The Official Flash Thread - Part 2

[Edguy]

Please keep away from ridiculous concepts such as Flash running at the speed of light or vibrating himself through stuff/into other dimensions. That makes no sense what-so-ever. He also needs some degree of super strength and obviously high damage resistance.

I'd say him running fast enough to breach the sound barrier would be good for a climax, otherwise keep him (way) beneath the speed of sound.

If you have any understanding of physics, you'd know that that is still very much incredible. At the speed of sound, a 90kg man's kinetic energy is about the same as that of a 14 ton truck moving at 100km/h (~62mph). Just for perspective.

[SlamAdams]

Originally Posted by Edguy

Please keep away from ridiculous concepts such as Flash running at the speed of light or vibrating himself through stuff/into other dimensions. That makes no sense what-so-ever. He also needs some degree of super strength and obviously high damage resistance.

I'd say him running fast enough to breach the sound barrier would be good for a climax, otherwise keep him (way) beneath the speed of sound.

If you have any understanding of physics, you'd know that that is still very much incredible. At the speed of sound, a 90kg man's kinetic energy is about the same as that of a 14 ton truck moving at 100km/h (~62mph). Just for perspective.

The Speed Force has kind of been used as an all-purpose answer to how the DC speedsters ignore what would happen moving at that speed (relative kinetic energy) and how they do sci-fi stuff (vibrating through objects). It's like that scene in Thank You For Smoking. "Thank god we invented the...whatever."

[ChickenScratch]

Originally Posted by Edguy

Please keep away from ridiculous concepts such as Flash running at the speed of light or vibrating himself through stuff/into other dimensions. That makes no sense what-so-ever. He also needs some degree of super strength and obviously high damage resistance.

I'd say him running fast enough to breach the sound barrier would be good for a climax, otherwise keep him (way) beneath the speed of sound.

If you have any understanding of physics, you'd know that that is still very much incredible. At the speed of sound, a 90kg man's kinetic energy is about the same as that of a 14 ton truck moving at 100km/h (~62mph). Just for perspective.

But that pretty much strips him of the speed force. There's a certain point in his run when it's not about muscles anymore, when he's just energy. He moves through objects, travels time, lends and steals motion from objects. All things that they used well in the TV show so I don't see why it's a big deal.

Why de power Flash for his own movie.

[Airwings]

Joseph Mazzello could perhaps be believable as young scientist Barry Allen

[metaphysician]

Originally Posted by Franny

Wouldn't the Mirror Master be a good visual villain for the big screen?

Maybe, but the problem with him is that he's so aggressively silver age. Gadgets that do stuff like trap people inside mirrors, create evil duplicates, and allow him to teleport to any reflective surface? I'm not sure you'd sell the audience on that as super science. Its not just comic book physics, its looney toons physics.

[terry78]

Originally Posted by Edguy

Please keep away from ridiculous concepts such as Flash running at the speed of light or vibrating himself through stuff/into other dimensions. That makes no sense what-so-ever. He also needs some degree of super strength and obviously high damage resistance.

I'd say him running fast enough to breach the sound barrier would be good for a climax, otherwise keep him (way) beneath the speed of sound.

If you have any understanding of physics, you'd know that that is still very much incredible. At the speed of sound, a 90kg man's kinetic energy is about the same as that of a 14 ton truck moving at 100km/h (~62mph). Just for perspective.

Why stop there? Just give him a regular lab coat and have someone throw red paint on him, and he decides to use that as his costume.

[Eddie Dean]

Originally Posted by Edguy

Please keep away from ridiculous concepts such as Flash running at the speed of light or vibrating himself through stuff/into other dimensions. That makes no sense what-so-ever. He also needs some degree of super strength and obviously high damage resistance.

I'd say him running fast enough to breach the sound barrier would be good for a climax, otherwise keep him (way) beneath the speed of sound.

If you have any understanding of physics, you'd know that that is still very much incredible. At the speed of sound, a 90kg man's kinetic energy is about the same as that of a 14 ton truck moving at 100km/h (~62mph). Just for perspective.

It's called suspension of disbelief.

[SlamAdams]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

Maybe, but the problem with him is that he's so aggressively silver age. Gadgets that do stuff like trap people inside mirrors, create evil duplicates, and allow him to teleport to any reflective surface? I'm not sure you'd sell the audience on that as super science. Its not just comic book physics, its looney toons physics.

I like that they are aggressively silver age. Like the way they were portrayed from like Rogue War until the new 52 reboot. It was like they were a-hole modern criminals who decided to dress like classic pulp badguys. I thought it was part of their charm

[The Guard]

Please keep away from ridiculous concepts such as Flash running at the speed of light or vibrating himself through stuff/into other dimensions. That makes no sense what-so-ever. He also needs some degree of super strength and obviously high damage resistance.

So...you don't want any ridiculous "superspeed based" concepts...but you want him to randomly have super strength and invulnerability?

[lixdexia]

Originally Posted by Edguy

Please keep away from ridiculous concepts such as Flash running at the speed of light or vibrating himself through stuff/into other dimensions. That makes no sense what-so-ever. He also needs some degree of super strength and obviously high damage resistance.

this, but the opposite.

[Airwings]

Originally Posted by Edguy

Please keep away from ridiculous concepts such as Flash running at the speed of light or vibrating himself through stuff/into other dimensions. That makes no sense what-so-ever.

You mean he shouldn't have his power set?

Originally Posted by Edguy

I'd say him running fast enough to breach the sound barrier would be good for a climax, otherwise keep him (way) beneath the speed of sound

Just call him The Thunder then.

Originally Posted by Edguy

If you have any understanding of physics, you'd know that that is still very much incredible.

The character contradicts physics just by being The Flash. This is superhero fiction, you know.
Were you assuming the film should be a documentary, while you were writing your post??

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by Edguy

Please keep away from ridiculous concepts such as Flash running at the speed of light or vibrating himself through stuff/into other dimensions. That makes no sense what-so-ever. He also needs some degree of super strength and obviously high damage resistance.

I'd say him running fast enough to breach the sound barrier would be good for a climax, otherwise keep him (way) beneath the speed of sound.

If you have any understanding of physics, you'd know that that is still very much incredible. At the speed of sound, a 90kg man's kinetic energy is about the same as that of a 14 ton truck moving at 100km/h (~62mph). Just for perspective.

The Flash has complete control over his molecular structure and can control his mass/momentum, meaning he can be light as a feather or allow his momentum to have built up so he is incredibly heavy and capable of knocking down a powerful opponent or barricade, like a cannon ball. The Flash already is very slightly stronger than your average person. And he has an aura around him thanks to the "accident" that protects him from burning up or his legs being destroyed as he runs. The Speed Force allows him to do this.

The Speed Force is the get out of jail free card for DC Comics which basically allows The Flash to do anything the writer says he can. It's like saying "pixie dust" makes Peter Pan fly. It's that simple a plot device. Whether Barry Allen taps into it, generates it, whatever, it works for me. So I want to see Flash being Flash when this movie comes out.

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by BH/HHH

What comic are those images from?

First pic: 80s Flash comic...pretty sure some of it is photoshopped though.
Second: Grant Morrison's Animal Man from the 80s (I think it'd be cool if Morrison did an All Star Flash or something....he's a great writer and gets The Flash. Barry Allen is his favorite character he's said, Barry was easily the best written in Final Crisis, not sure why Morrison hasn't done this yet)
Third pic: The Flash in the New 52 (don't remember what issue but I'll try and find out....I have most of them lol)
Fourth pic: somewhere from Geoff Johns Wally West run
Fifth pic: Pretty sure that's a fan image
Sixth: I could be mistaken but I believe that is from an alternate reality issue of The Flash (early 2000s maybe?) or something...not really sure. Just thought it looked cool and helped get my point across.

Hope that helped a little haha.

[BH/HHH]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

First pic: 80s Flash comic...pretty sure some of it is photoshopped though.
Second: Grant Morrison's Animal Man from the 80s (I think it'd be cool if Morrison did an All Star Flash or something....he's a great writer and gets The Flash. Barry Allen is his favorite character he's said, Barry was easily the best written in Final Crisis, not sure why Morrison hasn't done this yet)
Third pic: The Flash in the New 52 (don't remember what issue but I'll try and find out....I have most of them lol)
Fourth pic: somewhere from Geoff Johns Wally West run
Fifth pic: Pretty sure that's a fan image
Sixth: I could be mistaken but I believe that is from an alternate reality issue of The Flash (early 2000s maybe?) or something...not really sure. Just thought it looked cool and helped get my point across.

Hope that helped a little haha.

Definitely did thanks buddy

[Kevin Smith]

Np man

[metaphysician]

Originally Posted by SlamAdams

I like that they are aggressively silver age. Like the way they were portrayed from like Rogue War until the new 52 reboot. It was like they were a-hole modern criminals who decided to dress like classic pulp badguys. I thought it was part of their charm

You misunderstand me, I mean Mirror Master in particular. Most of the rest of the Rogues are fine, give or take their credibility in actually challenging the Flash. Mirror Master has a different problem: he can totally challenge the Flash, its just the audience won't take him seriously because his "tech" does stuff that cannot be justified by even the stretchiest rubber science.

Which is sad, because he *would* be a visually neat and challenging villain. I suspect Abrakadabra would be more viable for the niche.

[metaphysician]

As for Flash's powers, I'd be inclined to stay away from the Speed Force per se, but molecular vibration tricks seem fine. The problem with plot convenient depowering is that, unless you depower the Flash to the point where he's not even recognizable, you'll still have the same problem: everyone else is a statue to him. That's true largely even if he's "merely" mach 1.

[Kevin Smith]

They don't need to explain or go into the speed force until the second or third films, IMO. Saying he has the powers because of the "accident" is enough for the first film.

[Kevin Smith]

Ideas for Flash 2 & 3:

I'd have the Rogues in the movies eventually. Part 2 would feature Captain Cold and the Reverse Flash with an introduction (more of a cameo) to a very young Wally West (10?). I'd also maybe put Jay Garrick in there as a Flash from another dimension, Barry will discover his ability to slip between universes, and yes, also time travel in this one. He will fight Cold at the beginning of the film, and maybe he shows up again at the very end with a plan to bring all the Rogues together (to take on Barry in the third).

The third film (hopefully they will have done a JLA film or two by then, ideally I'd want to have Flash sacrifice himself saving the world in JLA, but just to be safe I'll keep the plans limited only to the individual franchise) will have Barry taking on the Rogues with the help of Kid Flash (maybe Jay stops over to lend a hand), and also the intergalactic threat of the ANTI MONITOR. Barry sacrifices himself to save the universe, running 1000s of times faster than the speed of light, so fast that he moves backwards through all of time itself and he "becomes" a "human thunderbolt", i.e., the lightning that hit himself granting himself superpowers. However, his consciousness resides in the speed force, and it is revealed that he created/generated the speed force the night of the "accident", and the more he runs the more energy he generates, he's its engine, and it "overloads" and hits someone else with his sense of justice similar to his (Wally) to keep itself going. (There is also a "negative" speed force that Thawne will create) Wally will discover all this in future movies, mind you, and there will be a way to bring Barry back eventually, but the big thing at the end of my original Flash trilogy will be that Barry saves the world "becoming" the lightning bolt that hit himself, and Wally becomes the new Flash at the end. Last scene in the movie would be Wally holding The Flash ring/suit. And I had that idea before TDKR haha. But that's the plan.

In the next eventual movie, Jay sticks around to "mentor" Wally a little until he gets on his own. And whatever they decide to do after the original trilogy, whenever they do it, whether it's a tv series or a new trilogy, the story is set up to feature Wally West as The Flash with the original trilogy as the back story. And then that trilogy (the new one) could end with Barry's return and them all living happily ever after. Well, actually, before the REAL Barry returns, preferably in the second film of the new Flash trilogy (5th Flash film), the time travelling Reverse Flash aka Professor Thawne will return and claim himself as Barry Allen and believe that he IS Barry Allen for the bulk of the film, and he will go around doing evil things. This movie will be based on the greatest Wally West story ever written, and that is the Return or Barry Allen arc. At the end Wally will have made peace with the "ghost" of Barry Allen and finally come into his own as The Flash. In the next film, Barry Allen will actually return, and they will both patrol the cities as a family of Flashes. This story could be based off of Flash: Rebirth, where Thawne revives Barry Allen and all that stuff about the "negative" speed force is revealed. Good ****.

^^ That's what I'd do personally. There's just such much potential there ya know?

[Edguy]

Originally Posted by ChickenScratch

But that pretty much strips him of the speed force. There's a certain point in his run when it's not about muscles anymore, when he's just energy. He moves through objects, travels time, lends and steals motion from objects.

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

The Flash has complete control over his molecular structure and can control his mass/momentum, meaning he can be light as a feather or allow his momentum to have built up so he is incredibly heavy and capable of knocking down a powerful opponent or barricade, like a cannon ball. The Flash already is very slightly stronger than your average person. And he has an aura around him thanks to the "accident" that protects him from burning up or his legs being destroyed as he runs. The Speed Force allows him to do this.

That makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Airwings

You mean he shouldn't have his power set?

Just call him The Thunder then.

The character contradicts physics just by being The Flash. This is superhero fiction, you know.
Were you assuming the film should be a documentary, while you were writing your post??

Originally Posted by The Guard

So...you don't want any ridiculous "superspeed based" concepts...but you want him to randomly have super strength and invulnerability?

Originally Posted by ChickenScratch

All things that they used well in the TV show so I don't see why it's a big deal.
Why de power Flash for his own movie.

Superspeed doesn't have to be this physically impossible, bad scifi concept. That stuff was ok fifty years ago, because most people simply didn't know better. But now, no.

I don't see why you think of him running at the speed of sound as a a major de-powering. If you think a little, that's still very fast. If a red object moves past you at 340m/s, it's still going to look like nothing more than a red motion bur. The big problem, bigger than the fact that the speed force and his super-superpowers make no scientific sense, is that the odds that the writer manage to use them without making major plot holes. If the Flash has the ability to move through objects, move at relative velocities, "control every molecule in his body", then he's basically God. perhaps he struggles to control it to that degree, but he's still got the power to destroy the planet. And we, imo, don't need that for a film.

Originally Posted by Eddie Dean

It's called suspension of disbelief.

No, you are wrong. I a fully capable to suspend my disbelief for incredible elements, but they have to make sense. They have to work logically with the film and the universe.

Originally Posted by SlamAdams

The Speed Force has kind of been used as an all-purpose answer to how the DC speedsters ignore what would happen moving at that speed (relative kinetic energy) and how they do sci-fi stuff (vibrating through objects). It's like that scene in Thank You For Smoking. "Thank god we invented the...whatever."

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

The Speed Force is the get out of jail free card for DC Comics which basically allows The Flash to do anything the writer says he can. It's like saying "pixie dust" makes Peter Pan fly. It's that simple a plot device. Whether Barry Allen taps into it, generates it, whatever, it works for me. So I want to see Flash being Flash when this movie comes out.

Uhm, you pretty much put the word HORRIBLE WRITING in my mouth here..

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

They don't need to explain or go into the speed force until the second or third films, IMO. Saying he has the powers because of the "accident" is enough for the first film.

Whil I, obviously, don't think the speed force needs to be involved at all, I very much think they should lampshade the accident. Let the audience's mind fill the gaps.

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by Edguy

That makes no sense.

Have you ever read a Flash comic?

Superspeed doesn't have to be this physically impossible, bad scifi concept. That stuff was ok fifty years ago, because most people simply didn't know better. But now, no.

I don't see why you think of him running at the speed of sound as a a major de-powering. If you think a little, that's still very fast. If a red object moves past you at 340m/s, it's still going to look like nothing more than a red motion bur. The big problem, bigger than the fact that the speed force and his super-superpowers make no scientific sense, is that the odds that the writer manage to use them without making major plot holes. If the Flash has the ability to move through objects, move at relative velocities, "control every molecule in his body", then he's basically God. perhaps he struggles to control it to that degree, but he's still got the power to destroy the planet. And we, imo, don't need that for a film.

Anything is fast to a regular human being. The Flash has to be able to keep up with and hold his own with the likes of Superman, Wonder Woman, and GL. Running at the speed of sound is kind of like..."okay, why do we need this guy here?". He can just pass through ****, even if he does have the "power of a god". He never has to reach that "potential".

Uhm, you pretty much put the word HORRIBLE WRITING in my mouth here..

The goal is to see him doing **** really fast and behaving as he does in the comic books. That is why people will show up to this film. What would you prefer? A three hour arc where he gradually and painfully acquires these abilities through the latest "pseudo science" for "believability sake" that will be proven impossible and obsolete not even ten years from now?

The Flash runs fast. It's not humanly possible. It's never going to be humanly possible to do any of the things he does, no matter what the explanation, whether it's lightning or fairy dust or mongoose blood. It just has to sound like it could make sense. Cosmic rays don't make you turn invisible or stretch. Gama radiation doesn't give you super strength. None of this, none of any super hero stands up to any real scrutiny. The Flash isn't an exception. I don't see it as "horrible writing".

Have you ever been to the GL threads?

[SlamAdams]

Originally Posted by Edguy

No, you are wrong. I a fully capable to suspend my disbelief for incredible elements, but they have to make sense. They have to work logically with the film and the universe.

Then they work whichever way they want it to.

Uhm, you pretty much put the word HORRIBLE WRITING in my mouth here...

Why? Because the reason they have been using for years doesn't match the reason you want to use?

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

Ideas for Flash 2 & 3:

I'd have the Rogues in the movies eventually. Part 2 would feature Captain Cold and the Reverse Flash with an introduction (more of a cameo) to a very young Wally West (10?). I'd also maybe put Jay Garrick in there as a Flash from another dimension, Barry will discover his ability to slip between universes, and yes, also time travel in this one. He will fight Cold at the beginning of the film, and maybe he shows up again at the very end with a plan to bring all the Rogues together (to take on Barry in the third).

The third film (hopefully they will have done a JLA film or two by then, ideally I'd want to have Flash sacrifice himself saving the world in JLA, but just to be safe I'll keep the plans limited only to the individual franchise) will have Barry taking on the Rogues with the help of Kid Flash (maybe Jay stops over to lend a hand), and also the intergalactic threat of the ANTI MONITOR. Barry sacrifices himself to save the universe, running 1000s of times faster than the speed of light, so fast that he moves backwards through all of time itself and he "becomes" a "human thunderbolt", i.e., the lightning that hit himself granting himself superpowers. However, his consciousness resides in the speed force, and it is revealed that he created/generated the speed force the night of the "accident", and the more he runs the more energy he generates, he's its engine, and it "overloads" and hits someone else with his sense of justice similar to his (Wally) to keep itself going. (There is also a "negative" speed force that Thawne will create) Wally will discover all this in future movies, mind you, and there will be a way to bring Barry back eventually, but the big thing at the end of my original Flash trilogy will be that Barry saves the world "becoming" the lightning bolt that hit himself, and Wally becomes the new Flash at the end. Last scene in the movie would be Wally holding The Flash ring/suit. And I had that idea before TDKR haha. But that's the plan.

In the next eventual movie, Jay sticks around to "mentor" Wally a little until he gets on his own. And whatever they decide to do after the original trilogy, whenever they do it, whether it's a tv series or a new trilogy, the story is set up to feature Wally West as The Flash with the original trilogy as the back story. And then that trilogy (the new one) could end with Barry's return and them all living happily ever after. Well, actually, before the REAL Barry returns, preferably in the second film of the new Flash trilogy (5th Flash film), the time travelling Reverse Flash aka Professor Thawne will return and claim himself as Barry Allen and believe that he IS Barry Allen for the bulk of the film, and he will go around doing evil things. This movie will be based on the greatest Wally West story ever written, and that is the Return or Barry Allen arc. At the end Wally will have made peace with the "ghost" of Barry Allen and finally come into his own as The Flash. In the next film, Barry Allen will actually return, and they will both patrol the cities as a family of Flashes. This story could be based off of Flash: Rebirth, where Thawne revives Barry Allen and all that stuff about the "negative" speed force is revealed. Good ****.

^^ That's what I'd do personally. There's just such much potential there ya know?

So much win.

Time travel = yes.

The thing about Barry Allen being the lightning in the accident is so awesome. I can't believe that's not from the comics.

Jay Garrick coming from a previous timeline is smart as well. He can bring some warning or something.

I think the second JL movie should definitely get into time travel / parallel universes etc, all revolving around The Flash.
I definitely think Barry Allen should be the one that saves the day at the end of JLA2.

Or perhaps a reality altering event would be a good way to end the entire JL story (to pave the way for the new one, just like how the comics do it). From a business perspective it can be link the first JL universe story with the next 'rebooted' universe, etc. (perhaps it can even be a cheeky way to account for different actors playing the characters in the rebooted universe. Butterfly effect leads to slightly different genes )

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog

So much win.

Time travel = yes.

The thing about Barry Allen being the lightning in the accident is so awesome. I can't believe that's not from the comics.

Thanks, man! And actually it is from the comics! I'll post it sometime if you like...

Jay Garrick coming from a previous timeline is smart as well. He can bring some warning or something.

Always preferred him being from "Earth 2" than having them all (The Flashes) exist in the same reality. Made more sense to me.

I think the second JL movie should definitely get into time travel / parallel universes etc, all revolving around The Flash.
I definitely think Barry Allen should be the one that saves the day at the end of JLA2.

Or perhaps a reality altering event would be a good way to end the entire JL story (to pave the way for the new one, just like how the comics do it). From a business perspective it can be link the first JL universe story with the next 'rebooted' universe, etc. (perhaps it can even be a cheeky way to account for different actors playing the characters in the rebooted universe. Butterfly effect leads to slightly different genes )

Like Star Trek.

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

Always preferred him being from "Earth 2" than having them all (The Flashes) exist in the same reality. Made more sense to me.

As long as there was some purpose for him time/reality travelling. Perhaps even if it's an alternate universe, it can still be a 'warning'. "in my world, I am the Flash. A, b, c happen, leading to the whatever mass destruction and thus me fleeing, etc. These things will happen in your world too if you don't do x, y, z.". I just think that sort of thing would make for a unique premise in the superhero genre (I might be changing my tune after Xmen Days of Future's Past comes out though..)

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

Like Star Trek.

Or I guess yeah, it's like Star Trek. And Terminator. and...

k, maybe it's not so unique.