Characters you'd like to see in future Avengers movies?

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Guys, unless there are people who went to see Spidey that didn't go to see Avengers, then adding him to Avengers does not increase the audience, and thus, doesn't increase revenue... but they'd still have to pay Sony? Bad deal.

People made this argument to justify predicting Avengers WW gross at roughly Iron Man 2 levels. Avengers made nearly $900 M more than Iron Man did. I think after Avengers, that argument is out the window.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

People made this argument to justify predicting Avengers WW gross at roughly Iron Man 2 levels. Avengers made nearly $900 M more than Iron Man did. I think after Avengers, that argument is out the window.

Yeah, the Avengers' box office take was proof that the sum was larger than the whole of its parts. The same would be true of adding box-office gold like Spidey or Wolverine to the franchise --- you'd be generating even more hype than just the audiences that went to see either/both franchises originally.

[OB12]

Also, it would largely be about increasing merchandising revenue for Disney/Marvel. Being able to make x-number of permutations of The Avengers team or a subset of that with TASM visage would be very lucrative.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by cherokeesam

Yeah, the Avengers' box office take was proof that the sum was larger than the whole of its parts. The same would be true of adding box-office gold like Spidey or Wolverine to the franchise --- you'd be generating even more hype than just the audiences that went to see either/both franchises originally.

Assuming they could maintain the quality of the first film, an Avengers movie with Marvel's 6 biggest characters (Spider-Man, Iron Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Captain America and Thor) would be a Titanic beater, and a potential Avatar beater.

Even as an old school Avengers fan, who wants Wolverine (and to a lesser degree, Spider-Man) nowhere near these films, I see the financial potential.

[KangConquers]

Originally Posted by OB12

Also, it would largely be about increasing merchandising revenue for Disney/Marvel. Being able to make x-number of permutations of The Avengers team or a subset of that with TASM visage would be very lucrative.

The bump that the Avengers solo DVD/ Blu-Rays have gotten from the Avengers movie would spread over to Fox and Sony's back catalogs.

Between back catalog films, merchandising bumps, etc. It'd be a veritable license to print money.

[I'm Venom]

If The Amazing Spider-Man takes place after The Avengers, that can explain why there was such an abundance of cranes in mid-town for that scene at the end of TASM. TASM2 is scheduled for 2014 along with Cap2, so we have movies in April and May that provide an opportunity to make references to each other.

[Spider-workman]

Check this out, its a manip I made, hope you guys enjoy it http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...finitygau.jpg/

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

I hope Disney and Sony can at least make a deal for a cameo.

I don't. It will be pushed. I feel like what sam said, it will create a need for more, possibly leading to spidy being an avenger. No no

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

I don't. It will be pushed. I feel like what sam said, it will create a need for more, possibly leading to spidy being an avenger. No no

Come on.

It's Spidey.

That said, I wouldn't want him to be anything other than a cameo. Otherwise, we might end up with this mess that Marvel has had going on in their comics on the big screen.

[Hawkingbird]

*Goes on forum*
*Sees Spidey rights discussion is going on*
*Turns back*

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

Assuming they could maintain the quality of the first film, an Avengers movie with Marvel's 6 biggest characters (Spider-Man, Iron Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Captain America and Thor) would be a Titanic beater, and a potential Avatar beater.

Even as an old school Avengers fan, who wants Wolverine (and to a lesser degree, Spider-Man) nowhere near these films, I see the financial potential.

Although the Hulk's movies haven't been as popular, I think the mere addition of him to the Avengers movie line-up added an extra level of box office clout to the team. He's a long-standing and world-recognised comic book character who has probably had more exposure in the media than Iron Man, Captain America or Thor. Even though IM's movies have been successful, before that he just wasn't as known.

So with Hulk on the team, it wasn't as if it were just heroes (who prior to 2008 were not that known by audiences) who were coming together for an event movie. It was icons from decades before who have filtered into popular culture. So although I don't really want Spider-Man on the team, I can see that if Marvel did own him they would almost certainly put him in the Avengers to add to the box office power. From a financial point of view it just would make sense.

I believe there was a thread before (which I started) on this very topic of whether Spider-Man would be used in the Avengers if Marvel owned him.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

People made this argument to justify predicting Avengers WW gross at roughly Iron Man 2 levels. Avengers made nearly $900 M more than Iron Man did. I think after Avengers, that argument is out the window.

Good point. Maybe it's just that one of the 'parts' was being an event movie though. Regardless, my overall thought is that, however much increase it is or is not, Sony and Marvel Studios couldn't possibly come to an agreement on how much it would be, especially beforehand.

And then Marvel Studios has the added unction to not give as much cash since they're giving away free publicity to Sony's character, and there's definitely no guesstimate for how much Sony will receive extra on the next Spidey movie, and no creative control over it for Marvel. It's a bad deal from their end, afaik.

[OB12]

And then Marvel Studios has the added unction to not give as much cash since they're giving away free publicity to Sony's character, and there's definitely no guesstimate for how much Sony will receive extra on the next Spidey movie, and no creative control over it for Marvel. It's a bad deal from their end, afaik.

Marvel Studios has every incentive to give publicity to Sony's TASM. They have a very real vested interest in the success of the character. They own all of the merchandising, which is HUGE for them. Plus they still make a percentage, albeit probably small like 4-5%, of the box office. Bottom line is Sony is still a struggling production company and Disney/Marvel has several avenues to make money off of TASM. Both parties have something to gain from a partnership.

[DrCosmic]

Not every incentive, as you said a small percentage. Things like merchandising aren't affected much by relatively small changes in TASM's box office. Little kids (merch drivers) that are excited about Spider-Man merch don't get more excited about Spider-Man merch because he's in Avengers, and if they do, Marvel has Spidey-in-Avengers merch for them already. Marvel can much more cheaply advertise new Spidey merch as opposed to marketing TASM, and giving Sony a sizeable cut - again, agreeing that there is an advantage is not enough to write a contract, they have to agree on the amounts involved.

Anything other than box office draw can be more cheaply made off of Spidey through other avenues, and would be more lucratively invested in the Marvel Studios properties.

Again, since you cut that part of the quote out, agreeing that there is some incentive is not enough, Sony and Disney have to agree to some (hundreds of?) millions of dollars that Disney will give to Sony, and then agree on any strings that might be attached as far as name usage, promised story progressions/involvement/etc. It's just not as simple as: "We'll make more money, so cutting a deal is no problem." Because the money won't seem 'right' to both sides.

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by KangConquers

People made this argument to justify predicting Avengers WW gross at roughly Iron Man 2 levels. Avengers made nearly $900 M more than Iron Man did. I think after Avengers, that argument is out the window.

That's a good point, but that sharpens the problem, not that there won't be some improvement, but that agreeing on what that improvement would be is impossible. Sony would be inclined, business-wise, to feel that Avengers would increase another 900M and ask for money based on that. Disney may feel that much of the increase came from being an 'event' movie and having the uniqe 'superheroes come together' marketing, and that Spider-Man won't add more than 100M to their box office. How much money is Disney willing to wager that Avengers success is attributed to 'these heroes coming together' vs 'heroes coming together.' 400M? 500? There's no agreement there.

One might think that IM3, Cap2 and Thor2's box offices will prove that post-Avengers heroes get a big box office push, but how do we, or Disney, know that's not mostly because those movies are just better movies. It's not enough to know there's improvement, without specificity, no deal can be made.

[OB12]

You are assuming that Disney/Marvel don't already have a deal in place. I think they altered their relationship last November when they purchased the merchandising for TASM. Iger was quoted as saying that Sony purchased from Marvel their involvment in TASM films. Now that is fairly vague, but I think they may have made provisions for this type of cooperation. Maybe not.

My perspective is a little different though. I'd just like to see TASM as part of the MCU, not necessarily Spider-Man in Avengers, though I would be OK with a cameo. I don't think they would make this type of moved based on some sort of mathematical equation, thinking adding TASM to the MCU will equal an additional X millions of dollars. They'd do it based on fan anticipation and whether or not Spidey would bring something to story. Would the character make the MCU richer or the stories more fun and exciting? Those are the drivers for something like this.

[DrCosmic]

That's true, I'm assuming that any unannounced deals don't exist. I remember them talking about making a deal, and nothing coming of it, and the whole skyline building thing falling through, so I feel pretty comfortable in that assumption. But if Marvel has sold their involvement with TASM, that actually speaks to a non-cooperation, I think. If Spidey was in the Avengers, for instance, I think they'd want that influence over the TASM films back.

Personally, I don't think I would mind Spidey in an Avengers film at all. While there are many characters that could fill the 'rookie' type role, Spidey would do so most excellently, I think. I certainly don't have anything against Bendis' All-Star Avengers take. And while I'm sure story may be the driver on the front end, it won't happen without an X millions that everyone feels comfortable with, because they're in the business of telling stories, they're not just telling stories.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

*Goes on forum*
*Sees Spidey rights discussion is going on*
*Turns back*

It's all this thread has been for a while now

[jaqua99]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

Come on.

It's Spidey.

That said, I wouldn't want him to be anything other than a cameo. Otherwise, we might end up with this mess that Marvel has had going on in their comics on the big screen.

I don't care that it's Spidey. He's got his own franchise. If it is just a one second cameo, or a reference, okay then. But the avengers movies are about the origins, and clearly they are taking that into consideration. There is NO need for Spidey to be in it, for iconography. Clearly Hulk Thor Cap, and Ironman left a pretty big mark on people

Originally Posted by Hawkingbird

*Goes on forum*
*Sees Spidey rights discussion is going on*
*Turns back*

Seriously. I'd rather talk about other characters who will potentially be avengers, like vision, quick silver, panther, characters that SHOULD appear before Spidy.

[Chewy]

And D-Man

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

[Hawkingbird]

Originally Posted by Chewy

And D-Man

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

May he rest in peace...

[DrCosmic]

Lol.

I do wanna see D-Man just so he can be hated, y'know?

My thoughts on that pic:
She-Hulk - Would like to see
Hercules - Rather not see
Black Widow - Check
Hawkeye - Check
Scarlet Witch - Would like to see in some capacity
Crystal - Sure, why not
Quicksilver - Would like to see
Rick Jones? - Need to see
Namor - Why not, indifferent
Black Panther - I had better see!
Moondragon - Rather not see
Vision - Would like to see
Photon - Would like to see
Darkhawk? - Rather not see
Beast - Love to see, but not possible
Falcon - Check
(a lot of people I don't know)
Tigra - Rather not see
Quasar - Rather not see (prefer Nova/Captain Marvel)
Starfox - Better not see
Black Knight - Rather not see
Julia Carpenter Spider-Woman - Rather not see
Justice - Indifferent
Firestar - Might like to see
Spidey - Might like to see

[I'm Venom]

Originally Posted by jaqua99

I don't care that it's Spidey. He's got his own franchise. If it is just a one second cameo, or a reference, okay then. But the avengers movies are about the origins, and clearly they are taking that into consideration. There is NO need for Spidey to be in it, for iconography. Clearly Hulk Thor Cap, and Ironman left a pretty big mark on people

A cameo of Andrew Garfield in-suit and out would be reinforcement for Sony's own movie - it's the surest way to draw attention. The general reaction to The Amazing Spider-Man wasn't positive.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by DrCosmic

Lol.

I do wanna see D-Man just so he can be hated, y'know?

My thoughts on that pic:
She-Hulk - Would like to see
Hercules - Rather not see
Black Widow - Check
Hawkeye - Check
Scarlet Witch - Would like to see in some capacity
Crystal - Sure, why not
Quicksilver - Would like to see
Rick Jones? - Need to see
Namor - Why not, indifferent
Black Panther - I had better see!
Moondragon - Rather not see
Vision - Would like to see
Photon - Would like to see
Darkhawk? - Rather not see
Beast - Love to see, but not possible
Falcon - Check
(a lot of people I don't know)
Firebird
Living Lightning
Binary (aka Ms. Marvel)
Stingray
Tigra - Rather not see
Sandman
Quasar - Rather not see (prefer Nova/Captain Marvel)
Starfox - Better not see
Sersi
Machine Man
Black Knight - Rather not see
Julia Carpenter Spider-Woman - Rather not see
Rage
Justice - Indifferent
Firestar - Might like to see
Spidey - Might like to see
Swordsman
Silverclaw

roster updates.
This is circa 1990-1992, best I can tell. Crappy era for the Avengers. And Marvel Comics in general.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom

A cameo of Andrew Garfield in-suit and out would be reinforcement for Sony's own movie - it's the surest way to draw attention. The general reaction to The Amazing Spider-Man wasn't positive.

But then casual audiences would think that TAS is part of the MCU and would wonder why he then can't appear in the Avengers with the others as part of the team. A lot of the general audience don't know who owns what, and don't necessarily realise that the Avengers is an actual team. They might just think that Marvel decided to throw all their existing film heroes together into one movie and not that there are specific people who form part of the team. It's just a team up movie to them.