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View Poll Results: Which one is going to make more money?
The Avengers 33 22.76%
The Dark Knight Rises 112 77.24%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-16-2012, 05:11 PM   #126
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Thinking it added a significant box office increase in the order of hundreds of millions of dollars is absurd. Ledgers death at best draws in a small percentage of people with a morbid curiosity for a one time viewing, but the film in and of itself was great in spite of his death and probably would have made close to the same amount had he been alive anyway. If the film was average it wouldn't have made the money it did.
That morbid curiosity has made actors into legends, just like with Ledger. You need more than a few people to achieve that. TDK became one of his last movies, and posthumous at that. Fresh material, not to mention he was the Joker which was a big hook already, from the prematurely dead great actor. You cannot expect but hordes of people going to see the movie.

That's not saying TDK's nuymbers wouldn't have been great w/o the Ledger's death factor.


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Old 03-16-2012, 06:38 PM   #127
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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That morbid curiosity has made actors into legends, just like with Ledger. You need more than a few people to achieve that. TDK became one of his last movies, and posthumous at that. Fresh material, not to mention he was the Joker which was a big hook already, from the prematurely dead great actor. You cannot expect but hordes of people going to see the movie.

That's not saying TDK's nuymbers wouldn't have been great w/o the Ledger's death factor.
Hoards of people were going to see the movie regardless. The point is his death never contributed to the box office in a significant way, and I'm sick of hearing how that was a reason TDK was as massive as it was because it cheapens the movie. And if you agree with that then I'm not sure what the hell the point is you're trying to make.

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Old 03-16-2012, 06:52 PM   #128
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Hoards of people were going to see the movie regardless. The point is his death never contributed to the box office in a significant way, and I'm sick of hearing how that was a reason TDK was as massive as it was because it cheapens the movie. And if you agree with that then I'm not sure what the hell the point is you're trying to make.
Simple, that TDK numbers were going to be great but if Ledger hadn't died it wouldn't have been that great.

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Old 03-16-2012, 06:58 PM   #129
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Simple, that TDK numbers were going to be great but if Ledger hadn't died it wouldn't have been that great.
Put a number on it.

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Old 03-16-2012, 07:16 PM   #130
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Old 03-16-2012, 07:18 PM   #131
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

$200 million less? Please.

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Old 03-16-2012, 07:20 PM   #132
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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$200 million less? Please.
Easily, yes.

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Old 03-16-2012, 09:27 PM   #133
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

I'll say one thing...

...without Batman Begins, this film wouldn't have been nearly as successful, Ledger's death/performance or not.

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Old 03-16-2012, 10:04 PM   #134
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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I'll say one thing...

...without Batman Begins, this film wouldn't have been nearly as successful, Ledger's death/performance or not.
I agree. Begins said, look there's something different about superhero movies. This is just a little sample. Wanna see the real deal? Stay tuned.

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Old 03-16-2012, 10:09 PM   #135
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

I stick to my guns. If Ledger hadn't died, you can chop 100M off the final WW gross. If you didn't have his amazing performance either? Then you'd probably be looking at somewhere in the 600M range, assuming a merely serviceable Joker.

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Old 03-16-2012, 10:18 PM   #136
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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I stick to my guns. If Ledger hadn't died, you can chop 100M off the final WW gross. If you didn't have his amazing performance either? Then you'd probably be looking at somewhere in the 600M range, assuming a merely serviceable Joker.
Wait a sec. Ledger dying is an extra factor. It's not part of the movie but obviously affected its performance at the BO. Ledger's performance, on the other hand, was part of the movie. You can't just take it out. Otherwise you'll end up in the absurdity of saying 'and if we remove Nolan from the movie,' 'if we remove Batman from the movie.' I mean...

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Old 03-18-2012, 12:03 AM   #137
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Wait a sec. Ledger dying is an extra factor. It's not part of the movie but obviously affected its performance at the BO. Ledger's performance, on the other hand, was part of the movie. You can't just take it out. Otherwise you'll end up in the absurdity of saying 'and if we remove Nolan from the movie,' 'if we remove Batman from the movie.' I mean...
I agree with the basic content here but to modify what he says: I don't see Tom Hardy's Bane or Hathaway's Catwoman to outshine Ledger's Joker as a draw. Although I fully expect both to be better than any of the first movie's villains. Ledger's performance definitely converted to numbers though.

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Old 03-18-2012, 10:25 AM   #138
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

Yep. It is, indeed, part of the movie. . . but I don't expect the analogous parts of TDKR to provide the same draw. Neither Catwoman nor Bane is as iconic a villain, for instance. So, its a *net* loss, by comparison.

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Old 03-18-2012, 10:46 AM   #139
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Yep. It is, indeed, part of the movie. . . but I don't expect the analogous parts of TDKR to provide the same draw. Neither Catwoman nor Bane is as iconic a villain, for instance. So, its a *net* loss, by comparison.
Catwoman definitely is.

Not saying Anne Hathaway will pull a Ledger but Catwoman is popular within the collective memory.

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Old 03-18-2012, 10:54 AM   #140
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

Not as much as the Joka though. But whatever, TDKR will still make serious business...

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Old 03-18-2012, 11:09 AM   #141
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

TDKR.

A lot of new audience was brought in by Ledger, it's true, but I predict a lot of them will stay with the franchise because of the general quality of the movie.

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Old 03-18-2012, 12:14 PM   #142
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Not as much as the Joka though. But whatever, TDKR will still make serious business...
That's a different story. Nobody's the Joker.



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TDKR.

A lot of new audience was brought in by Ledger, it's true, but I predict a lot of them will stay with the franchise because of the general quality of the movie.
Very good point. I agree.

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Old 03-19-2012, 07:51 AM   #143
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Put a number on it.
This is impossible and you know it. Was it $100M. Most likely not. Was it $1M. Again, most likely not.

Ledger's death may not have directly gotten butts into the seats. But, news outlets covering his death would inevitably talk about TDK, which is in essence, free promotion. So for a week, if not more, major news outlets, magazines, etc, all talking about his death, would also mention TDK. Someone watching or reading those stories all of sudden has awareness they may not have had before. They may also read about how his fellow castmembers said he created an indelible performance, which he did, and decide they want to see that performance for themselves.

So I would say that his unfortunate death did benefit the movie, directly or indirectly.

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Old 04-25-2012, 09:00 AM   #144
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

Considering the caliber of critics reporting in for Avengers right now I'm amazed it has a 97% and an 8.4/10. Wasn't TDK in the 7 out of 10 range?

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Old 04-25-2012, 10:00 AM   #145
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

I'll wait until more American reviews are released to compare the two.

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Old 04-25-2012, 10:21 AM   #146
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

tbf there are only like 20 Avengers reviews on rt.

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Old 04-25-2012, 10:47 AM   #147
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

Films almost always drop the more reviews they get. Starting off high means nothing.

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Old 04-25-2012, 11:56 AM   #148
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Considering the caliber of critics reporting in for Avengers right now I'm amazed it has a 97% and an 8.4/10. Wasn't TDK in the 7 out of 10 range?
TDK finished with a 8.4/10 from 283 reviews.

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Old 04-25-2012, 12:04 PM   #149
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

Why so little reviews for The Avengers?

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Old 04-25-2012, 12:08 PM   #150
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Why so little reviews for The Avengers?
Still an embargo for most American reviews. There will be a ton of them over the next week and a half, obviously.

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