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Old 05-07-2013, 11:38 AM   #151
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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It's a deleted scene, isn't it? Was that in the movie?
It's in the film proper. The guy that gives Vanko what he needs to get to Monaco is intended to be an operative. This is confirmed in the commentary track.

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:43 AM   #152
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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No, it's a featurette. where they explain different scenes
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Originally Posted by The Infernal View Post
If I recall right they may only be identified as such in a deleted scene (and possibly the credits), but that's what they are intended to be.
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It's in the film proper. The guy that gives Vanko what he needs to get to Monaco is intended to be an operative. This is confirmed in the commentary track.
Alright, I'm getting a little confused...

Is there anything in the film, not deleted scenes or featurettes, that makes it clear that, quote "There are Ten Rings members in IM2"?

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:43 AM   #153
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

If they move forward with MoE in Avengers 2, I'd very much like Mandarin (Killian) back. They never made it clear he was dead, especially since the final blow's explosion was just as big as the one from blowing the Mk 42. I'd like to hear more backstory on him and his possible connection to the Ten Rings. Not to mention, those craving magic space rings could certainly find a way to work it in there, not that I care whether they do or not.

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:51 AM   #154
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Originally Posted by Norek View Post
Alright, I'm getting a little confused...

Is there anything in the film, not deleted scenes or featurettes, that makes it clear that, quote "There are Ten Rings members in IM2"?
Oh just disregard my one. I did say "if I recall right", which I clearly didn't lol. In the film itself it won't spell it out, but there are features like the commentary which will point out the Ten Rings member in IM2. So it was there, just not as an overt presence.


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If they move forward with MoE in Avengers 2, I'd very much like Mandarin (Killian) back. They never made it clear he was dead, especially since the final blow's explosion was just as big as the one from blowing the Mk 42. I'd like to hear more backstory on him and his possible connection to the Ten Rings. Not to mention, those craving magic space rings could certainly find a way to work it in there, not that I care whether they do or not.
I don't know. Pearce doesn't seem like he'd jump at the chance to return. If the story was right and he was willing, then I would like to see him do so.

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Old 05-07-2013, 11:53 AM   #155
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Originally Posted by Norek View Post
Alright, I'm getting a little confused...

Is there anything in the film, not deleted scenes or featurettes, that makes it clear that, quote "There are Ten Rings members in IM2"?
I can't remember if the guy that gave Vanko the falsified paperwork to get to Monaco had any distinguishing characteristics in the film that immediately identify him as a Ten Rings operative, but he is intended to be one. He's the shady guy that Vanko meets up with prior to the race in Monaco. I think Favreau mentions the connection in the commentary track around that point in the film.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:23 PM   #156
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Alright, I'm getting a little confused...

Is there anything in the film, not deleted scenes or featurettes, that makes it clear that, quote "There are Ten Rings members in IM2"?
No, there isn't. Not a thing. The audience watching IM2 would have no clue that guy had anything to do with the Ten Rings.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:28 PM   #157
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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No, there isn't. Not a thing. The audience watching IM2 would have no clue that guy had anything to do with the Ten Rings.
To be fair, the audience watching Iron Man 2 would have no idea that Mickey Rourke was playing Whiplash. He isn't referred to as such and is credited as Ivan Vanko. It doesn't change the fact that he was intended to be Whiplash.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:32 PM   #158
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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To be fair, the audience watching Iron Man 2 would have no idea that Mickey Rourke was playing Whiplash. He isn't referred to as such and is credited as Ivan Vanko. It doesn't change the fact that he was intended to be Whiplash.
That's different. That's just a comic book alias. We're talking about in this movie universe you would have no idea that guy who met with Vanko was affiliated with the terrorist organization from IM1.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:36 PM   #159
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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No, there isn't. Not a thing. The audience watching IM2 would have no clue that guy had anything to do with the Ten Rings.
Thanks for clarifying. Well, I don't think a deleted scene or a featurette should be required to understand plot points or even small stuff like that, so if it's not made clear in the film itself, it's vague. Saying "There are 10 Ring members in IM2" is a moot point.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:37 PM   #160
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

It stands to reason that the shady guy helping Vanko get revenge on Stark would also be somebody who wanted revenge on Stark.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:38 PM   #161
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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That's different. That's just a comic book alias. We're talking about in this movie universe you would have no idea that guy who met with Vanko was affiliated with the terrorist organization from IM1.
Because it's not important to the overall plot. It's an easter egg of sorts that points to Mandarin. It doesn't matter if you want to acknowledge it or not, it was there.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:39 PM   #162
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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That's different. That's just a comic book alias. We're talking about in this movie universe you would have no idea that guy who met with Vanko was affiliated with the terrorist organization from IM1.
Does that ultimately matter in the long run? The Dark Knight Trilogy was bookended and unified by themes, characters, and organizations introduced in Batman Begins but weren't overtly present in The Dark Knight.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:41 PM   #163
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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^ Does that ultimately matter in the long run? The Dark Knight Trilogy was bookended and unified by themes, characters, and organizations introduced in Batman Begins, but weren't overtly present in The Dark Knight.
Not really, no. It fills in a bit of the history, but largely just a bit of backstory.


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Thanks for clarifying. Well, I don't think a deleted scene or a featurette should be required to understand plot points or even small stuff like that, so if it's not made clear in the film itself, it's vague. Saying "There are 10 Ring members in IM2" is a moot point.
Not if you're trying to say the IM1 Ten Rings members that were all killed were the only members of the group.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:55 PM   #164
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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It stands to reason that the shady guy helping Vanko get revenge on Stark would also be somebody who wanted revenge on Stark.
Why do you say that? The guy could have just been well paid to get Vanko a phony passport and a Monaco ticket. That's how the movie presented it.

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Because it's not important to the overall plot. It's an easter egg of sorts that points to Mandarin. It doesn't matter if you want to acknowledge it or not, it was there.
It wasn't there. Not visually or verbally. You have to be told by the director on the special features.

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Does that ultimately matter in the long run? The Dark Knight Trilogy was bookended and unified by themes, characters, and organizations introduced in Batman Begins but weren't overtly present in The Dark Knight.
What are you talking about? Nothing presented in the TDK trilogy needed to be pointed out on the special features like this. Everything can easily be identified visually or verbally. You don't need to find out that a random character who appeared for 5 seconds had something to do with villains from the first movie because otherwise you would have no clue about that watching the scene.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:06 PM   #165
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

^ TDKR is, for all intents and purposes, a direct sequel - thematically and in terms of character usage - to Batman Begins despite being the third film in the trilogy and following on from The Dark Knight, which was largely devoid of the thematic and character usage elements that are featured in TDKR and that are a direct callback to BB, but that doesn't make TDKR any less of a sequel to TDK even though it features a much more heavy emphasis on character usage and thematic elements that were last seen in BB.

Even though the Ten Rings presence in IM2 might largely go unnoticed, I don't think it matters in the long run because, noticeable in IM2 proper or not, one of the points of the IM Trilogy is that the Ten Rings, and, by extension, Killian, is a recurring antagonist force in Tony's life in one form or or another.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:17 PM   #166
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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It wasn't there. Not visually or verbally. You have to be told by the director on the special features.
You chose not to acknowledge it. That's fine if that's your personal interpretation, but the director has said differently. You can say "it doesn't count" all you like, but I'd rather take the word of the director over some random guy on a message board.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:17 PM   #167
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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^ TDKR is, for all intents and purposes, a direct sequel - thematically and in terms of character usage - to Batman Begins despite being the third film in the trilogy and following on from The Dark Knight, which was largely devoid of the thematic and character usage elements that are featured in TDKR and that are a direct callback to BB, but that doesn't make TDKR any less of a sequel to TDK even though it features a much more heavy emphasis on character usage and thematic elements that were last seen in BB.
Apples and oranges. The Ten Rings were not mentioned AT ALL in Iron Man 3. Only their symbol was. There no verbal reference to these guys being the ones involved in what happened with Tony in IM1, or working with Stane etc.

Not a whisper. Whereas TDKR talks heavily about it's link to the villain of Batman Begins, Ra's Al Ghul. It also talks heavily about Harvey Dent, and all the repercussions because of him and what Joker did to him, the cover up etc weigh heavily on TDKR, too.

That's why TDKR is better. It feels like a real trilogy because it takes a lot of things from both previous movies and ties them together as one complete story. It doesn't rely on Chris Nolan telling us something we should know just by watching the movie on a special feature.

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Even though the Ten Rings presence in IM2 might largely go unnoticed, I don't think it matters in the long run because, noticeable in IM2 proper or not, one of the points of the IM Trilogy is that the Ten Rings, and, by extension, Killian, is a recurring antagonist force in Tony's life in one form or or another.
But that's just it, it's not a running theme in the trilogy because nobody would have a clue they were in IM2. A theme is noticeable. In this case it's not.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:19 PM   #168
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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You chose not to acknowledge it.
I chose to acknowledge it the way the movie presented it. It didn't present someone who was affiliated with the Ten Rings. Unless you can show me a screencap or quote me a line from the movie that shows otherwise.

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That's fine if that's your personal interpretation, but the director has said differently. You can say "it doesn't count" all you like, but I'd rather take the word of the director over some random guy on a message board.
To quote you, that's fine if that's your personal interpretation of it.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:29 PM   #169
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

Nevermind. This is just going in circles. I'm just repeating myself at this point.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:33 PM   #170
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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That's fine if that's what you chose to believe. But it's different thing when you try to pass that off as fact to others.
What I am saying is a fact. Nobody would have a clue that guy who met with Vanko is a Ten Rings member. How could they? There is no indications to it at all.

I never denied Favreau said it on the special features. That's the problem. If he had not said it then nobody would have a clue. Ergo the movie never presented it that way so how were the audience expected to connect the dots?

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:39 PM   #171
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

Read above post. I stopped caring. If you're dead set on still having this argument, just read my previous posts to yourself at your leisure.

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:45 PM   #172
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

You're too kind

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Old 05-07-2013, 01:58 PM   #173
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

Can we talk about how a running theme in the Nolan films is that Bruce Wayne is the worlds worst detective, now?

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Old 05-07-2013, 02:06 PM   #174
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

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Can we talk about how a running theme in the Nolan films is that Bruce Wayne is the worlds worst detective, now?
Ok, that one I never got. He did some CSI nonsense in TDK, but when IM3 does something similar people praise it.

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Old 05-07-2013, 02:40 PM   #175
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Default Re: Guy Pearce is Aldrich Killian

To be fair, the crime scene resconstruction in Iron Man 3 made sense. Even after a dozen viewings, I still have no damn idea how Wayne acquired fingerprints from a computer manipulation of a hole in a wall. And I like The Dark Knight; it is just that that scene gives me a headache,the same way the chase scenes does for some people.

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