The Official WONDER WOMAN Discussion Thread - Part 4

[Mystirious]

Oh my Grodd my girlfriend has bought me a Wonder Woman lunch box today

[CConn]

Originally Posted by Mystirious

Though to be fair I don't think any post crisis Wonder Woman writer was as good as Rucka was. DC never should have kicked him off the series

I did think Hester actually improved on Odyssey a bit. It was still too gory and violent but it did have a talking kitteh and Wonder Woman's love of heavy metal

That was fun

The problem with Hester's writing was that he didn't understand or capture the subtext and underlying meaning of the story like JMS did in his issues. Hester relied much too heavily on stock comic fights and generic plot progression. It just didn't have the level of nuance and intelligence that JMS's issues had.

Not to mention it was probably 2-3 issues longer than it should have been. Which was probably DC's doing.

[Mystirious]

Probably because Flashpoint was going to reboot her again so they didnt want her to go back to her old status quo for a couple of issues and then get rebooted another time

Yep it was very generic and relied to heavily on gore and deaths designed to shock. I didn't like how violent it made Wonder Woman either or the way the plot kept introducing interesting characters just to kill them off or do nothing with them

[CConn]

Originally Posted by Mystirious

Probably because Flashpoint was going to reboot her again so they didnt want her to go back to her old status quo for a couple of issues and then get rebooted another time

Yep it was very generic and relied to heavily on gore and deaths designed to shock. I didn't like how violent it made Wonder Woman either or the way the plot kept introducing interesting characters just to kill them off or do nothing with them

No no, JMS' story wasn't generic at all. You let yourself get too distracted by the violence. It wasn't about that at all. It was 100% about Wonder Woman, her character, and what it means to women in general.

Everything else was just a backdrop to that story.

[Cain]

I liked what Hester did when he got on that arc enough to want to see him on the book post-Odyssey. It was the first time in a long time TBH that I was looking forward to reading the book every month. Not that I'm complaining about what we have now though; I'm enjoying that too but for very different reasons.

[Manic]

Originally Posted by CConn

Eh, I didn't mind all of Simone's stuff being forgotten. It just wasn't anything compared to Ruck's run.

Eh, I think Simone made some pretty decent lemonade out of the lemons she had been handed. She made the whole DMA/Diana Prince thing tolerable by bringing in Etta Candy as her partner, made Tom Tresser seem like a decent love interest for once, redeemed Polly and brought the Amazons home after the disaster that was Amazons Attack, and told some pretty fun Wonder Woman tales without feeling the need to completely reinvent the character.

Then there are her original ideas, like the troop of gorillas living in Diana's house and the Circle. Rise of the Olympian was a dud, but that's probably my only real complaint about her run.

Rucka was good, but Simone still gave Wonder Woman the second best run she's had in the last decade.

[CConn]

That's not the point though. Doing those things is easy. Actually injecting a sense of purpose, meaning and philosophical point to WW is hard. And Simone totally missed that area of the character.

[Manic]

Originally Posted by CConn

That's not the point though. Doing those things is easy. Actually injecting a sense of purpose, meaning and philosophical point to WW is hard. And Simone totally missed that area of the character.

Hey, Simone played to her strengths. I read the lady's work for action/adventure mixed with the odd bit of comedy and some emotional context. Like I said, Simone's run of Wonder Woman was fun. I'd rather see her on the title again than see JMS or Hester miss the point again.

[CConn]

No, JMS at least had a point. It wasn't perfect, but at least it said something about the character.

Simone and Hester lacked all ability to integrate any subtext into their stories.

[Manic]

Yes, JMS had a point. A point I disagreed with. In fact, I remember most WW fans in this thread throwing a fit after reading all of his interviews because he thought everything the character ever stood for was outmoded and unappealing.

I'd still take Simone's run over his.

[CConn]

That's not what I got from Odyssey at all. What I got from reading Odyssey is that, at her core, Wonder Woman is the quintessential archetype for a strong woman. That no matter what her supporting cast and/or surroundings may be, she'll always remain that archetype, and more importantly, her will and sense of truth and righteousness will always overcome any of her foes, no matter how powerful they are, even if they alter reality itself to destroy her, she will endure.

I also found it to house a slight criticism for her ever-changing status quo, which I also enjoyed.

So yeah, I'd take that over generic and forgettable adventure stories that just happen to star WW any day.

[Anubis]

But I thought what JMS was trying to say about the character was completely wrong?

[CConn]

I dunno, that's how I interpreted the story.

I mean, it certainly wasn't the best interpretation of Wnder Woman or anything - he still didn't "get" the character like Marston intended or Morrison talks about - but it at least had some noble intentions.

[Anubis]

I don't know man......

[Mystirious]

Originally Posted by CConn

No no, JMS' story wasn't generic at all. You let yourself get too distracted by the violence. It wasn't about that at all. It was 100% about Wonder Woman, her character, and what it means to women in general.

Everything else was just a backdrop to that story.

Oh I meant I found most of Hester's run generic. Apart from his first issue on the book which I thought was very good

I didn't think JMS' story was generic but at the same time it wasn't for me. I thought it got rid of all the parts of the mythology that I actually liked, the Amazons, Thenyscira, the contest, the gods, Wonder Woman wanting to try and change mans world for the better with words and ideas not just fists stuff like that

It just wasn't my cup of tea personally

For me my top five writers on the comic book are
Marston
Rucka
Simone
Jiminez
Perez

Originally Posted by Manic

Rise of the Olympian was a dud, but that's probably my only real complaint about her run.

Rise of the Olympian was the point where DC editorial really started screwing up the book. She wasn't allowed to use the Rucka versions of th gods so that's why all the neat stuff he'd done with them was forgotten and she was forced to change the ending as well which sucks

And then DC decided to kick her off the series so she had to rush to wrap up plotlines that had barely had time to develop

[CConn]

Originally Posted by Mystirious

Oh I meant I found most of Hester's run generic. Apart from his first issue on the book which I thought was very good

I didn't think JMS' story was generic but at the same time it wasn't for me. I thought it got rid of all the parts of the mythology that I actually liked, the Amazons, Thenyscira, the contest, the gods, Wonder Woman wanting to try and change mans world for the better with words and ideas not just fists stuff like that

It just wasn't my cup of tea personally

For me my top five writers on the comic book are
Marston
Rucka
Simone
Jiminez
Perez

Oh, okay. I got you.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying JMS was one of the great WW writers, but he could've turned in a pretty decent WW story if not for his departure.

[Mystirious]

I think it could have been a really good story if it had been about original characters

But for me personally I thought that JMS removed too much of what made the character interesting/special for it to be a good Wonder Woman story

[TheCorpulent1]

Originally Posted by Mystirious

Rise of the Olympian was the point where DC editorial really started screwing up the book. She wasn't allowed to use the Rucka versions of th gods so that's why all the neat stuff he'd done with them was forgotten and she was forced to change the ending as well which sucks

And then DC decided to kick her off the series so she had to rush to wrap up plotlines that had barely had time to develop

The gods turning all f***ing weird was editorial's doing? Dang, I feel kind of bad for hating on Simone for that so much now.

[Mystirious]

Yep they apparently said Simone had to ignore everything Rucka had done so Athena replacing Zeus, Ares being the new lord of the underworld and the gods adapting and changing their appearance as a result of the world changing and all that other good stuff had to be forgotten

So we got those awful versions instead

And she had to deal with that Amazons Attack and Countdown garbage with the New Gods kidnapping the greek gods, Granny Goodness pretending to be Athena and the Amazons being mind wiped

I feel sorry for Simone. If editorial had let her do whatever she wanted on Wonder Woman her run would have been amazing

But they ruined it by intefering and forcing her to tie her work into into inferior stories like Countdown and all its horrible spin offs

[Manic]

I think she salvaged the aftermath of Amazons Attack pretty well. Part of what made The Circle work was seeing Hippolyta defend Themyscira against an army of Neo-Nazis by herself.

Hippolyta defending Themyscira against an army of Neo-Nazis by herself. I want you all to let that sink in and remember how much potential Simone's run had.

[Mystirious]

The Circle was fun on a bun covered in sauce

I wish that the whole run could have been as good as that first four parter or even better

It could have been as good as Rucka's stories

[Motown Marvel]

marston, rucka, and perez are my favorite WW scribes. marston had the best ideas, but rucka was the best writer.

[Oberon sexton]

Bring back Ares and or Dr.Psycho.
That's all I ask, well that and better art

[Mystirious]

Ares did make a brief appearance a few issues ago but I'm not crazy about his new look right now

I'd love to see more of Diana's classic rogues show up. Dr Poison and Cheetah need to get some love too

Originally Posted by Motown Marvel

marston, rucka, and perez are my favorite WW scribes. marston had the best ideas, but rucka was the best writer.

Those two would be my favourites as well they did the best stories with the character of any writer at DC

[Oberon sexton]

No love for Perez ?