TIH vs. Ang Lee's Hulk

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

I absolutely agree. Problem is that they tried way too hard to make it everyone's cookie, and there were fast pace and the usual one-liners that made it the average superhero movie.

The first act was perfect IMO. Except for crap like "don't make me hungry" which doesn't make anys ense because anyone knows that Portuguese doesn't have the same play of words.

But the fugitive angle from the TV series worked at a different level than in the TV series. It was great. Also when he had problems getting new clothes, something to eat. It was fantastic. But then there was so much going on to get. Since it didn't styart fropm the beginning, I felt disconnected with Bruce and Betty's romance. I just assumed it was the classic love interest and that's it. Abomination, Mr. Blue, etc, all good elements that were compressed into the less-than-2-hour movie.

Now things like "Can't make love... might hulk-out" or that completely unnecessary, made just for the sake of emotion free fall from Bruce was weird. Really? there was no chance but to suicide? And Ross and the military would allow a man to commit suicide just in case he turns into Hulk? Add to that that, once you get over that, in the middle of the fallen, in the middle of the excitement... Bruce goes "Oh, *****." Yes, THE worst part to place a joke. And they did it.

Now, this is just me, but I'm not keen on the Bruce controls Hulk thing. To me that's just like a gritty Superman, a smiling happy-with-life Batman or a Peter Parker that has no money problems. It's taking the tragedy out of a tragic character.

But he doesn't control the Hulk really. The movie hints he is attempting to do that, but in the final part of the movie, Bruce more or less guides the monster. As opposed to trying to destroy the monster, which stems from his own inner darkness, he tries to use it in a heroic light, and the Hulk becomes less feral as a result look at Hulk in prior scenes, willing to kill people, vs. when he relents once Betty asks him to stop. It shows a shift in how Bruce's inner compassion and desires are becoming more part of the Hulk now that he is embracing it to an extent. I don't think it took the tragedy away, because the Hulk is still a monster inside him he can't control. He just made it more noble. As for the free fall, I love that scene. It shows Bruce's inner hero, which becomes part of the Hulk. Now, the joke they inserted during the fall was lame, I give you that, but the moment itself when he jumps out of the plane is powerful.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

But he doesn't control the Hulk really. The movie hints he is attempting to do that, but in the final part of the movie, Bruce more or less guides the monster. As opposed to trying to destroy the monster, which stems from his own inner darkness, he tries to use it in a heroic light, and the Hulk becomes less feral as a result look at Hulk in prior scenes, willing to kill people, vs. when he relents once Betty asks him to stop. It shows a shift in how Bruce's inner compassion and desires are becoming more part of the Hulk now that he is embracing it to an extent. I don't think it took the tragedy away, because the Hulk is still a monster inside him he can't control. He just made it more noble.

Ah, I wasn't refering to that, S-F. I liekd that. Much like in the TV show, the Hulk knows who are the "bad guys" and who should be stopped.

I wa stalking about the last scene, when Bruce open his eyes with a big smile and his eyes are hulk-out-green. That tells me he completely controls it. Least what I made of it.

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

As for the free fall, I love that scene. It shows Bruce's inner hero, which becomes part of the Hulk.

I don't think Bruce's fallen was bad, but it came out way too forced. He could surely have come back to the streets or hulk-out in a different way that didn't threaten his own life. I'm more than okay with him making a heroic sacrifice, but as long as it is reasonable to do it.

For all he knows, he's cured so if he jumps he's a dead man. Being him the man who knows the most about hulking creatures it's absolutely stupid to kill himself for nothing. There was many other ways to check if he is still the Hulk. So more than 'heroic' it came up pretty much rash and not very intelligent.

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

Now, the joke they inserted during the fall was lame, I give you that, but the moment itself when he jumps out of the plane is powerful.

That's my problem. It's like having suich a great moment like "I'm Batman" ruined by a subsequent "Nice coat." Worst of all, it's unnecessary and just a bad habit of these movies.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

I absolutely agree. Problem is that they tried way too hard to make it everyone's cookie, and there were fast pace and the usual one-liners that made it the average superhero movie.

The first act was perfect IMO. Except for crap like "don't make me hungry" which doesn't make anys ense because anyone knows that Portuguese doesn't have the same play of words.

But the fugitive angle from the TV series worked at a different level than in the TV series. It was great. Also when he had problems getting new clothes, something to eat. It was fantastic. But then there was so much going on to get. Since it didn't styart fropm the beginning, I felt disconnected with Bruce and Betty's romance. I just assumed it was the classic love interest and that's it. Abomination, Mr. Blue, etc, all good elements that were compressed into the less-than-2-hour movie.

Now things like "Can't make love... might hulk-out" or that completely unnecessary, made just for the sake of emotion free fall from Bruce was weird. Really? there was no chance but to suicide? And Ross and the military would allow a man to commit suicide just in case he turns into Hulk? Add to that that, once you get over that, in the middle of the fallen, in the middle of the excitement... Bruce goes "Oh, *****." Yes, THE worst part to place a joke. And they did it.

Now, this is just me, but I'm not keen on the Bruce controls Hulk thing. To me that's just like a gritty Superman, a smiling happy-with-life Batman or a Peter Parker that has no money problems. It's taking the tragedy out of a tragic character.

That was my problem with TIH, it tried to go too far away from what Ang did and became pretty much typical summer fare. It wasnt brainless and had some emotion in the movie, but no were the level for either that Ang's had, it was made more for teenagers who love 'cool action' more than people who just wanted a good movie.

I think if we would have gotten the Norton, we would have had a much better movie on our hands. Probably still not as good as Ang's movie but a bit better and deeper than what we got.

[DorkyFresh]

Well, Louis Leterrier directed TIH and there's only so much substance he can fit into his movies before it's actually...ya know, good.

[metaphysician]

Both the movies had strengths and flaws, but IMO, the Ang Lee Hulk was better. It had a better written Banner, a vastly superior General Ross, the superior set piece fight scene in the form of "Hulk vs the Army". . . honestly, I even liked Nolte as David Banner.

Its main problems?

1. Pacing. Ang Lee paced it like a horror movie, and that meant it was too long before we any action happened. People were not expecting that.

2. Glenn Talbot was a cartoon character. The card carrying villain-hood should have been toned down a tad.

3. The ending sequence. While I think the conversation between David and Bruce was quite good, the whole sequence just didn't belong. The climax of the movie was past, it didn't need an additional fight sequence, and a badly conceived one at that.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

Both the movies had strengths and flaws, but IMO, the Ang Lee Hulk was better. It had a better written Banner, a vastly superior General Ross, the superior set piece fight scene in the form of "Hulk vs the Army". . . honestly, I even liked Nolte as David Banner.

Its main problems?

1. Pacing. Ang Lee paced it like a horror movie, and that meant it was too long before we any action happened. People were not expecting that.

2. Glenn Talbot was a cartoon character. The card carrying villain-hood should have been toned down a tad.

3. The ending sequence. While I think the conversation between David and Bruce was quite good, the whole sequence just didn't belong. The climax of the movie was past, it didn't need an additional fight sequence, and a badly conceived one at that.

I found the last conversation to be interesting acting-wise.

But it was the time to set everything clear. I mean, I barely could understand the motivations of David with his son. Apparently it was all about his experiment. You know, you, son are nothing to me but that monster who lives inside of you. But then again, he apparently wanted to absorb Hulk's energy. It was very confusing.

And one thing that I simply can't understand: they all know Bruce can change into the Hulk. They'¡re ready to fry him if anything happens. And yet they see Bruce and david discuss, Bruce even shouts out loud and cries, and no one thought 'mh, he's upset, this is where we must electrocute him before he smashes us?'

Add to that that chaotic fight between Hulk and Absorbing Man and yes, the finale is not the best out there. Takes you a while to figure out what the hell happened. One second you have Bruce and this electric beast at the military facility and the next Hulk is in a lake. You've just missed the last trasnformation thanks to those comic panels!

[craigdbfan]

Yeah that last part was a bit jarring.

[metaphysician]

If I were rewriting it, I'd have the ending simply being Banner returned to Gamma Base. General Ross argued successfully that the rampage represented not a fundamental danger of Banner, so much as a fundamental danger in Talbot being a total idiot. So, last scene is Banner, inside a lab, working on a cure. . . pull back to see its a heavily armored lab, deep inside Gamma Base.

Then, a stinger to remind you that, yes, David Banner is still out there. Save him as the super powered villain of the sequel.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

I found the last conversation to be interesting acting-wise.

But it was the time to set everything clear. I mean, I barely could understand the motivations of David with his son. Apparently it was all about his experiment. You know, you, son are nothing to me but that monster who lives inside of you. But then again, he apparently wanted to absorb Hulk's energy. It was very confusing.

And one thing that I simply can't understand: they all know Bruce can change into the Hulk. They'¡re ready to fry him if anything happens. And yet they see Bruce and david discuss, Bruce even shouts out loud and cries, and no one thought 'mh, he's upset, this is where we must electrocute him before he smashes us?'

Add to that that chaotic fight between Hulk and Absorbing Man and yes, the finale is not the best out there. Takes you a while to figure out what the hell happened. One second you have Bruce and this electric beast at the military facility and the next Hulk is in a lake. You've just missed the last trasnformation thanks to those comic panels!

Most of the film relating to his father is confusing. That rant he goes on in front of him makes little sense, and you can almost not hear what he is saying. It's hard to tell exactly what he wants from his son, other than his power of course. And this is my point, the movie tries very hard to be deep, but it forgets to make sense. The whole ending is a big WTF, and as far as logic goes, makes the military people look like morons. I still don't know why they let his dad talk to him at all. Why did they need to appease Betty? Sure, they wanted him. But why not try and make the deal and then just arrest him? Why let him potentially anger a man they are afraid of? And no less, why let him break him like a horse verbally for like 10 mins before attempting to fry Banner or end the session? Banner was clearly getting mad! WAY before they do anything about it. Makes them look dumb and is poor writing. I think that feels more forced to me than Banner's fall in TIH.

[Midnyte_Sun]

I liked Ang Lee's back story, but I liked TIH's action better. This is a tough call, but for the fact that you had an added Avengers Tie in, TIH wins.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

If I were rewriting it, I'd have the ending simply being Banner returned to Gamma Base. General Ross argued successfully that the rampage represented not a fundamental danger of Banner, so much as a fundamental danger in Talbot being a total idiot. So, last scene is Banner, inside a lab, working on a cure. . . pull back to see its a heavily armored lab, deep inside Gamma Base.

Then, a stinger to remind you that, yes, David Banner is still out there. Save him as the super powered villain of the sequel.

Yeah, that's a pretty good idea.

I think the ending is my only major problem with the film.

[The Morningstar]

I've never understood how people can be confused about the ending?

Absorbing Man tries to absorb all of the gamma radiation from Hulk, and all the other ambient energy in the surrounding area. Hulk has a flash back which re-ignites his rage, his rage keeps fuelling his power, basically making it unlimited. Absorbing Man can't take it all, and along with the airstrike, he presumably overloads from all the energy and dies.

And it had some cool Hulk strength feats like him lifting that ridiculously sized rock. Also the visual of him being dragged through the sky by the lightning is awesome and more creative than anything in TIH.

[CConn]

Oh, I understood it. It was just very existential. And ectoplasmic.

[craigdbfan]

I can definitely appreciate the artistic reasoning for it but it's still very "out there" for what most would expect from a third act of a superhero movie let alone a Hulk film.

Still gutsy that Lee did all of that and it's one of the quirks that I do enjoy about the movie ultimately.

[Kirmit]

My only problem with the ending was the giant memory projector bubble.

[The Morningstar]

I can understand people not liking it, but not understanding it or being confused about it?

I can also understand why some might not like it because it doesn't feature Hulk beating the crap out of someone. But that's why i do like it and think it's one of the best final confrontations in the genre. It's still true to the Hulk character, in that his rage makes his power seemingly endless.

[Kevin Roegele]

Ang Lee's Hulk is nearly ten years old-! Amazing.

At the time, I naively said something like, "In ten years, people will appreciate this movie more."

It's genuinely a good movie. It just isn't a the same kind of movie as Spider-Man, Batman et al.

[S. Grundy]

It's 10-years-old and I still think the Hulk looks better in Lee's film than in TIH. Although Avengers Hulk is looking like he's going to take that prize now.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

I can understand people not liking it, but not understanding it or being confused about it?

I can also understand why some might not like it because it doesn't feature Hulk beating the crap out of someone. But that's why i do like it and think it's one of the best final confrontations in the genre. It's still true to the Hulk character, in that his rage makes his power seemingly endless.

First time I saw it I didnt like it, the ending I mean, but it has grown on me incredibly over the years. It really was an excellent way to show that the Hulk's power is virtually limitless and that no one else but Bruce can handle it.

Originally Posted by Kevin Roegele

Ang Lee's Hulk is nearly ten years old-! Amazing.

At the time, I naively said something like, "In ten years, people will appreciate this movie more."

It's genuinely a good movie. It just isn't a the same kind of movie as Spider-Man, Batman et al.

I think people do appreciate it more now, plenty on here have re-watched it again and actually found themselves enjoying it when they didnt in 2003.

Originally Posted by S. Grundy

It's 10-years-old and I still think the Hulk looks better in Lee's film than in TIH. Although Avengers Hulk is looking like he's going to take that prize now.

The CGI in Ang's movie is still amazing to me, and yes, better than that of the 2008 version.

[Parker Wayne]

I think the only people that appreciate Hulk more are fans. Ang Lee's Hulk is never going to accepted by the General Audience the way TIH was.

[The Morningstar]

TIH didn't seem to be that accepted either though really. I mean, it only made about 10 million more than Ang's. And ticket prices had to have gone up in that 5 years. You could say Ang's movie damaged it's box office, but that would have only effected it's OW. If it was that good a movie the WOM would have helped it recover. Which it didn't.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Parker Wayne

I think the only people that appreciate Hulk more are fans. Ang Lee's Hulk is never going to accepted by the General Audience the way TIH was.

Heh, TIH made a few more bucks than Ang lee's movie.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

TIH didn't seem to be that accepted either though really. I mean, it only made about 10 million more than Ang's. And ticket prices had to have gone up in that 5 years. You could say Ang's movie damaged it's box office, but that would have only effected it's OW. If it was that good a movie the WOM would have helped it recover. Which it didn't.

Not true. Smaller audience and poor release date = less money. TIH came out in June, and had same drops as a normal June movie. X:FC dropped roughly the same rate as TIH, but no one argues that wasn't a liked movie.

[The Morningstar]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

Not true. Smaller audience and poor release date = less money. TIH came out in June, and had same drops as a normal June movie. X:FC dropped roughly the same rate as TIH, but no one argues that wasn't a liked movie.

First Class made 350 million. TIH didn't even make 300 million.

First Class came off the back of Wolverine and X3 (arguably bigger disasters than Hulk). Yet it still did well, because of WOM.

TIH came off the back of Hulk, and did poorly. The only explanation is because it didn't have good WOM.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

First Class made 350 million. TIH didn't even make 300 million.

First Class came off the back of Wolverine and X3 (arguably bigger disasters than Hulk). Yet it still did well, because of WOM.

TIH came off the back of Hulk, and did poorly. The only explanation is because it didn't have good WOM.

The drop rates were the same. XFC did better in foreign markets, hence the higher BO. WOM had nothing to do with it.