Atheism: Love it or Leave it? - Part 4

[NateHevens]

Originally Posted by 8wid

Then how can you still belief in God? There's overwhelming evidence he doesn't exist. When I left religion and learned for a fact that the Bible couldn't possibly be true I felt like it was my duty to give up something that was intentionally manipulative and deceptive and inform others of what I knew. It was up to them if they believed in it or not.

As an atheist, this statement bugs the hell out of me. Please explain how you can possibly know this, and start by defining God, so I know which version of the God Hypothesis you're talking about.

Seeing as how we don't yet know what caused the Big Bang, there is no evidence either way. Pandeists could be right.

[8wid]

^The Abrahamic God specifically I was talking about. I will give you a few examples of this. The sun and star were not created after the Earth like they are in the book of Genesis like ceiling decorations over a great dome, Jesus is a typical literary tragic figure from the times, there is no evidence that Jews were ever the slaves of the Egyptians, the Book of Revelation is war propaganda demonizing the Roman Empire for destroying the city of Jerusalem in 70AD and not the end of the world, God's personality contradicts his own actions, and there is great evidence to say that Christianity is just the product of the belief at the time that the Pantheon Gods were really multiple manifestations of one deity and the merging of concepts from Roman pagan gods and the Hebrew monotheistic religion became one. The crucifixion of Jesus might also be a direct attempt to defy the creation story of Rome about Romulus and Remus and done to directly defy the Roman principate too as a way of criticizing the Empire. These are just some reasons why contradictions in Gods's word and scientific evidence give insight into why this particular God can't exist.

If you're talking about an entity that became the universe and is thinking all realms of creation into existence I wasn't talking about that one.

[NateHevens]

Originally Posted by 8wid

^The Abrahamic God specifically I was talking about. I will give you a few examples of this. The sun and star were not created after the Earth like they are in the book of Genesis like ceiling decorations over a great dome, Jesus is a typical literary tragic figure from the times, there is no evidence that Jews were ever the slaves of the Egyptians, the Book of Revelation is war propaganda demonizing the Roman Empire for destroying the city of Jerusalem in 70AD and not the end of the world, God's personality contradicts his own actions, and there is great evidence to say that Christianity is just the product of the belief at the time that the Pantheon Gods were really multiple manifestations of one deity and the merging of concepts from Roman pagan gods and the Hebrew monotheistic religion became one. The crucifixion of Jesus might also be a direct attempt to defy the creation story of Rome about Romulus and Remus and done to directly defy the Roman principate too as a way of criticizing the Empire. These are just some reasons why contradictions in Gods's word and scientific evidence give insight into why this particular God can't exist.

If you're talking about an entity that became the universe and is thinking all realms of creation into existence I wasn't talking about that one.

Oh. Okay. Fair enough. I think the next time you say there's overwhelming evidence that God doesn't exist, you should be sure to single out Yahweh, as to avoid confusion.

Also, if you want to prove Yahweh doesn't exist, I can do it much easier for you.

Use his attributes:
Omniscience: if he knows everything, then we have no free will. If we have free will, then he doesn't know everything.

Omnipotence: can he create a being more powerful than himself? This version of the omnipotence paradox is the best because regardless of whether or not the answer is "yes" or "no", it undermines the whole idea of omnipotence.

Omnibenevolence: forget man-made evil. What about natural disasters?

Omnipresence: if he's everywhere, does that mean he's in Hell, too?

Taken all together, Yahweh is quite literally described out of existence.

[larryfilmmaker]

Originally Posted by 8wid

Then how can you still belief in God? There's overwhelming evidence he doesn't exist. When I left religion and learned for a fact that the Bible couldn't possibly be true I felt like it was my duty to give up something that was intentionally manipulative and deceptive and inform others of what I knew. It was up to them if they believed in it or not.

I know what you mean and I struggle to answer it myself. When I'm walking outside and I look around, I feel as though there's something bigger. Now, I don't want to call it the biblical God and I am also fully aware that there's a possibility that I'm wrong. I know that scientifically we know that humans aren't capable of simply accepting the fact that they don't and may never know how something works. They fill in the blanks. So, I'm careful not to let my weakness or anxiety feed me bs feel-good stories. We also know that there have been literally THOUSANDS of religions, each with followers who swear that they have experienced evidence and/or spiritual proof via some sort of miracle or sign that told them that their religion was true. We know how the human brain works and how people believe what they want to believe or what they've been told to believe.

So, I try to keep that stuff in mind. But still, I'd be lying if I said I don't feel as though there's a designer. I just know that I could be 100% wrong.

[Doctor Jones]

Anyone think it's good to not only question religion, but athiesm as well? It's probably the best thing to do. It's healthy for the mind. So instead of just searching for evidence that God doesn't exist, we should be critically thinking and pondering on all our views. So if a Christian raises a good point, it shouldn't be dismissed and deemed incorrect. Because really, neither of us truly know. Now I'm pretty convinced that God doesn't exist in all likelihood, but it's not a bad thing to examine your own views. Questioning is always a good thing, and it's even better when you're not just questioning others, but your own. Critical thinking is really something everyone should do.

[Schlosser85]

I think being absolutely dogmatic about anything is arrogant.

That's why I'm an agnostic.

[Greens]

Originally Posted by Schlosser85

I think being absolutely dogmatic about anything is arrogant.

That's why I'm an agnostic.

I hope you're not saying that atheism = arrogant

[Schlosser85]

I'm saying atheists and Christians who try to ram their beliefs down everyone's throats are equally arrogant and equally obnoxious.

Neither all atheists nor all Christians behave that way.

[larryfilmmaker]

I agree both atheism and religion can be too extreme, but I don't think atheism breeds hatred or tells you to do horrible things. It doesn't. Just because an atheist is a jerk, that doesn't mean atheism had anything to do with it. However, when a wackjob flies a plane into a building or takes part in some Crusades, I think it's fair to say that religion was a direct influence! So yeah, both can be extreme... but I don't think a belief in nothing is in any way able to be linked to a desire to do horrible things to other people. So while both can be annoying, only one actually tells you to surrender your morals to a "higher" power or code and to give yourself to it's will.

[SpaceWay2009]

How many of you here are Atheist, and how many of you are religious? If you do have a religion, what is it?

[Schlosser85]

I vary between considering myself an atheist and an agnostic. I did attend a Free Methodist church for a few months though. Eventually decided it wasn't for me, although the pastor is a very nice and open-minded man.

[Thundercrack85]

Atheist. Religious for a time. Then irreligious. Then took stock (comes with education) of all the damage religion has done to the world (and continues to do, I might add).

[Schlosser85]

It was personal liking of the pastor that kept me there as long as I was (even got baptized). He was refreshingly far removed from the Bible thumping stereotype ( also knew perfectly well I was gay and didn't care whatsoever), but I just couldn't take the religion itself seriously enough to commit to it.

He's a good man who I still think highly of, but religion just isn't for me.

[SpaceWay2009]

To answer my own question, I'm Buddhist.

[childeroland]

Weak agnostic (I still hold out hope).

[enterthemadness]

Originally Posted by SpaceWay2009

How many of you here are Atheist, and how many of you are religious? If you do have a religion, what is it?

I'm religious. I grew up...not religious. I attended church with a friend a few times as a kid. Church a bit with own family. Then few years back, attended a newer Church for about 2 months. Then quit. Still prayed off/on...tried to um...give myself to the Lord and Savior Christ, but...wasn't feeling it days later. No connection. Eventually became Pagan/Neo-Pagan later on. Been one...I dunno...4 or so months? And that I am feeling. I haven't prayed as much lately, but...I will more. It's on the mind.

[Greens]

Originally Posted by SpaceWay2009

To answer my own question, I'm Buddhist.

So.... you meditate or what? I'm never sure what Buddhists do outside of India

Atheist here. I'm pretty sure there's no God. My parents and grandparents aren't religious. I learned about science and religion by myself.

[Thundercrack85]

Buddhism is now most widespread in East Asia, particularly China and Japan (it overlaps with Shintoism). India is mostly Hindu and Muslim, with a very small Buddhist minority. There are actually more Christians than Buddhists in India.

Of course, they don't necessarily consider it a religion. I've met a number of Japanese people who identified themselves as Buddhist, Shintoist, and areligious in one sentence.

[Greens]

I don't like the whole destiny idea. It sounds arrogant, as if we're the most important beings in the entire universe. We're 1/10 of a grain of sand in the desert that is the universe. You live, you do some stuff, you die. Some people do stuff that gets them attention, and they ''live'' past their death. Most of us just go by unnoticed. I'm fine with that.

[SpaceWay2009]

Originally Posted by Greens

So.... you meditate or what? I'm never sure what Buddhists do outside of India

Atheist here. I'm pretty sure there's no God. My parents and grandparents aren't religious. I learned about science and religion by myself.

Buddhism exists not only in India, but throughout eastern Asia. Some don't consider Buddhism as a religion, but instead a way of life or a philosophy. And no, I don't meditate like monks. To sum it up, Buddhists follow the four noble truths and the noble eight-fold path to lead a non-suffering life.

[Thundercrack85]

Originally Posted by Greens

I don't like the whole destiny idea. It sounds arrogant, as if we're the most important beings in the entire universe. We're 1/10 of a grain of sand in the desert that is the universe. You live, you do some stuff, you die. Some people do stuff that gets them attention, and they ''live'' past their death. Most of us just go by unnoticed. I'm fine with that.

Don't you know? God created the entire universe just for us. Though for some reason he made it almost entirely uninhabitable. But, it's the thought that counts.

Though I don't blame humans for wanting to have some kind of purpose. I just get annoyed when they start having delusions of grandeur.

[Thundercrack85]

I can't wait till the aliens land. Then we'll see what religions are made of. Half will collapse the moment the little green man walks out of the saucer. And then they'll ask the little green man who to worship.

[enterthemadness]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85

I can't wait till the aliens land. Then we'll see what religions are made of. Half will collapse the moment the little green man walks out of the saucer. And then they'll ask the little green man who to worship.

Wouldn't Aliens ha--

What if teh Mayans meant Aliens arrive on Dec 22nd 2012?!?! Oh noes...lol.

But no seriously...I'm Pagan, Aliens not converting me to their religion. Not even if they look human and have hot curvy women that are willing...like in BudLight ad.

[NateHevens]

Originally Posted by SpaceWay2009

How many of you here are Atheist, and how many of you are religious? If you do have a religion, what is it?

Agnostic Atheist.

Atheist because I do not believe in higher powers. It's not a question of knowledge, but a question of belief, and I don't have any belief.

Agnostic because, at the end of the day, I don't know. Nobody knows. There are many who claim they know, but they don't. I mean... I'm 100% convinced that Yahweh doesn't exist, but with the exception of the infinite regress problem, how can a person completely rule out, for example, Pandeism? Until we actually know what caused the Big Bang, we should not rule anything out.

Hence you have an argument for not knowing.

So I am an Agnostic Atheist.

[Nevincer]

I'm Atheist, and Agnostic too, but I feel that goes without saying. I'm fine with my lack of belief being defined, but being open minded? Do I really need to spell that out? I'd hope everyone is. I live my life under the assumption there is no god (i.e I'm not toying with the idea in my head that i'm defying some higher being by not ringing my hands together and whispering a prayer every night), but if there was some compelling evidence for a creator it's not like I wouldn't consider it... sure I'd scrutinize said evidence to death but I'm not ruling out anything, I don't know, hence i'm not gnostic.