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Old 04-13-2013, 03:56 PM   #451
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

I like the Agent Rogers suit, especially on this storyline, especially since we know he'll be back to classic Cap by Avengers 2. Changing things up is important, and cool.

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Old 04-13-2013, 07:01 PM   #452
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

I wisg we get a pic of the new suit already.

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Old 04-13-2013, 08:22 PM   #453
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

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I like the Agent Rogers suit, especially on this storyline, especially since we know he'll be back to classic Cap by Avengers 2. Changing things up is important, and cool.
Why do you assume he's going to keep changing costumes like some stripper going through several sets a night...? Cap is Cap. He had a goofy costume for the USO shows in WWII; he got the Ultimate WWII costume for CATFA; and then Coulson made an "Ultimate Fan" design for Avengers. He really has no reason to keep changing costumes.

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Old 04-13-2013, 08:57 PM   #454
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

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Why do you assume he's going to keep changing costumes like some stripper going through several sets a night...?
Because the characters change costumes and designs in every movie.

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Old 04-13-2013, 10:21 PM   #455
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Because the characters change costumes and designs in every movie.
Pretty much. And besides, it presents a great opportunity from a marketing standpoint to make some extra cash from merchandise featuring the character's new costumes.

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Old 04-14-2013, 12:24 AM   #456
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

Granted, "because toys" and all that, but when have Hulk or Hawkeye or Nick Fury ever got new costumes? In the movies, I should say....in terms of action figure lines, every character gets tons of costume variants that don't have anything to do with the movies ("Jungle Action Tiger Stripe Camo Batman," "Arctic Strike Spider-Man" etc).

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Old 04-14-2013, 12:26 AM   #457
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

Hulk got a completely different actor, Hawkeye was only fully seen in the Avengers, and Nick Fury is not an Avenger or a hero.

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Old 04-14-2013, 01:04 AM   #458
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

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Hulk got a completely different actor
....who was still green and wore ripped jeans....

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Hawkeye was only fully seen in the Avengers,
....let me know if/when he shows up in his purple loincloth and domino mask....

Quote:
and Nick Fury is not an Avenger or a hero.
....you don't have to be an Avenger to be a superhero. Nick Fury is still a superhero, just as he's always been in the comics.

Also: a haircut doesn't constitute a "costume change" for Black Widow, either, just in case anyone was wondering.

Look, Iron Man's costume changes make sense, because he's continuously upgrading armors and tweaking them for specific missions. Thor's "costume changes" are extremely minor and cosmetic at best; and Cap's represents a 70-year gap. It does not make sense for Cap to keep changing his costume in the 21st century; and in fact, changing from the Avenger design is pretty much insulting to the memory of Coulson, the guy who created the suit.

I think MCU Cap should lose the short-bus helmet because it's never worked in the movies nor even in comic-con cosplay, and it's entirely unnecessary; but otherwise, I hope MS and Feige reconsider keeping the Avenger costume. Cap would do it as a tribute to Coulson.

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Old 04-14-2013, 01:10 AM   #459
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Obviously the Hulk would still be green, he doesn't have to change color for the design to be different; he had a completely different face and hair style. Banner, obviously, was completely different as well. The Hawkeye comment is pretty useless and irrelevant, no offense. In any case, you're picking at straws here with those arguments.

Black Widow's costume was completely different in the Avengers in general, not just her hair cut.

It doesn't have to make sense, the characters will keep changing costumes and designs. It's more than clear after 6 movies of it...****, I'd argue that them not changing costumes actually makes less sense. People don't wear the same outfits everyday in real life. That feels very cartoonish. Furthermore, the people at Marvel realize keeping the characters looking exactly the same in every movie would get extremely stale very quickly. These characters are in at least 2 movies every 3 years.

EDIT: Oh, and also, Nick Fury is hardly a superhero. He's an anti-hero at best. He's not meant to sale gangs of action figures and be a heroic figure like the actual heroes in the movies. Again though, you're grasping at straws. Just because 2-3 characters don't change their designs doesn't change the fact that the 5 marquee characters do. Especially when those characters that didn't change design had very good reason not to.


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Old 04-14-2013, 03:58 AM   #460
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

I don't want to re-hash points I've brought up already, but as a non-comic reader and only as a person that got hooked from the MCU starting I like to think I can bring the general audience view into the forums.

On the topic of Caps new costume being very "Agent Rogers" oriented as many have pointed out, and most seem to be upset about because that isn't Captain America it's just a version of Steve Rogers. From my standpoint, regardless of what Chris Evans is wearing on film he is still Captain America in these films. There's nothing disputing that unless we see for sure in the movie that he's given up the stars and stripes. I know in comics he's essentially a different character, it isn't going to be portrayed like that to the general audience on film, if Chris Evans is there he is Captain America no matter what he is wearing.

On the points of Hulk, Hawkeye, Fury and Widow. As long as Hulk is big and green people aren't going to see him as anything else. Ripped jeans or stretchy purple pants, he's Hulk regardless. He isnt going to need a costume upgrade for toy marketing or anything else, Hulk is Hulk. Hawkeye I can see getting some sort of different costume with the purple and mask, and Widow changing hair style and minor Shield outfit doesn't shout out at me either. but with them being set as a Shield agents already I don't foresee much change in their uniforms on film, unless the Shield uniform changes as well. Same goes for Fury, where as he is a hero in the comics, so far he's only an influential director of shield so nothing needs to be done with him.

I'm satisfied with Caps costume change here, if they're going for "spy-thriller" type movie then a costume with more dark color elements and less 'stars and stripes' to fit the theme. I think he'll also get another costume upgrade in Avengers 2, I think it makes sense to keep upgrading the main stars costumes. (IM,Cap,Thor)


*If none of this makes sense I apologize, I'm very inebriated haha*

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Old 04-14-2013, 04:15 AM   #461
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

It made sense and I agree with all of it.

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Old 04-14-2013, 08:25 AM   #462
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

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Black Widow's costume was completely different in the Avengers in general, not just her hair cut.
Um....what?
Changes in her costume from IM2: (a) the widow symbol was painted red; and (b) she added a second thigh holster. Otherwise, *exactly* the same costume. *Literally.*

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Originally Posted by mkilban2 View Post
I don't want to re-hash points I've brought up already, but as a non-comic reader and only as a person that got hooked from the MCU starting I like to think I can bring the general audience view into the forums.

On the topic of Caps new costume being very "Agent Rogers" oriented as many have pointed out, and most seem to be upset about because that isn't Captain America it's just a version of Steve Rogers. From my standpoint, regardless of what Chris Evans is wearing on film he is still Captain America in these films. There's nothing disputing that unless we see for sure in the movie that he's given up the stars and stripes. I know in comics he's essentially a different character, it isn't going to be portrayed like that to the general audience on film, if Chris Evans is there he is Captain America no matter what he is wearing.

On the points of Hulk, Hawkeye, Fury and Widow. As long as Hulk is big and green people aren't going to see him as anything else. Ripped jeans or stretchy purple pants, he's Hulk regardless. He isnt going to need a costume upgrade for toy marketing or anything else, Hulk is Hulk. Hawkeye I can see getting some sort of different costume with the purple and mask, and Widow changing hair style and minor Shield outfit doesn't shout out at me either. but with them being set as a Shield agents already I don't foresee much change in their uniforms on film, unless the Shield uniform changes as well. Same goes for Fury, where as he is a hero in the comics, so far he's only an influential director of shield so nothing needs to be done with him.

I'm satisfied with Caps costume change here, if they're going for "spy-thriller" type movie then a costume with more dark color elements and less 'stars and stripes' to fit the theme. I think he'll also get another costume upgrade in Avengers 2, I think it makes sense to keep upgrading the main stars costumes. (IM,Cap,Thor)


*If none of this makes sense I apologize, I'm very inebriated haha*
I'm perfectly okay with costume changes that make sense to the story. I can't think of any conceivable reason that Steve Rogers would want or need to change the Avengers uniform to something "fresh 'n' different" in CATWS. If he's going full-fledged SHIELD (which I *seriously* doubt), then they'd give him standard issue field agent gear. If he's retaining his Captain America identity, though, from The Avengers (which I *seriously* believe), then he'd be far more likely to keep the costume Coulson designed for him as a sign of respect for both his fallen comrade and for the nation it represents.

Costume changes are *not* the norm in superhero movies; don't know why some of you are trying to mythologize it otherwise. There are rare exceptions, Iron Man notably, but otherwise, Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Hellboy, The Fantastic Four, Blade and company didn't get noticeable costume changes except during reboots.

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Old 04-14-2013, 09:58 AM   #463
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Um....what?
Changes in her costume from IM2: (a) the widow symbol was painted red; and (b) she added a second thigh holster. Otherwise, *exactly* the same costume. *Literally.*
Iron Man 2:

Avengers:

Plenty of small differences.

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Old 04-14-2013, 11:51 AM   #464
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Why do you assume he's going to keep changing costumes like some stripper going through several sets a night...? Cap is Cap. He had a goofy costume for the USO shows in WWII; he got the Ultimate WWII costume for CATFA; and then Coulson made an "Ultimate Fan" design for Avengers. He really has no reason to keep changing costumes.
Male strippers don't go through several costumes, duh.

Regardless, changing visuals keeps things fresh, helps tell the story and helps merchandizing a lot. There'll always be some storyline reason or other for the change, but that's a direct result of the real world reason. New product (film), new look. It's good business. And they have no reason not to, so... yeah. No assumptions necessary. I could understand your position if he hadn't been through three costumes in two films, pretty much cuz someone in the story felt like coming up with a new design on a whim. But since that's what we've seen from Captain America, noting that the Fantastic Four didn't change costumes seems really irrelevant.

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Old 04-14-2013, 11:07 PM   #465
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

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Male strippers don't go through several costumes, duh.

Regardless, changing visuals keeps things fresh, helps tell the story and helps merchandizing a lot. There'll always be some storyline reason or other for the change, but that's a direct result of the real world reason. New product (film), new look. It's good business. And they have no reason not to, so... yeah. No assumptions necessary. I could understand your position if he hadn't been through three costumes in two films, pretty much cuz someone in the story felt like coming up with a new design on a whim. But since that's what we've seen from Captain America, noting that the Fantastic Four didn't change costumes seems really irrelevant.
Eh, the merchandising excuse is overrated....toy companies are going to come out with dozens of "Jungle Action" and "Arctic Strike" and "Kung Fu Grip" variants of any action figure, regardless of whether or not they actually appear in a movie.

The only changes in Cap's costume came from sensible plot points:

#1) "Star Spangled Man," for USO shows.
#2) "Ultimate WWII Cap," Cap's standard uniform for CATFA.
#3) "Avengers Cap," created lovingly by Coulson for TA1.

These pretty much follow the Ultimate Cap story arc verbatim. Trying to throw a new design in for him just to stay "fresh 'n' stylish" just looks silly. Cap never changed his look for more than half a century in 616. Other than upgrading from kite shield to round shield, the costume he wore all the way up until his "death" after Civil War in 2006 was the same one he wore since 1941.

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Old 04-15-2013, 01:57 AM   #466
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Nah, that's not at all like Ultimate Cap's costume story, aside from they both had a WWII uniform. No Coulson/USO in Ultimate Cap for instance. In the movies, Cap has changed costumes three times for the sensible plot point of: someone wanted to make a suit for Cap. No more reasoning or justification was ever given or needed, nor will any be needed in the future. The stick-to-one suit thing that 616 Cap has doesn't happen on Earth-199999. -shrug-

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Old 04-15-2013, 08:56 AM   #467
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Nah, that's not at all like Ultimate Cap's costume story, aside from they both had a WWII uniform. No Coulson/USO in Ultimate Cap for instance. In the movies, Cap has changed costumes three times for the sensible plot point of: someone wanted to make a suit for Cap. No more reasoning or justification was ever given or needed, nor will any be needed in the future. The stick-to-one suit thing that 616 Cap has doesn't happen on Earth-199999. -shrug-
Yes, it was; and yes, it will.
Cap's costumes in the MCU evolved from specific plot points, as outlined above. If the writers deem it necessary to change the costume to the new Blue Cap/Agent Rogers look as shown in the concept art for CATWS, then they're going to need to justify that.

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Old 04-15-2013, 10:18 AM   #468
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No, there wasn't.
Steve: "I've got some ideas for the suit."
Then we immediately see him in said suit! One line was all that was needed to create a sensible plot point.

Phil: "We made some modifications to the uniform."
Then they have a conversation about why he should wear a suit at all. One line was all that was needed to create a sensible plot point.

They have justified it with a single line of dialogue, because in Cap's case, it's insanely easy, almost as easy as it is for Stark since Cap's suit is technically military issue.

"Since your last suit was so damaged after New York, the boys in R&D have cooked up something new for you, Cap."
OR
"This is a stealth mission, save the bright blue for Stark and the other freaks."
OR
"The latest infantry tech, thermolayer technobabble, integrated blah-blah-blah, kevlar-mail bullet resistant weave... and -deep sniff- oh so breathable."
OR
"Listen. Fury's not in charge now, I am. You wear this suit, or you take your papers and walk. I don't much care which."
OR
"This was another of Coulson's designs. I think he would have wanted you to have it for this mission."
OR... OR... OR...
What one-liner they use this time just depends on which one best underscores the story they're telling. It's relatively easy, as storytelling goes. They keep doing it, it looks like they're doing it again, and I can't see any problem with that at all.

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Old 04-15-2013, 10:30 AM   #469
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No, there wasn't.
Steve: "I've got some ideas for the suit."
Then we immediately see him in said suit! One line was all that was needed to create a sensible plot point.

Phil: "We made some modifications to the uniform."
Then they have a conversation about why he should wear a suit at all. One line was all that was needed to create a sensible plot point.

They have justified it with a single line of dialogue, because in Cap's case, it's insanely easy, almost as easy as it is for Stark since Cap's suit is technically military issue.

"Since your last suit was so damaged after New York, the boys in R&D have cooked up something new for you, Cap."
OR
"This is a stealth mission, save the bright blue for Stark and the other freaks."
OR
"The latest infantry tech, thermolayer technobabble, integrated blah-blah-blah, kevlar-mail bullet resistant weave... and -deep sniff- oh so breathable."
OR
"Listen. Fury's not in charge now, I am. You wear this suit, or you take your papers and walk. I don't much care which."
OR
"This was another of Coulson's designs. I think he would have wanted you to have it for this mission."
OR... OR... OR...
What one-liner they use this time just depends on which one best underscores the story they're telling. It's relatively easy, as storytelling goes. They keep doing it, it looks like they're doing it again, and I can't see any problem with that at all.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:38 AM   #470
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No, there wasn't.
Steve: "I've got some ideas for the suit."
Then we immediately see him in said suit! One line was all that was needed to create a sensible plot point.

Phil: "We made some modifications to the uniform."
Then they have a conversation about why he should wear a suit at all. One line was all that was needed to create a sensible plot point.

They have justified it with a single line of dialogue, because in Cap's case, it's insanely easy, almost as easy as it is for Stark since Cap's suit is technically military issue.

"Since your last suit was so damaged after New York, the boys in R&D have cooked up something new for you, Cap."
OR
"This is a stealth mission, save the bright blue for Stark and the other freaks."
OR
"The latest infantry tech, thermolayer technobabble, integrated blah-blah-blah, kevlar-mail bullet resistant weave... and -deep sniff- oh so breathable."
OR
"Listen. Fury's not in charge now, I am. You wear this suit, or you take your papers and walk. I don't much care which."
OR
"This was another of Coulson's designs. I think he would have wanted you to have it for this mission."
OR... OR... OR...
What one-liner they use this time just depends on which one best underscores the story they're telling. It's relatively easy, as storytelling goes. They keep doing it, it looks like they're doing it again, and I can't see any problem with that at all.
We're arguing *for* the same thing here.
All I want is a legitimate reason to be included as a plot point in the story as to why there would be a costume change for Cap. You and I *both* have stated that the reasons for the previous changes were discussed and made part of the storyline. If they decide to change his costume in CATWS to this ugly-ass blue boredom instead of draping him in the American flag, as usual, then I want there to be a *reason* included in the movie.

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Old 04-15-2013, 12:25 PM   #471
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Is there a reason anyone in the film should see him as not draped int he American Flag? He's still got a field of blue with a star on his chest and stripes elsewhere, just not across his abdomen.

I think we're on the same page, but we disagree about how Cap's suit interacts with the story. I agree it's important, but the character hasn't gone through the whole 'represent what America should be' experience, he's still in the "no one said what we lost," so it makes sense for him to be more subdued in his representation in the story, which means a suit that subdues that more makes sense, and helps tell *this* story better than the striped abdomen. That same kind of suit goes a lot better with a modern political espionage thriller storyline, so now you have synergy, so it doesn't even have to be Cap's idea to change his suit to match his own journey, and on top of that, when he comes back to the the loud pure superhero costume at the end or in Avengers 2, it means a lot more than 'he did in 616.' The audience is invested in the entire journey. It can be beautiful, if they do it right. More beautiful than just doing what's been done because that's what's been done.

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Old 04-15-2013, 01:17 PM   #472
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Is there a reason anyone in the film should see him as not draped int he American Flag? He's still got a field of blue with a star on his chest and stripes elsewhere, just not across his abdomen.

I think we're on the same page, but we disagree about how Cap's suit interacts with the story. I agree it's important, but the character hasn't gone through the whole 'represent what America should be' experience, he's still in the "no one said what we lost," so it makes sense for him to be more subdued in his representation in the story, which means a suit that subdues that more makes sense, and helps tell *this* story better than the striped abdomen. That same kind of suit goes a lot better with a modern political espionage thriller storyline, so now you have synergy, so it doesn't even have to be Cap's idea to change his suit to match his own journey, and on top of that, when he comes back to the the loud pure superhero costume at the end or in Avengers 2, it means a lot more than 'he did in 616.' The audience is invested in the entire journey. It can be beautiful, if they do it right. More beautiful than just doing what's been done because that's what's been done.



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I dunno....maybe that's the angle they're shooting for. Kind of a "Nomad"-era Cap who's disillusioned with modern America and trying to find out what it --- and he --- stands for these days. That would make more sense if this new look is a vigilante/solo act Cap; not so much for a SHIELD-issue, or US military-issue. Personally, I hope he *does* go the Nomad route, and not work for the US/WSC government in *any* capacity yet.

My only question/concern about ditching the Avengers suit is how that could be a disservice to Coulson. As far as we know, Coulson hasn't "returned from the dead" yet and is still presumed a fallen comrade; so I just don't want it to seem that Cap is idly throwing away a suit that (fan b****ing be damned) is a fitting memorial to Coulson's sacrifice.

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Old 04-15-2013, 01:38 PM   #473
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

Completely agree that the main heroes should have costume changes/adjustments in every movie. Personally, I think they should have changes depending on the nature of their mission, even multiple changes mid-movie. Why not?

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Old 04-15-2013, 02:55 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by Joeyjojo72 View Post
Completely agree that the main heroes should have costume changes/adjustments in every movie. Personally, I think they should have changes depending on the nature of their mission, even multiple changes mid-movie. Why not?
Mainly because it's not "the norm." Either for comics, or the movies. Spidey wore the same suit (except for the Symbiote) in all the Raimi movies; Bats' costume changed very little during the Burton era, and the nips that Schumacher added are now legendarily despicable; and Nolan's Batman kept the same costume through three films. There's very few comic book characters that change their look on a regular basis besides Tony Stark (which makes sense because he's a tinkerer who's constantly upgrading his armor) and Janet Van Dyne (who's a fashion designer). Otherwise, the "costume changes" that we get for classic characters represent a 50+ year span, not the paltry 5 years we've had of the MCU.

TLDR: it makes sense to change costumes every few years or so in the comics to "keep it fresh"; not so much in a sequel to a movie that only came out a couple of years ago.

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Old 04-15-2013, 03:10 PM   #475
ctsketch
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Default Re: Update the outfit for next solo film

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Mainly because it's not "the norm." Either for comics, or the movies. Spidey wore the same suit (except for the Symbiote) in all the Raimi movies; Bats' costume changed very little during the Burton era, and the nips that Schumacher added are now legendarily despicable; and Nolan's Batman kept the same costume through three films. There's very few comic book characters that change their look on a regular basis besides Tony Stark (which makes sense because he's a tinkerer who's constantly upgrading his armor) and Janet Van Dyne (who's a fashion designer). Otherwise, the "costume changes" that we get for classic characters represent a 50+ year span, not the paltry 5 years we've had of the MCU.

TLDR: it makes sense to change costumes every few years or so in the comics to "keep it fresh"; not so much in a sequel to a movie that only came out a couple of years ago.
TDK and Batman Begins outfits were different

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