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Old 05-05-2013, 11:13 PM   #126
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Got just back from seeing the movie, and I was left with one major question: what, exactly, is Killian's connection to the Ten Rings, the terrorist organization that kidnapped Tony in the first film? The Mandarin broadcasts very clearly use a "ten rings" symbol. Was Killian co-opting the symbol of the organization and hoping no one would notice, was Killian involved in Tony's kidnapping in the first film, or did he become involved with the Ten Rings somehow at some point between 2008 and 2012?
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Everything was totally co-opted by Killian. By the time he started doing that, the real Ten Rings was already defunct, or at least defeated. Raza was their leader, and he was (implicitly) killed in IM1. Killian needed something to blame his 'sploding soldiers on, and figured suicide bombers was a likely scenario that paranoid Americans could easily buy into. So he co-opted their name and their organization, and invented a new leader for them.

But no, there is no evidence in the IM movies that Killian ever had any ties to the real Ten Rings organization, or that they still continued to actually exist post-IM1. (There's an official comic book that's a sequel to IM1/prequel to IM2 that actually defines that, if you need a canonical stamp of approval.)

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:41 AM   #127
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

I loved Pearce as always, and back from a second viewing, he really did do a fantastic job. He seemed like Justin Hammer's cooler, smarter, and more powerful angry older brother.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:00 AM   #128
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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I loved Pearce as always, and back from a second viewing, he really did do a fantastic job. He seemed like Justin Hammer's cooler, smarter, and more powerful angry older brother.
I loved his range in this, he played a funny dorky guy, then the suave scientist, and then the insane scary guy in the end. All parts were fantastic imo.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:07 AM   #129
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Everything was totally co-opted by Killian. By the time he started doing that, the real Ten Rings was already defunct, or at least defeated. Raza was their leader, and he was (implicitly) killed in IM1. Killian needed something to blame his 'sploding soldiers on, and figured suicide bombers was a likely scenario that paranoid Americans could easily buy into. So he co-opted their name and their organization, and invented a new leader for them.
That's your own personal interpretation of things, and is in fact contradicted by Marvel' s official take on things.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:56 AM   #130
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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I loved Pearce as always, and back from a second viewing, he really did do a fantastic job. He seemed like Justin Hammer's cooler, smarter, and more powerful angry older brother.
Yeah, Killian did make Hammer feel a bit needless. It's a shame Hammer was so toothless in IM2 because he was an interesting character and portrayed well (I thought). It's just a shame his part sort of fizzled out.

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:34 AM   #131
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

Since Killian is dead, who will they put in charge of AIM?

I mean AIM is a well known organization in the comics, it would be a shame to just have it come in go in one movie.

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:56 AM   #132
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

They got plenty of characters to choose from. Baron Strucker is one, tweak the origin a bit to bring him into the present, and maybe still tie him to HYDRA in some fashion.

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Old 05-07-2013, 05:32 AM   #133
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

Particularly in the flashback scenes, I thought Pearce was fantastic in this film.

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Old 05-07-2013, 05:34 AM   #134
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Yeah, Killian did make Hammer feel a bit needless. It's a shame Hammer was so toothless in IM2 because he was an interesting character and portrayed well (I thought). It's just a shame his part sort of fizzled out.
Hammer was included pretty much for the sole sake of having Sam Rockwell in the film. Have you listened to the IM2 commentary? The character was added very late as they were looking to work Rockwell into the film.

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Old 05-07-2013, 07:34 AM   #135
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Since Killian is dead, who will they put in charge of AIM?

I mean AIM is a well known organization in the comics, it would be a shame to just have it come in go in one movie.
A new Scientist Supreme maybe? Though Killian may not have been said to be one, he did form AIM and if Marvel intend on using the organisation again (which would be nice and please fans) then they could always find a new guy to head them up.


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Hammer was included pretty much for the sole sake of having Sam Rockwell in the film. Have you listened to the IM2 commentary? The character was added very late as they were looking to work Rockwell into the film.
Not yet. I do own the Blu ray so I'll probably get round to it.

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Old 05-07-2013, 10:07 AM   #136
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Yeah, Killian did make Hammer feel a bit needless. It's a shame Hammer was so toothless in IM2 because he was an interesting character and portrayed well (I thought). It's just a shame his part sort of fizzled out.
What really drove me nuts, was how he was just gone. Like that. I love IM3, but a simple bringing him up wouldn't hurt, like Tony making a quip about him being in jail or something. I chalk that up to Shane Black not liking Iron Man 2.

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I loved his range in this, he played a funny dorky guy, then the suave scientist, and then the insane scary guy in the end. All parts were fantastic imo.

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Old 05-07-2013, 10:20 AM   #137
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Everything was totally co-opted by Killian. By the time he started doing that, the real Ten Rings was already defunct, or at least defeated. Raza was their leader, and he was (implicitly) killed in IM1. Killian needed something to blame his 'sploding soldiers on, and figured suicide bombers was a likely scenario that paranoid Americans could easily buy into. So he co-opted their name and their organization, and invented a new leader for them.

But no, there is no evidence in the IM movies that Killian ever had any ties to the real Ten Rings organization, or that they still continued to actually exist post-IM1. (There's an official comic book that's a sequel to IM1/prequel to IM2 that actually defines that, if you need a canonical stamp of approval.)
How and when was Raza killed from IM1? Last we saw him Stane only used his temporary paralysis device on him, but didn't kill him. Not to mention, the 10 rings was pretty wide spread in IM1, not just the small group that got shot in that scene.

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Old 05-07-2013, 10:23 AM   #138
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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How and when was Raza killed from IM1? Last we saw him Stane only used his temporary paralysis device on him, but didn't kill him. Not to mention, the 10 rings was pretty wide spread in IM1, not just the small group that got shot in that scene.
Presumably since Stane had all the Ten Rings people shot outside the tent, Raza was also going to be shot, too. Stane did say to him "The paralysis is only temporary. But that's the least of your problems". Obviously Raza's problem is he's going to be killed momentarily.

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Old 05-07-2013, 10:25 AM   #139
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Presumably since Stane had all the Ten Rings people shot outside the tent, Raza was also going to be shot, too. Stane did say to him "The paralysis is only temporary. But that's the least of your problems". Obviously Raza's problem is he's going to be killed momentarily.
I didn't get that at all, and even if so, again, the 10 rings terror group in IM1 was far more than just those who got shot in that scene...

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Old 05-07-2013, 10:30 AM   #140
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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I didn't get that at all, and even if so, again, the 10 rings terror group in IM1 was far more than just those who got shot in that scene...
But how do you know that? How do you know they were not concentrated at that camp? Why would Stane bother to kill them all if he wasn't trying to remove any witnesses or loose ends? If there was more of them out there they could easily seek retribution against Stane for that.

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:05 AM   #141
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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But how do you know that? How do you know they were not concentrated at that camp? Why would Stane bother to kill them all if he wasn't trying to remove any witnesses or loose ends? If there was more of them out there they could easily seek retribution against Stane for that.
There are Ten Rings members in IM2. So they clearly weren't all killed.

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:06 AM   #142
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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There are Ten Rings members in IM2. So they clearly weren't all killed.
And they are?

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:08 AM   #143
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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And they are?
in the DVD the person that gives Vanko papers is identified as a 10 rings operative

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:10 AM   #144
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in the DVD the person that gives Vanko papers is identified as a 10 rings operative
It's a deleted scene, isn't it? Was that in the movie?

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:12 AM   #145
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

Killian is probably one of my favorite Marvel villains (next to Loki of course.)

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:14 AM   #146
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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That's your own personal interpretation of things, and is in fact contradicted by Marvel' s official take on things.
"Official" is a damn bold word to be using there. For right now, it's still speculation. But yes, now that I've heard that the Ten Rings still exist in an obscure prequel comic to IM3 that is considered canon by the studio (although they don't bother to reference in the movie any of the characters, events, or plotlines in said comic at all), I agree now that Killian didn't just appropriate the trappings of a dead group, but does, in fact, have much deeper and longer ties to a terrorist cell that is still very much operational.

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:25 AM   #147
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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It's a deleted scene, isn't it? Was that in the movie?
If I recall right they may only be identified as such in a deleted scene (and possibly the credits), but that's what they are intended to be.

Also with Killian in IM3 explaining his plans for Extremis ('supply and demand') I think it's safe to say that the Ten Rings were still out there doing business for the Mandarin, but without knowing they were really working for AIM.

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:28 AM   #148
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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"Official" is a damn bold word to be using there. For right now, it's still speculation. But yes, now that I've heard that the Ten Rings still exist in an obscure prequel comic to IM3 that is considered canon by the studio (although they don't bother to reference in the movie any of the characters, events, or plotlines in said comic at all), I agree now that Killian didn't just appropriate the trappings of a dead group, but does, in fact, have much deeper and longer ties to a terrorist cell that is still very much operational.
There's an in-depth Entertainment Weekly article that lays out the background on the way The Mandarin was handled and more or less makes it clear that Marvel's official position on things is that Killian had in fact been 'pulling strings', as it were, for basically the entirety of the IM Trilogy. This isn't explicitly said in the article, but you can tell based on the way Feige lays things out as presented in the article that such is the case. This is also bolstered by the aforementioned Prelude comic.

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:33 AM   #149
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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It's a deleted scene, isn't it? Was that in the movie?
No, it's a featurette. where they explain different scenes

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:38 AM   #150
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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There's an in-depth Entertainment Weekly article that lays out the background on the way The Mandarin was handled and more or less makes it clear that Marvel's official position on things is that Killian had in fact been 'pulling strings', as it were, for basically the entirety of the IM Trilogy. This isn't explicitly said in the article, but you can tell based on the way Feige lays things out as presented in the article that such is the case. This is also bolstered by the aforementioned Prelude comic.
Still, all that begs the question: when did "The Mandarin" (the decoy) come into existence? Had to be after IM1 and IM2, or else Tony and SHIELD would have been talking about Ten Rings having a mastermind. IM3 seems to imply that this "Mandarin" has come out of nowhere and started sending the videotapes to the media in very recent times.

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