The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > The Avengers > The Avengers Sequels

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-26-2012, 04:25 PM   #501
I'm Venom
Anti-Hero
 
I'm Venom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Burlington, NC
Posts: 1,502
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy
Avengers already sold an absurd amount of tickets without Spidey, and I sincerely doubt that many of the people who did not buy tickets were Spider-Man fans. Adding Spidey to Avengers 2 does not guarantee an increased gross. It does, however, guarantee that Sony would net a large chunk of the profits, without footing a large chunk of the bill.
Regardless of whether you believe Marvel and Sony would be willing to get in bed over rights, it's common sense that it would draw a lot of attention to both properties if Spider-Man was actually in the movie. Now I agree it's likely not going to happen, but it benefits both studios. It wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last time studios have teamed up together.

I'm Venom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:09 PM   #502
cherokeesam
SHIELD Director Coulson
 
cherokeesam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
Posts: 11,460
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
They're already doing that very well, Spidey doesn't offer any better leverage.



For fun. How much box office do you estimate would have been added to Avengers if Spider-Ma had been included? How much box office would have been added to TASM if he had been included? How much money do you think Sony would have asked for from the Avengers take if had been included? Do you think they would have offered any of TASM's take to Marvel? Give me some ballpark numbers for this no-brainer.
Answer: ****loads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
Avengers already sold an absurd amount of tickets without Spidey, and I sincerely doubt that many of the people who did not buy tickets were Spider-Man fans. Adding Spidey to Avengers 2 does not guarantee an increased gross. It does, however, guarantee that Sony would net a large chunk of the profits, without footing a large chunk of the bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
That's looking at the situation from the Disney side: they give Sony a percentage (say, 7%) of whatever the net income from the theatrical and home media sales end up being. Let's say it's about 7% of a billion dollars, $70M. In return, they sell more Spidey merchandise. (Placing Spidey next to IM and Cap on lunchboxes doesn't sell more lunchboxes. What sells more lunchboxes is Spidey, on his own lunchbox, being more relevant. The number of "team" lunchboxes sold would stay roughly flat.)


From the Sony side, the character that you've paid hundreds of millions for is making Disney an extra billion. The movie that you spent a few hundred million on ended up being mostly a marketing tool for a massive Disney movie. You're getting a measly 7% of the profits from a movie that uses a character you spent hundreds of millions on, and years and years establishing. You have to explain to your stockholders why they shouldn't jump ship and invest in Disney.
You seem to be contradicting yourself in these two posts....you say that adding Spidey doesn't guarantee an increased gross, then you say Spidey could add a hypothetical extra billion (!) to Avenger b.o. You say that Sony gets a large chunk of the profits without footing a large chunk of the bill, then you say Sony spent hundreds of millions to get a measly 7% profit. Which is it....?

For the record: I don't care if Spidey ever shows up in an Avengers movie. If he does eventually join the MCU....? Great. If he doesn't...? I'm fine with the world and the characters they *are* populating it with. But it just baffles me that anyone could seriously believe Spidey and the Avengers wouldn't boost each other's box office by eye-popping amounts. They go together like peanut butter and chocolate.

__________________
THE COTTON AVENGERS

...They move like slick cotton on oil.

---Echostation, 3/18/2014
cherokeesam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 06:16 PM   #503
Chewy
REDACTED
 
Chewy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,016
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
You seem to be contradicting yourself in these two posts....you say that adding Spidey doesn't guarantee an increased gross, then you say Spidey could add a hypothetical extra billion (!) to Avenger b.o. You say that Sony gets a large chunk of the profits without footing a large chunk of the bill, then you say Sony spent hundreds of millions to get a measly 7% profit. Which is it....?
That's not remotely what I said...

The billion is just a rough estimate of what Avengers 2's total net profit from the theatrical and home media releases might be, after budget/expenses/theater cut are taken into account

Sony spent hundreds of millions making TASM, setting up the character. I was saying that if he were stuck in TA2, Disney would reap the potential benefits of that set-up (majority of TA2's gross + all merchandising), while Sony would only get a small cut of Avengers. Whereas, from Disney's POV, Sony would be getting a cut of Avengers 2, without helping Disney fund the movie. It's a loss from both perspectives.

Chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 09:35 PM   #504
cherokeesam
SHIELD Director Coulson
 
cherokeesam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
Posts: 11,460
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
That's not remotely what I said...

The billion is just a rough estimate of what Avengers 2's total net profit from the theatrical and home media releases might be, after budget/expenses/theater cut are taken into account

Sony spent hundreds of millions making TASM, setting up the character. I was saying that if he were stuck in TA2, Disney would reap the potential benefits of that set-up (majority of TA2's gross + all merchandising), while Sony would only get a small cut of Avengers. Whereas, from Disney's POV, Sony would be getting a cut of Avengers 2, without helping Disney fund the movie. It's a loss from both perspectives.
But if you're going to point out how much Sony spent to develop Spidey with both Raimi and Webb, then you might as well say that Sony *did* spend a huge chunk of change to "fund" the movie.

Either way, I don't think that's the approach the bean counters would take at either studio. Instead, Sony would look at a Spidey guest stint in an Avengers movie as "free advertising," and would take the $70 million or whatever as a bonus. (Although realistically, they'd probably lobby hard for a bigger cut, or at least get a cut of merch as well as box office.) And Disney would look at it the same way.

Again, Garfield's Spider-Man made substantially more than any solo Marvel Studios movie: TASM grossed $751 million WW, while IM2, the biggest *solo* MS movie, made $623 mil WW. So theoretically, Spidey adds another $128 million to TA2's party. Somehow, I don't think Feige or Disney would regard that as a loss.

__________________
THE COTTON AVENGERS

...They move like slick cotton on oil.

---Echostation, 3/18/2014
cherokeesam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 10:23 PM   #505
Chewy
REDACTED
 
Chewy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,016
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Again, Garfield's Spider-Man made substantially more than any solo Marvel Studios movie: TASM grossed $751 million WW, while IM2, the biggest *solo* MS movie, made $623 mil WW. So theoretically, Spidey adds another $128 million to TA2's party. Somehow, I don't think Feige or Disney would regard that as a loss.
It also made 1/2 of what the Avengers did. I doubt many of the people who watched TASM skipped Avengers before it. So realistically, Spidey adds nothing (BO-wise) to TA2's party. Sony's % is an added cost that doesn't necessarily add to the profit. I don't see how that's anything but a loss.

Anyway, this is all theoretical, and not going to happen, so there's not much point in too much back and forth on the subject. Cheers.

Chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 10:29 PM   #506
Duran Man
The Seventh Stranger
 
Duran Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,275
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

I'd prefer not to see Spider-Man show up in the MCU/The Avengers simply because he's too good to be lumped together with the other heroes. Spidey is at his best when he works alone.

Characters I want to see in Avengers sequels:
Ant-Man
Black Panther
Ms. Marvel

Duran Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 07:21 AM   #507
cherokeesam
SHIELD Director Coulson
 
cherokeesam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
Posts: 11,460
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
It also made 1/2 of what the Avengers did. I doubt many of the people who watched TASM skipped Avengers before it. So realistically, Spidey adds nothing (BO-wise) to TA2's party. Sony's % is an added cost that doesn't necessarily add to the profit. I don't see how that's anything but a loss.

Anyway, this is all theoretical, and not going to happen, so there's not much point in too much back and forth on the subject. Cheers.
Yeah, I *do* agree with you that it will never happen, due mainly to how insane the logistics would be. I just don't agree that neither side would profit from the crossover.

And, like the poster above said, Spidey works best as a loner. I hated like hell to see them throw him into the New Avengers, and he's still a lousy fit for the team. Some characters were not meant to be team players....Spidey is definitely one of them.

__________________
THE COTTON AVENGERS

...They move like slick cotton on oil.

---Echostation, 3/18/2014
cherokeesam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 08:41 AM   #508
DrCosmic
Professor of Power
 
DrCosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 5,662
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Answer: ****loads.

But it just baffles me that anyone could seriously believe Spidey and the Avengers wouldn't boost each other's box office by eye-popping amounts. They go together like peanut butter and chocolate.
A curious metaphor since Peanut Butter outsells Peanut Butter+Chocolate. The problem with your theory is that virtually everyone who went to see TASM went to see Avengers anyway. Do you know anyone who saw TASM but didn't see Avengers? I sure don't. So if there's no people who would be added to Avengers' audience by Spidey's inclusion... where does all this money come from? This is on top of the business stuff that Chewy pointed out, where Disney would feel like it's giving out money for free to Sony.

Now, Sony does stand to profit, and I think ASM would get a boost if people thought he was an MCU Avenger. How much? Not sure, probably 100M, definitely not a billion, but again, I don't think Sony would do it if Disney wanted a cut of the profits.

(Edit: replaced Fox with Sony. Silly Dr.... thx marc)

__________________
WW TV Show Ideas - X-Men TV Show Ideas -
With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science."

Last edited by DrCosmic; 09-27-2012 at 05:19 PM.
DrCosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 09:14 AM   #509
marcvader
Lurker #1
 
marcvader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The MIA
Posts: 8,823
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Sony

__________________
* * *CAPTAIN AMERICA* * *
******THE WINTER SOLDIER******
__________________#1 CBM of 2014____________________
Twitter- @mrpink13
HAIL HYDRA!
marcvader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2012, 09:59 AM   #510
OB12
Side-Kick
 
OB12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,195
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
A curious metaphor since Peanut Butter outsells Peanut Butter+Chocolate. The problem with your theory is that virtually everyone who went to see TASM went to see Avengers anyway. Do you know anyone who saw TASM but didn't see Avengers? I sure don't. So if there's no people who would be added to Avengers' audience by Spidey's inclusion... where does all this money come from? This is on top of the business stuff that Chewy pointed out, where Disney would feel like it's giving out money for free to Fox.

Now, Fox does stand to profit, and I think ASM would get a boost if people thought he was an MCU Avenger. How much? Not sure, probably 100M, definitely not a billion, but again, I don't think Fox would do it if Disney wanted a cut of the profits.
Disney already gets a cut of the profits from TASM and I'd imagine that they don't really care about the movie rights for Spidey. As the article from the previous page indicates, the real money for Spider-Man is in merchandising, so Disney would probably be very willing to boost up TASM franchise if it means a more relevant Spider-Man from a merchandising perspective.

OB12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 09:43 AM   #511
DrCosmic
Professor of Power
 
DrCosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 5,662
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

I guess I don't think that a relatively small boost to TASM would increase the merchandising much. A boost that could be more cheaply gained by a new commercial for all the Spider-Man and Avengers merchandise they already have. I could be wrong though, I don't have the numbers.

__________________
WW TV Show Ideas - X-Men TV Show Ideas -
With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science."
DrCosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 08:00 PM   #512
I'm Venom
Anti-Hero
 
I'm Venom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Burlington, NC
Posts: 1,502
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Fact is people want Spider-Man in Avengers 2; Avengers + Spider-Man = "TAKE ALL MY MONEY" by just about everyone on the planet.


Last edited by I'm Venom; 09-29-2012 at 12:16 AM.
I'm Venom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 10:05 PM   #513
Chewy
REDACTED
 
Chewy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,016
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Avengers was already "TAKE ALL MY MONEY", without Spider-Man. Evidenced by the fact that it took all the money.

Chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 12:15 AM   #514
I'm Venom
Anti-Hero
 
I'm Venom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Burlington, NC
Posts: 1,502
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

A hefty chunk, for sure, but not all.

I'm Venom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 01:37 AM   #515
Spider-Vader
Groot and Branches
 
Spider-Vader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,198
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
This Spidey stuff again.

This is a thread about characters that people want to see in the sequels & you REALLY don't think that people won't want to ask for the biggest Marvel character? I'm just sayin'.

__________________
"Okay...This looks bad."
Spider-Vader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:57 AM   #516
cherokeesam
SHIELD Director Coulson
 
cherokeesam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
Posts: 11,460
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Vader View Post
This is a thread about characters that people want to see in the sequels & you REALLY don't think that people won't want to ask for the biggest Marvel character? I'm just sayin'.
Yep.
Disagree all you want, and discuss the whys and wherefores of Sony and Disney/Marvel's relationship all you want, but Spidey is obviously going to be the most popular character again and again in a thread titled "Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies."

__________________
THE COTTON AVENGERS

...They move like slick cotton on oil.

---Echostation, 3/18/2014
cherokeesam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:53 AM   #517
marcvader
Lurker #1
 
marcvader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The MIA
Posts: 8,823
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

They should change the thread title to "Real Avengers" characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies

__________________
* * *CAPTAIN AMERICA* * *
******THE WINTER SOLDIER******
__________________#1 CBM of 2014____________________
Twitter- @mrpink13
HAIL HYDRA!
marcvader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:56 AM   #518
marcvader
Lurker #1
 
marcvader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The MIA
Posts: 8,823
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm Venom View Post
Fact is people want Spider-Man in Avengers 2; Avengers + Spider-Man = "TAKE ALL MY MONEY" by just about everyone on the planet.
If by people you mean Spidey fanboys then yes I would agree with this.

__________________
* * *CAPTAIN AMERICA* * *
******THE WINTER SOLDIER******
__________________#1 CBM of 2014____________________
Twitter- @mrpink13
HAIL HYDRA!
marcvader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 10:45 AM   #519
I'm Venom
Anti-Hero
 
I'm Venom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Burlington, NC
Posts: 1,502
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcvader
If by people you mean Spidey fanboys then yes I would agree with this.
Because you have higher post count doesn't mean you're right.

I'm Venom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 11:27 AM   #520
KangConquers
Purple Kang, Purple Kang
 
KangConquers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,770
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Before I die?

Ant-Man, Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Vision, Black Panther, Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, Sub-Mariner, Doctor Strange, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Kang / Immortus, Ultron, Masters of Evil, Kree, Skrull, Korvac, Thanos.

Next few years?

Whatever characters on that list work best for the movies they're working on.

__________________
Dream MCU phase 3:

2015: Ant-Man
2016: Thor: Ragnarok, Doctor Strange
2017: Captain America: Secret Empire, Black Panther
2018: The Incredible Hulk: Rise of the Leader, Guardians of the Galaxy: War of Kings
2019: The Inhumans, Avengers: Thanos Imperative
KangConquers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 01:12 PM   #521
Joeyjojo72
Side-Kick
 
Joeyjojo72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,481
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Spidey in the Avengers is not gonna happen. This is probably a good thing, at least for the foreseeable future.

Anyone from Kang's list could work under the right circumstances. lol except Wonder Man. Screw that guy.

Joeyjojo72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 01:20 PM   #522
marcvader
Lurker #1
 
marcvader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The MIA
Posts: 8,823
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Wish I could see this one day

__________________
* * *CAPTAIN AMERICA* * *
******THE WINTER SOLDIER******
__________________#1 CBM of 2014____________________
Twitter- @mrpink13
HAIL HYDRA!
marcvader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 01:44 PM   #523
Chewy
REDACTED
 
Chewy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,016
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Can't abide the Wonder Man hate.

Chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 01:46 PM   #524
KangConquers
Purple Kang, Purple Kang
 
KangConquers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,770
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72 View Post
Spidey in the Avengers is not gonna happen. This is probably a good thing, at least for the foreseeable future.

Anyone from Kang's list could work under the right circumstances. lol except Wonder Man. Screw that guy.
Wonder Man would have to be in a cinematic MOE team imo, as his betrayal is one of the top 3 Masters of Evil moments in Avengers history.

__________________
Dream MCU phase 3:

2015: Ant-Man
2016: Thor: Ragnarok, Doctor Strange
2017: Captain America: Secret Empire, Black Panther
2018: The Incredible Hulk: Rise of the Leader, Guardians of the Galaxy: War of Kings
2019: The Inhumans, Avengers: Thanos Imperative
KangConquers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 03:56 PM   #525
Joeyjojo72
Side-Kick
 
Joeyjojo72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,481
Default Re: Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

no offense Chewy, but somebody had to say it. its like a rule of the interwebs.

Joeyjojo72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.