he wasn't keen on the glasses being a regular thing either.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

That's basically what we've gotten in the comic.

Everyone is conveniently unable to recognize Clark as Superman, even though most have seen him without the glasses.


My take just explains why that has happened.

It really just came down to the producers not caring whether it made sense or not.

I've never bought this. Even if you had never met Clark until the day after Superman "came out" to the World and had only ever seen him with his glasses, it would take all of about 30 seconds to figure out he was Superman.

There's no realistic way to go about this, never has been, especially given he sits across a desk from the best investigative reporter on the planet (although not an issue on Smallville) and his arch nemesis is a billionaire with a genius-level intellect.

It's just part of the suspension of disbelief that you buy into when you come aboard with the legend.

Tom Welling.

He didn't want to wear the suit. It wouldn't shock me if he wasn't keen on the glasses being a regular thing either.

People still going on with the hearsay about Welling not wanting to wear the suit? C'mon people, we got past this over a year ago.

There was no suit for him to wear, it was never in the producers plans. Souders and Peterson confirmed this.

[The Incredible Hulk]

Anyway, Chapter 6 came out today.

Anybody have a chance to dl it yet?

[RakuMon]

Originally Posted by The Incredible Hulk

I've never bought this. Even if you had never met Clark until the day after Superman "came out" to the World and had only ever seen him with his glasses, it would take all of about 30 seconds to figure out he was Superman.

There's no realistic way to go about this, never has been, especially given he sits across a desk from the best investigative reporter on the planet (although not an issue on Smallville) and his arch nemesis is a billionaire with a genius-level intellect.

It's just part of the suspension of disbelief that you buy into when you come aboard with the legend.

Agreed. I thought the best way to address this fact on the show would have been in the episode "Whisper" when Clark wears glasses for the first time. There's a scene in which Pete sees Clark in the glasses and knows it's him (of course).

If, at the time, the writers gave a Pete a line like "Clark? Didn't recognize you in those glasses!" then it would have been a fun nod to the comics and a nice foreshadow to the moment Clark actually donned glasses and instantly became unrecognizable.

[Webhead2006]

I still blame the whole flying thing and glasses on gough and millar. As I said they had no interest in doing those things.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by The Incredible Hulk

I've never bought this. Even if you had never met Clark until the day after Superman "came out" to the World and had only ever seen him with his glasses, it would take all of about 30 seconds to figure out he was Superman.

There's no realistic way to go about this, never has been, especially given he sits across a desk from the best investigative reporter on the planet (although not an issue on Smallville) and his arch nemesis is a billionaire with a genius-level intellect.

It's just part of the suspension of disbelief that you buy into when you come aboard with the legend.

It's easier to suspend belief when there's some logic behind the CK disguise.

It doesn't necessarily have to be 100% realistic, but I believe directors like Donner used the word "verisimilitude" to describe it. There has to be a visible change in Superman's appearance (hair, glasses, work suit), voice, mannerisms, posture etc to allow his Clark Kent disguise to fade into the background. That's the best way to sell it to an audience.

It's thin, but it can work. Smallville's take on it completely compromises the slim believability of that.

Originally Posted by The Incredible Hulk

People still going on with the hearsay about Welling not wanting to wear the suit? C'mon people, we got past this over a year ago.

There was no suit for him to wear, it was never in the producers plans. Souders and Peterson confirmed this.

That interview sounds interesting. I must have missed it. Do you have the link by any chance?


I don't understand why the producers would go to all the effort of CGIing Superman in order to have him physically there in the finale, yet not want Tom Welling to wear the Superman tights?

After ten years, they could have easily made a costume for him. I mean they went to all the effort to make this for just one scene basically:

[SpideyVille]

I don't know whether the talk of Welling not wanting to wear the suit is true or not, but I agree. They went through the trouble of making costumes for several characters that only appeared once, yet by the end of season 9, they already planned on introducing the costume at some point. If they really wanted him to wear it, they wouldn't have bothered to use the SR one as a stand in, especially considering that they used a different prop suit for the shot when Jonathan hands him the suit.

The plan may not have been to show Welling in the suit in its entirety, but with the use of SR CGI models and a drawing of Superman in the suit, it's pretty clear that there was something else going on behind the scenes that forced them to make those decisions.

[Webhead2006]

I think the suit thing was an issue for tom when the show started, but around season 8/9 he changed his view on that.

[vantheman77]

They were able to make suits for the other DCU characters, yet they couldn't or wouldn't make one for the star of the show. That shows you where their priorities were at last year.

When AlMiles didn't want to touch on the areas related to Superman such as flight, tights, and glasses, it was clear they had no intention of lining up with the Superman mythos. By the time they left, Clark was nowhere near his destiny as they had people believed. For them, it was Clark/ Lex/ Lana all the way to their end.

[SpideyVille]

Originally Posted by vantheman77

They were able to make suits for the other DCU characters, yet they couldn't or wouldn't make one for the star of the show. That shows you where their priorities were at last year.

When AlMiles didn't want to touch on the areas related to Superman such as flight, tights, and glasses, it was clear they had no intention of lining up with the Superman mythos. By the time they left, Clark was nowhere near his destiny as they had people believed. For them, it was Clark/ Lex/ Lana all the way to their end.

Well, if I recall correctly, the series was going to end after season 4, so Clark was going to be trapped in the fortress for 7 years to sort of line up with the Donner film. But once they decided to continue it past that and into season 5, that's when things started to fall apart because it became more about continuing the show than telling a good story.

I personally feel the show was still doing well until Jonathan's death. After that it went downhill and everything was more focused on finding a reason to keep Clark around, and that was a big fault of Al/Miles. I give Brian and Kelly a lot of credit for being able to turn the show in a new direction after their departure, and despite the mistakes they made halfway into season 8, they still set it up for Clark to actually become Superman at some point.