The Official Flash Thread - Part 2

[Savage]

I can get behind that. Though I'm not sure about Boomerang's involvement, I can see how the character would be appealing for action sequences.

[Airwings]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Dr. Alchemy and Captain Boomerang.

I don't think you can do the Rogues in an origin movie because they need so much buy in. It needs an Incredibles flavor, as mentioned, but when you do that Incredibles tone in live action you get Scott Pilgrim. Great movies that the general audience 'doesn't get.'

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

You also can't do the Rogues in an origin film because you have personalities to establish, and you're in the middle of establishing a world, powerset and main character that's supposed to be engrossing for the audience. Take too much time away from that to develop your villains and you have a Green Lantern.

Dr. Alchemy as a science chemistry guy who has a friendship with Barry in the comics slides right into the origin quite nicely. We know CSI's don't have tons of weird chemicals, but cutting edge scientists do. Cue lightning.

Captain Boomerang not only requires no real explanation scientifically, but he makes for a pretty cool CSI case, and he can actually challenge the Flash, provided he has enough boomerangs.

I do like the idea of Zoom being behind the ubertech though. For the second movie villain, do a whole squad: Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Weather Wizard, Golden Glider and Pied Piper. Except Golden Glider isn't useless. Then end it off with Zoom, y'know?

Captain Boomerang in the first film, only one villain there.
The second film to have Captain Cold and Heat Wave, as they are each other's opposites.
The third film would have Trickster, Weather Wizard and Mirror Master all working together. Mirror Master only in a small part compared to the others. Like he some guy who gives orders to the other two, and rarely is out in the field himself.
And then we will have a fourth film, where Mirror Master steps forward to be a bigger villain. And Zoom is revealed to be the head behind it all (think Blofeld and S.P.E.C.T.R.E.). And Gorilla Grodd should be there as Zoom's bodyguard (not that he needs anyone, but still)

[metaphysician]

I'm going to have to disagree there. There is no possible way you are going to get the GA to take Captain Boomerang seriously. You'd have better luck using Grodd.

[Savage]

Captain Boomerang could work if you don't call him Captain Boomerang (or maybe call him that once as a joke). I can see a lot of fights involving dodging razor boomerangs and explosive ones. Thing of the scene where Spider-man was dodging the razor pumpkin bombs. Maybe heat seeking boomerangs would work. He cannot work as a main villain, though. He has to work in conjunction with somebody else.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by Savage

Captain Boomerang could work if you don't call him Captain Boomerang (or maybe call him that once as a joke). I can see a lot of fights involving dodging razor boomerangs and explosive ones. Thing of the scene where Spider-man was dodging the razor pumpkin bombs. Maybe heat seeking boomerangs would work. He cannot work as a main villain, though. He has to work in conjunction with somebody else.

Well how powerful would Flash be in the first movie? If Flash can move at the speed of light and do all those speed force tricks he can do in the comics, it would be hard for the GA to buy that Captain Boomerang could pose any sort of threat to Flash. If Flash can move at the speed of light or even close to that speed, he could punch Captain Boomerang a thousand times before he even had the chance to think about throwing a boomerang.

[Savage]

I'm thinking the speed of sound is fine enough for an origin movie. He can hit crazier numbers during the climax or in a sequel or something. I can see a barrage of boomerangs being a threat to him at this speed still. Especially if they're following him and are endangering a crowd.

[TheComicbookKid]

I think the only way to do an origin for the Flash movie would to have his powers be out of control for the majority of the movie and the Rogues taking advantage of it.

The Rogues are established as a problem before he gets his powers and after is kind of an escalation of damage that he can only stop by getting control over the Speed Force.

[Savage]

I always liked that the rogues were regular thugs but because of The Flash's presence and ability to be everywhere at once actually had to evolve methods to commit their crimes and keep safe. It's pretty brilliant and always something I wanted to see done in the movies.

With Batman it was always a coincidence. Like fate had all of these villains show up to challenge him the better he got. All of their origins were these horrible and tragic twists of fate. Flash villains define blue collar. For them it's simple. "I want to rob a bank but they have this pesky speedster problem. I know. I'll use a freeze gun to slow him down." And it's the same deal with the rest of the rogues. There's no tragic lab accidents with these guys. They don't belong in mental institutions. These are guys that would be and were criminals regardless of The Flash's existence. It's the fact that he exists that forces them to adapt.

I hope to see that. Flash really shows the effects of a superhero on a city. The escalation, the adoration (parades and museums and stuff), the psychotic and obsessive fanboys (from the FUTURE no less. Just look at Zoom). I want a Flash series that explores all of these facets.

[TheComicbookKid]

Originally Posted by Savage

I always liked that the rogues were regular thugs but because of The Flash's presence and ability to be everywhere at once actually had to evolve methods to commit their crimes and keep safe. It's pretty brilliant and always something I wanted to see done in the movies.

I like the idea but I'm not sure how to make that a movie where Flash is the most interesting. It's a heist flick, but no one cares to see how they're caught. It's the planning of the crime that interest people.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid

I like the idea but I'm not sure how to make that a movie where Flash is the most interesting. It's a heist flick, but no one cares to see how they're caught. It's the planning of the crime that interest people.

I think something can be made out of that. This group of thugs are hired to steal something but it's never revealed who hires them. They're supplied with the technology to incapacitate The Flash should he get in their way. Movie goes on and they're taken out one by one and it APPEARS that they've failed but maybe someone like Mirror Master managed to escape using a copy or a reflection and gets the object to their benefactor. The benefactor turns out to be Zoom who needs the device for some reason or another.

This is just stuff off the top of my head. In a sequel maybe they can mix the two Zooms (since I doubt Hunter Zolomon will appear in the series if Barry Allen is The Flash) and say that this Zoom needs the device to stabilize himself in the time stream because he has trouble controlling his speed. The movie climaxes with The Flash and Zoom fighting around the world and through time.

This is just me brainstorming off of your heist idea, though.

[TheComicbookKid]

Originally Posted by Savage

I think something can be made out of that. This group of thugs are hired to steal something but it's never revealed who hires them. They're supplied with the technology to incapacitate The Flash should he get in their way. Movie goes on and they're taken out one by one and it APPEARS that they've failed but maybe someone like Mirror Master managed to escape using a copy or a reflection and gets the object to their benefactor. The benefactor turns out to be Zoom who needs the device for some reason or another.

This is just stuff off the top of my head. In a sequel maybe they can mix the two Zooms (since I doubt Hunter Zolomon will appear in the series if Barry Allen is The Flash) and say that this Zoom needs the device to stabilize himself in the time stream because he has trouble controlling his speed. The movie climaxes with The Flash and Zoom fighting around the world and through time.

This is just me brainstorming off of your heist idea, though.

Ha. The heist thing was just me playing off what you said. I'd never thought of doing a Flash movie like a heist flick before you said something.

Still. I've never seen a heist flick, except Thomas Crown which was a romantic thing, where the cops were as interesting as the criminals. This is still supposed to be a Flash movie. A heist flick, by nature, takes it's position behind the criminals as most important.

The Zoom thing is brilliant. Reminds me of the BBC's Sherlock where Moriarty is the consulting criminal as a kind of reverse Sherlock.

[terry78]

It can probably be done in a somewhat tongue in cheek manner in a sense where they're basically genre savvy criminals who do what normal crooks would do when dealing with a guy like Flash, like planning beforehand for something just in case, but still manage to get beat by him.

[TheComicbookKid]

I just know I'd establish them as a kind of anti-Ocean's 11 before Flash exist. Where they don't worry about getting out clean and will leave a calamity in there wake to rob a bank. An entire building becomes unstable because Cold leaves the bottom floors destabilized from an ice bomb type stuff.

[Lord]

I like the idea of them having to evolve their methods to defeat Flash, i think that the first film should be the origin and a villain that evolves his methods, he hasn't beent mentioned yet but maybe Turtle Man? The slowest man in the world

He's smart, he could be a benefactor, or in least serve as a villain with some good gadgets that has the help of captain boomerang or another Flash villain, and in the end it can be discovered that he had a benefactor. This benefactor can become more violent in the 2nd film where he may turn out to be Professor Zoom, with other Flash villains as henchmen, maybe the mirror master could be a good choice.

The 3rd film could be the heist film where Captain Cold uses Zoom's future devices and creates the rogues to steal from a certain bank or the city, maybe my 2nd and 3rd film storylines could be changed with the 2nd film being the heist one and the 3rd one being Captain Zoom's film.

It would be also interesting to have a film about the Flash of two worlds story.

[terry78]

I guess one of the bigger questions would be what exactly is at stake in regards to a final battle? They're just crooks trying to make a living in a sense, not trying to destroy the city or take it over. I don't know if they'd pull a Hancock where the actual antagonist is kind of him having to deal with what he's been given, and maybe just having a bunch of crazies running rampant in the city.

[TheComicbookKid]

Originally Posted by terry78

I guess one of the bigger questions would be what exactly is at stake in regards to a final battle? They're just crooks trying to make a living in a sense, not trying to destroy the city or take it over. I don't know if they'd pull a Hancock where the actual antagonist is kind of him having to deal with what he's been given, and maybe just having a bunch of crazies running rampant in the city.

Or since they had to keep making more elaborate devices to outrun him that final battle is the weapon goes out of control and creates a huge problem that he's never had to deal with. Kind of like Fringe.

[Savage]

I can see that happening with Weather Wizard being in way over his head. His powers are definitely at a level enough to destroy the city. I can see him, Dr. Alchemy, and Zoom being powerful enough to be threats in their own movies.

The way I'd do it is.

1st Film - Origin story of the Flash where a mixup with Dr. Alchemy's chemicals inadvertently lead to Barry Allen becoming the Flash. Dr. Alchemy (Albert Desmond who works as a CSI with Barry) has been committing a series of crimes well before Flash came into existence but he has been working in the lab with Barry to keep him off of his trail. Of course by the end Barry figures out that the only person with access to these kinds of chemicals with the skill to pull off these crimes is his partner.

2nd Film - Flash is a hit. He's cleaned up Keystone City pretty well and even has a parade in his honor. Common thugs have to keep up with him by developing ways to bypass him. Enter the group of Rogues who've been stealing certain pieces in exchange for money and future technology from a mysterious benefactor. In a massive fight with Flash on the street, one of the Rogues' devices go haywire. This could be Weather Wizard, Mirror Master, or Captain Cold. Anybody with a tool that can cause massive destruction if used incorrectly. The rest of the Rogues run off leaving said member and Flash to their own devices seeing it as "business is business". This is how Flash can save the day and The Rogues can deliver the pieces to the benefactor who turns out to be Zoom.

3rd Film - This is where I'd mix Eobard Thawne and Hunter Zolomon. Thawne doesn't use the speed force but instead travels by controlling time. This has left him unstable and unable to properly control his movement through time. He needs the pieces from the previous film and The Flash himself as part of this machine to help stabilize himself. Of course he succeeds, Flash regains his composure, and what results is a great fight at incredible speeds around the world and through time.

Just some thoughts cobbled together on the fly.

[protocida]

Unless they go for the Owen Mercer route and make Captain Boomerang a speedster as well, he's just not believable as a threat to the Flash. And Doctor Alchemy is a sorcerer. I don't think magic has much place in a movie about the Flash. It's better to make him Mister Element, and replace Captain Boomerang with another villain. Maybe Murmur, if you want him to be a case that the Flash is investigating; or Heatwave. Advanced flamethrowers aren't something that's too hard to explain.

[Savage]

Murmur's a good one and Mr. Element was the name I was trying to remember. Dr. Alchemy is just more familiar. You have a point about Boomerang as a speedster but how about having his boomerangs pick up speed the longer they've sustained flight. Boomerang as a speedster just removes the need for the boomerangs altogether. Or other speedster villains for that matter.

[protocida]

Well, in the comics, Mercer was a metahuman speedster. He could run at super-human levels, but nowhere near the Flash and his Speed Force connection.

[Savage]

Oh I know but I was never a fan of it, really. Maybe if they limit it to just throwing things really fast but even that sounds a little ridiculous to me. I wouldn't object to Digger Harkness ending up with Owen Mercer's powers, really, if he can't compete with Flash's speed anyway. Throwing boomerangs at incredible speeds is a neat power to have. I just dig it when his shtick is strictly boomerangs and speed is left to actual speedsters like Flash and Zoom.

[Airwings]

Captain Boomerang can work as a single villain if the writing is good. It all depends on that.
He can be a master mind who tries to outsmart Flash, just like Lex Luthor and Superman.
Boomerang can be there before Barry Allen gets his powers, as someone mentioned. And the police haven't got a chance against his weapons. When Flash enters the scene, he must take the villain down before he does too much damage.
Boomerang might do things to not be facing Flash in a fight. What if he takes the whole city hostage?

If Boomerang really has to work together with another villain, I say Trickster could be the right one. They are both about tricks and gadgets. The question is which one of them who will play second fiddle to the other.

Zoom and Mirror Master have themes that work together in some way too. I see that a plot about time travel and a mirror dimension could work in the same film.

What about Captain Cold, Heat Wave and Weather Wizard? They could all affect the climate and the weather. I think these three can work together in a sequel.

Not more than three villains per film, I say.

[lixdexia]

for me film one should be zoom to help introduce us to all of flash's powers
film two should be the rogues (cold, mirror master, weather wizard, trickster, heatwave, and boomerang)
and film three should be grodd. because by the time you get to the third film a rise of the planet of the apes style invasion would be pretty awesome to see.

[Savage]

That it would.

And Airwings you have a point about certain characters working in conunction with each other. That would be pretty cool. I'd still like to see a team of 5 or 6 rogues in a movie, though. An actual league of villains who band together to face a threat no one villain can would be cool onscreen. Pretty much the premise of The Justice League or The Avengers but evil.

Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Weather Wizard, Trickster, and Heatwave at least with maybe the inclusion of Captain Boomerang in their group.

[gugumugats]

Originally Posted by TheComicbookKid

I like the idea but I'm not sure how to make that a movie where Flash is the most interesting. It's a heist flick, but no one cares to see how they're caught. It's the planning of the crime that interest people.

I would like to see supervillain type heist with the Rogues, but like you said, one of the dilemmas is making the Flash the most interesting character.

One of the ways this could be avoided is highlighting Barry's skill as an investigator. For instance, Barry is investigating a crime scene from the Rogues, and in the midst of Barry investigating and speculating what happened, the movie flashbacks (excuse me for the pun) to show how the Rogues planned and executed the heist. I think it would be cool (but dangerously corny or "clever") to parallel investigation scenes with scenes of the heist planning to showcase Barry's Sherlock skills.