The "Hoodie" Incident: Controversial? Racist? - Part 2

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

How do you know it was around his waist and his jacket was covering it?

For someone who is looking for facts you sure are making a lot of assumptions and illogical conclusions.

Because Zimmerman had what's called a "concealed carry permit". Key word being concealed. Why would Martin engage him physically if he knew he had a gun? Why would Zimmerman have been hurt at all if his gun was already drawn or not holstered?

What exactly is illogical about carrying a gun in a holster? That's the most logical way to carry a gun. There was nothing illogical about the conclusion I came to. Do you tuck your jacket into your pants when you wear one?

Also, you can see from the video where he's walking through the police department that his jacket is draped below his belt.

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

He didn't know he had a gun because it was dark, it was on his waist, behind his red jacket there was maybe some fog at the time, Venus was in retrograde and there was a dog barking.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

Because Zimmerman had what's called a "concealed carry permit". Why would Martin engage him physically if he knew he had a gun? Why would Zimmerman have been hurt at all if his gun was already drawn or not holstered?

What exactly is illogical about carrying a gun in a holster? That's the most logical way to carry a gun.

Indeed it is but you don't know if he was carrying it that way. That's the point. You're making an assumption.

Just like you're assuming that Martin would act in a certain manner. Humans have a fight or flight instinct. Personally, I would haul ass if I someone with a gun, some people decide to fight back. You weren't there to know either way so you're just assuming everything in Zimmerman's favor.

[roach]

Originally Posted by chaseter

Ohhh that is a good angle for the defense.

well its right up there with the other guesses people are making

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Indeed it is but you don't know if he was carrying it that way. That's the point. You're making an assumption.

No im coming to a conclusion based on what's known about the case. No one would every approach someone if they knew they had a gun. So it's more then fair to say that Zimmerman's gun was concealed.

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Just like you're assuming that Martin would act in a certain manner. Humans have a fight or flight instinct. Personally, I would haul ass if I someone with a gun, some people decide to fight back. You weren't there to know either way so you're just assuming everything in Zimmerman's favor.

No, coming to a conclusion based on common sense and what's known about the case. No one would ever approach someone and physically attack them if they knew they had a gun. There would have been no altercation if Zimmerman's gun was already drawn. "some people decided to fight back.", like who? You could poll 1,000 people everyone of them would say they wouldn't fight someone who had a gun.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

No im coming to a conclusion based on what's known about the case. No one would every approach someone if they knew they had a gun. So it's more then fair to say that Zimmerman's gun was concealed.


No, coming to a conclusion based on common sense and what's known about the case. No one would ever approach someone and physically attack them if they knew they had a gun. There would have been no altercation if Zimmerman's gun was already drawn. "some people decided to fight back.", like who? You could poll 1,000 people everyone of them would say they wouldn't fight someone who had a gun.

Well you're already wrong on this because again, some people do fight back. How many times has a store owner wrestled with an armed robber or a bank teller chased an armed bank robber away? This happens everyday.

[roach]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Well you're already wrong on this because again, some people do fight back. How many times has a store owner wrestled with an armed robber or a bank teller chased an armed bank robber away? This happens everyday.

it never happens...i just polled everyone...Skrulls

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Well you're already wrong on this because again, some people do fight back. How many times has a store owner wrestled with an armed robber or a bank teller chased an armed bank robber away? This happens everyday.

No it doesn't happen everyday and when it does it's two people fighting over the gun. Store clerks do it when they have a gun pointed at them during and there's a foot long counter separating them and the gun. They don't try and fight the purp either they always try and wrestle for the gun and get it pointed away from them immediately. Based on Zimmerman's injuries the altercation wasn't over the gun to begin with.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by roach

it never happens...i just polled everyone...Skrulls

I forgot. You're right.

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

No it doesn't happen everyday and when it does it's two people fighting over the gun. Store clerks do it when they have a gun pointed at them during and there's a foot long counter separating them and the gun. They don't try and fight the purp either they always try and wrestle for the gun and get it pointed away from them immediately. Based on Zimmerman's injuries the altercation wasn't over the gun to begin with.

I'm just going to keep repeating you weren't there and you're assuming things over and over again.

[bullets]

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

No it doesn't happen everyday and when it does it's two people fighting over the gun. Store clerks do it when they have a gun pointed at them during and there's a foot long counter separating them and the gun. They don't try and fight the purp either they always try and wrestle for the gun and get it pointed away from them immediately. Based on Zimmerman's injuries the altercation wasn't over the gun to begin with.

'


Why's that ?

Also a lot of what your saying is based off Zimmerman's account. What about Martin's side of the story.

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by bullets

Why's that ?

Because he had injuries to the back of his head and nose. If you got in a fight with someone and knew they had/were brandishing a gun you would only fight over that. You wouldn't be thinking about anything else except for the thing that could potentially kill you.

Originally Posted by bullets

Also a lot of what your saying is based off Zimmerman's account. What about Martin's side of the story.

Not just Zimmerman's account. The evidence, police statements, what has happened in the legal proceedings so far. What about Martin's side of the story? Martin doesn't have a side. Evidence in his favor? There's not a lot to be had.

[bullets]

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

Because he had injuries to the back of his head and nose. If you got in a fight with someone and knew they had/were brandishing a gun you would only fight over that. You wouldn't be thinking about anything else except for the thing that could potentially kill you.

Probably not but he could of sustained some of these injuries while wrestling with Martin over a gun. I could see him falling back and his head bouncing off the pavement. I don't think that's conclusive enough.

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

Not just Zimmerman's account. The evidence, police statements, what has happened in the legal proceedings so far. What about Martin's side of the story? Martin doesn't have a side. Evidence in his favor? There's not a lot to be had.

Well Martin wasn't armed. I'm saying we don't know the frame of mind martin was in or if he knew Zimmerman was armed.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by bullets

Probably not but he could of sustained some of these injuries while wrestling with Martin over a gun. I could see him falling back and his head bouncing off the pavement. I don't think that's conclusive enough.

Yup, that's what the wounds look like, not like a head that was continually bashed into the concrete like it's being made out to be.

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by bullets

Probably not but he could of sustained some of these injuries while wrestling with Martin over a gun. I could see him falling back and his head bouncing off the pavement. I don't think that's conclusive enough.

How exactly would a struggle over a gun cause that to occur? If you fall back under your own power you instinctively put your arms out or behind you to catch yourself so that's not really possible unless he was pushed which still puts Martin at fault.

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

Yup, that's what the wounds look like, not like a head that was continually bashed into the concrete like it's being made out to be.

What does a wound that's been "continually bashed" look like? No ones ever specified a specific amount and even if Zimmerman did name a specific amount you still wouldn't be able to pin point what kind of injuries he would be looking at.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

How exactly would a struggle over a gun cause that to occur? If you fall back under your own power you instinctively put your arms out or behind you to catch yourself so that's not really possible unless he was pushed which still puts Martin at fault.

Unless you argue that Martin was defending himself from the creepy guy who has been following him for God knows how long. But of course to you, Zimmerman did ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong here. Give him a ****ing medal.

[Scar Predator]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

That doesn't look like a head that was "bashed" into the concrete.

It *might* have been, but the wounds look superficial. They could have been obtained by rolling around on rough ground or by Martin's fingernails. Thy certainly aren't the marks of a brutal beating. It's well known that the skin around the skull is thin and disproportionate amounts of blood can come from shallow cuts.

Another thing about the Zimmerman story that is strange is how, exactly, did Martin go about bashing Zim's head into the ground? Zimmerman doesn't have enough hair for that to be of use to an opponent. Even if Martin used Zimmerman's ears as handles, it would have required both hands for control of the head. That would have made Martin's mount very tenuous.

Zimmerman is clearly heavier than Martin was, and he appears to have equal or greater strength to that of Martin. So I'm very interested to hear Zimmerman explain how Martin supposedly gained such quick control, while inflicting so little facial/head damage to the point where Zimmerman had to use his gun?

[Darthphere]

Obviously Martin had a black belt in Brazilian jiujitsu.

[Scar Predator]

Originally Posted by bullets

Well Martin wasn't armed. I'm saying we don't know the frame of mind martin was in or if he knew Zimmerman was armed.

That's something else that I find troubling about Zimmerman's account. We know Martin initially ran from Zimmerman. We know he called his girlfriend and was on the phone with her prior to the meeting between he and Zim. We know Martin wasn't armed. That doesn't sound like someone who was ready to throw caution to the wind and attack a stranger.

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by roach

How do we know he wasn't a Skrull

That's not funny so stop being @#$%ing ridiculous!

Now if you had said a Durlan...

[roach]

Originally Posted by RockSP

That's not funny so stop being @#$%ing ridiculous!

Now if you had said a Durlan...

sorry I am more of a Marvel guy and not up on the DC races

[Kurosawa]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Obviously Martin had a black belt in Brazilian jiujitsu.

Plus he was a Skrull and all.

Or a Durlan.

[roach]

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

Plus he was a Skrull and all.

Or a Durlan.

and trained by Ras Al Ghul as a member of the League of Shadows

[bullets]

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

How exactly would a struggle over a gun cause that to occur? If you fall back under your own power you instinctively put your arms out or behind you to catch yourself so that's not really possible unless he was pushed which still puts Martin at fault.

It's a little difficult to get into that. Basically if Zimmerman was holding his gun while Martin was trying to wrestle it out of his hand or away from his direction any number of things could have happened. At Zimmerman’s bail hearing, a prosecution detective, who had sworn out the arrest warrant, testified that he couldn’t say who had started the fight.

[KalMart]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Indeed it is but you don't know if he was carrying it that way. That's the point. You're making an assumption.

Just like you're assuming that Martin would act in a certain manner. Humans have a fight or flight instinct. Personally, I would haul ass if I someone with a gun, some people decide to fight back. You weren't there to know either way so you're just assuming everything in Zimmerman's favor.

How else would he be carrying it? And favor has nothing to do with this...sensibly in any situation if someone approached anyone while pointing a gun, of all the ways that someone would react do you really think Martin or anyone would forego fleeing, freezing and pleading etc. to actually confront the carrier physically? The fact that there was a physical altercation, as proven by Zimmerman's injuries, almost guarantees that Martin was not initially made aware of Zimmerman being armed because it was carried concealed.