Young Justice Cartoon - Part 5

[Webhead2006]

With the time jump we still don't know if the jump is going to last all season. Or if we get a jump back to the past.

[nygma619]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fan

Now he has Ask Greg Helpers answering some of the repeat questions, and these same people ***** because Greg himself didn't answer.

Wait? Those people ***** about those questions not being answered by Greg, when the moderators just type an answer that was previously recorded by Greg?

[Lencho01]

Originally Posted by nygma619

I hope Bart doesn't become a replacement for Wally. That would just be rubbing salt in to the wounds for me. Also common horse sense says that if he was going to voice Bart Allen than he would've been in this picture displaying the Generations of Flash's.
Sorry I just can't stand Bart Allen and hope he doesn't appear in this show at all.

I don't see why Bart would have to be in that pic considering that's a pic Wally owns.

[nygma619]

Originally Posted by Lencho01

I don't see why Bart would have to be in that pic considering that's a pic Wally owns.

I feel he would've appeared in that picture with the other "Flashes" if the idea was showing a generational picture.

[Lencho01]

Originally Posted by nygma619

I feel he would've appeared in that picture with the other "Flashes" if the idea was showing a generational picture.

Yeah, but that's a pic Wally had back in Season 1...

http://jerome-k-moore.deviantart.com/gallery/

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

YOUNG JUSTICE: FLASH FAMILY

WB Animation Character Design, YOUNG JUSTICE, The Flash, Kid Flash, and The Flash (Original). Pencil, Digital color.

This is another item that unintentionally wound up on "The Cutting Room Floor." Along with the "Little Wally" illustration previously posted [link] , this image was created as a wall photo for the West family home. Featured from left to right are the three "generations" of Flashes, including Barry Allen, Wally West, and Jay Garrick. The premise was that someone in the West family snapped a shot of the trio of speedsters all together out in public, and then the heroes were kind enough to autograph the photo for a young Wally West (The signatures would be a ploy to divert the suspicion of casual visitors to Wally's house).

I hoped to convey the individual personalities of each character in the "photo," with Wally being the obvious showboat, Barry the secure and nonchalant JLA hero, and Jay Garrick as the senior mentor, with a warm smile, and a corny wave.

***UPDATE - 10/15/11 - Keep your eyes peeled to the YJ show, because it turns out that this image may indeed make an appearance after all. I'm flattered that so many seem to dig it, even though it's obvious that the three Flashes aren't even really standing there together. Photoshop fake? LOL! I kid. I'm a kidder.

*** As with all my YOUNG JUSTICE character art, the style is set and approved by Mr. Phil Bourassa.
*** And, as always, the specific color selections are mine.

Characters are copyrighted and trademarked by DC Comics.

[Anubis]

It's just a picture dude.

[brainchild81]

In pro-wrestling terms, I marked the **** out when I saw Nightwing. I am extremely happy w/the time jump. When this series started I hated the fact that Dick was a kid again & I hated the dumbass "disappearing laugh". They nixed the laugh after a few episodes & now we have Nightwing w/a cool costume & no silly mullet or ponytail. I never liked Tim because I never liked the idea of Batman having another sidekick(especially after Todd getting blown up. Makes Batman seem irresponsible as hell), but I'm happy to see him here because we get Nightwing. Would like NW to sound a bit older though. I'm also very happy we're getting more of John & less of nutass Hal. I'm glad The Light had good taste. I hope to see the Roy & Kaldur questions answered & I hope to see more of Rocket. I'm black & I honestly see no problem with her. I liked Beetle a lot more on BTB&TB, but I can still tolerate him here. They should tone down the Spanglish tho. Great episode

[Gelc22]

Originally Posted by nygma619

I hope Bart doesn't become a replacement for Wally. That would just be rubbing salt in to the wounds for me. Also common horse sense says that if he was going to voice Bart Allen than he would've been in this picture displaying the Generations of Flash's.
Sorry I just can't stand Bart Allen and hope he doesn't appear in this show at all.

Oh, don't get me wrong. If I had to choose between Wally and Bart, I'd choose Wally every single time. Wally's always been my favorite DC character, but I've come to grips with the possibility that he's no longer a main character in YJ. Sure, he'll show up and and have an episode or so, but he most likely won't be involved like the previous season. I hope I'm wrong.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

There are way too many characters on this show. Its spread very thin.

Overall I agree. I was critical of the amount of cameos the show had which took away air time from the main cast in Season 1. This second season seems to have doubled that quality, for better or worse. It is a shame to see shows succumb to what I call "X-Itus"; the inability to choose a few characters and stick to them, instead seeking to infuse every single character who has ever existed in the franchise as if they were real people who needed work. X-Men shows and films have a problem with limiting cameos, and it is a shame to see other team shows struggle with that too.

Originally Posted by nygma619

Yeah but the rest of the world treats Conner like he's 22 years old.

There's also the fact that nobody can call themselves "Superman" while Kal is around, and there aren't too many other variations. Poor Conner would have to still go by "Superboy" at age 100 if Kal was still kicking at age 150 or something.

To be fair, Wally (and I assume Artemis by osmosis, I hope.) will get an episode centered around him in the midst of an alien invasion. I'm hoping that THAT episode is what brings them back into the fold (ala Shayera in JLU's Wake The Dead).

That is possible, although that also showcases the dilemma of the show imitating what "JLU" did, which was replace most of the characters audiences had grown to care for with dozens of spare characters no one asked for. The cynic in me fears that Bart Allen or some other teenager will just be inserted in his place and that'll be it.

It may be worth noting that while Nightwing, Zatanna, and Rocket are all still around, the only members of the actual cast who still get to go on missions and beat things up and Superboy and Miss Martian; by this point, anyone who feels they aren't the unchallenged stars of this series is in their own "denial".

To be fair, I'll hold judgement on it, until I see what the future holds for everyone's favorite obnoxious speedster and everyone's favorite snarky archer. For all we know the after taste could turn out great.

Out of 6 episode summaries, at best Kid-Flash and/or Artemis will show up in one. That's a pretty terrible ratio out of 20 episodes. Focus episodes are one thing, but without them being in regular episodes and getting small moments here and there like in Season 1, those focus episodes will have to play catch up and that rarely works out as well. "WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN" did that all the time; it would ignore Cyclops for 3-5 episodes and then throw out a focus episode to play catch up. The result was awkward, at best. Many times, one would go a handful of episodes before any X-Man besides Wolverine appeared. It disheartens me to see "YOUNG JUSTICE" risk falling into the same traps that doomed "W&TXM" - spamming out on cameos and sacrificing characterization for the plot.

The only positive to come out of Wally West being a guest character instead of one of the regular cast is it may improve his power level. You can't have one member of the cast on a team show always dominate in terms of power; otherwise it gets boring. That's often why speedsters tend to suck in team shows; can't outdo Superman or Batman or whatever. But as a guest character who only shows up, say, three times a season, Wally won't have that problem anymore. The question is of course whether one wants to sacrifice characterization for power level, and that's another Faustian bargain.

There was a metric ton of potential between Wally and Artemis, and the show chose to squander it in exchange for a buttload of spare characters and their storyline. I'm not saying the show can't or won't still be good, but certain sacrifices can't be undone.

I know that, it just doesn't help to have one of KF's traditions shoved in our faces when he himself is absent in the five year time skip.

True. I just hope the disappearance of Kid-Flash wasn't something ordered from DC Entertainment. After all, Wally West doesn't exist in the New 52. Barry does, and Bart does, but not West.

I would, okay the only ones I would put in it's league are Bruce/Andrea & John/Shayera (JL(U)), but one of the reasons I like it a little more than John/Shayera is that both Wally & Artemis were great characters before the relationship got started in Bereft. It took the relationship for John Stewart to become more interesting for the most part. But I honestly can't think of many others besides those two that would be better. Whether I like it more or not than Bruce/Andrea will depend on where it goes from here. But I have faith in Weisman that he can deliver.

Andrea Boumont from "MASK OF THE PHANTASM", really? While that was an incredible film which is still underrated, the relationship didn't go anywhere after the end credits - even when Phantasm had a cameo in "JLU" some time later. Interesting choice, at any rate. Besides Stewart/Shayera, I suppose if I had to come up with a relationship I liked, it'd be Terry/Dana from "BATMAN BEYOND", but I guess that one's a cheat since the current comic continues it.

This is assuming there is much of a relationship between Wally and Artemis this season. Even if it does, like I said, most of the meat of it has already happened off camera. They'd either be a boring kismet couple or ex's with axes to grind at this point.

I always felt as long as Artemis is honest with him there isn't any length they can't go for. Sure I can see a break up happen between then and now, but I could see them also coming to their senses. Also her going to Gotham Academy could've been subtle foreshadowing of her going to a better college with Wally. At least I think Weisman wouldn't put that in there just to give Dick a moment to show the audience when he figured out who Artemis really was.

Let's be reasonable; giving someone from the Batman family a moment at the expense of another character is pretty much the definition of their entire animated history from the last decade. Remember, Batman was DC's Wolverine before Marvel HAD Wolverine (or overused him). This benefits his sidekicks when they star in their own shows by osmosis.

The biggest hurdle for those two regardless of honesty is their polar opposite households. Virtually everyone in Artemis' family is a former, current, or apprehended criminal, while everyone in Wally's family is either a former, current, or potential superhero, or TV journalist. Artemis will always have something to redeem herself for as well as always have that temptation for the "family business", especially as Cheshire is around. In theory at least, Wally will know he's next in line to be the Flash.

In the comics, Wally has retired (or semi-retired) as Kid-Flash for a few reasons. Often times they had to do with him wanting to complete his education. Other times it was after the revelation that the "accident" that empowered him messed up his metabolism because unlike Barry, he was a child when exposed to it and his speed powers were slowly killing him every time he used them. In the comics, that was only cured when he was zapped by Anti-Monitor or some stuff.

In the comics, there was also a bit where Wally's father becomes an agent of the Manhunters and basically sells out his own son (and even his wife) out of bitter resentment of Wally's dismissal of them to be a superhero. Given how aliens are a theme in the series, I am curious if this bit could come up - I doubt it, but not 100%.

It would be hard to explain why either Wally or Artemis would give up being superheroes without something major happening. The series isn't the same without them as regulars.

Nah, your thinking of revenge Mr. Xanatos.

I just feel the show has paid an awful price just to give me another good dose of Nightwing. I mean, I DO like Nightwing, I like that Grayson grew up and this show will probably portray Nightwing as vitally important without having to demand all roads lead to him becoming Batman. But I didn't want to trade off the other characters just to get there.

Originally Posted by Gold Samurai

There's been alot of negative feedback directed at Greg Weisman on his site. He's even thinking about shutting down the website.

Yikes. I can believe it. The ASK GREG site got some craziness before now.

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fan

This is why fandoms can't have nice things.

I've been reading ASK GREG since it opened in 1997, and while there was always obnoxiousness, it's gotten way out of hand with the "Young Justice" fans. It's just the levels and levels of entitlement, the fact that they abuse the rules to no end, and ignore his pleas to be reasonable, check the archives and the questions already submitted.

Now he has Ask Greg Helpers answering some of the repeat questions, and these same people ***** because Greg himself didn't answer.

At this point, I would not blame him if he shut it down. You don't see an ASK BRUCE TIMM or an ASK JOSS WHEDON. For good reason. I hope it doesn't come to that, but... wow.

It would be a shame, but I wouldn't blame him. I occasionally skimmed that site for trivia and some of the sheer inanity of the responses there got insane. There were moments I felt like apologizing even though I'd never posted there. Unfortunately, the fan community is just a microcosm of any community, which will always include your very vocal crackpots.

Originally Posted by FinalAvalanche

Voice actor Jason Marsden, best known for voicing teenage characters, will make his debut in episode 6 of YJ:I "Bloodlines".

http://twitter.com/#!/JasonMarsden/s...38889843818497

He voiced the following DC Animation characters:

teenage Clark Kent in Superman: The Animated Series, as well as Gear in Static Shock, Firefly in The Batman, Red Star and Billy Numerous in Teen Titans, several minor characters in Batman: Gotham Knight (Cop/Doctor/Youth 2/Thomas Wayne/Doctor), and Paco and Speedy from Batman: The Brave and the Bold

Plus, he also worked with Weisman on "WITCH".

My bet is Bart Allen...who I hope isn't replacing Wally West on the show.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by cin0

I understand what you're saying with Kaldur, but what is about Robin? He seemed pretty comfortable around all of the girls from what I remember.

He did have some moments of awkwardness or hesitation with Zatanna and she had to take charge. Which is fine.

That is definitely something I worry about a lot with a series like this, but hopefully this doesn't turn out the same as JLU was. The characters looked to be better established and the relationships between them seem realistic as well. You have the older characters sort of guiding the younger ones and at the same time seeing from the younger characters' point of view. I was mad when the season started that Tim wasnt Tim and was instead Dick as Robin, and now it looks like Dick is teaching Tim not to be so passive and take charge.

Don't get me wrong; I have always liked Nightwing. I always liked the idea that much as Robin was a name that Grayson came up with which tied to his own past, Nightwing was also a name he chose on his own. The show alluded to it with the designs of the "Flying Graysons" on the Haley Circus posters in "PERFORMANCE".

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF...duction/63.jpg

I never liked when Grayson became Batman, because I never thought that was something he desired or aspired to be. Instead I'd have preferred it had Grayson become just as vital a hero in the DCU during that period without having to done the ears and cape. "YOUNG JUSTICE: INVASION" is at least giving me that; here Grayson's Nightwing and he's mentor now, but he's hardly as stern as Batman was with him. He's attained that balance. Trust me, Nightwing being there will always be a pro for me in accessing the "time skip".

I just didn't want to sacrifice Aqualad, Kid-Flash, and/or Artemis just to get that. And it is a shame that this show has apparently made that an either/or thing. But, Nightwing, Superboy, and Miss Martian are apparently the "money characters", so maybe this is just the production crew cutting to the meat in their preferences.

[Zant]

I would not worry about more characters and cameos Dread.X men Evo got better in season 2 and 3 with more characters,Spectacular Spiderman also got better in season 2.JLU is better than JL. Also Im pretty sure JLU went more cameo crazy than all the x men shows combined

[nygma619]

Originally Posted by Lencho01

Yeah, but that's a pic Wally had back in Season 1...

http://jerome-k-moore.deviantart.com/gallery/

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

I meant the picture of the voice actors portraying the Flash Legacy. Not the picture Jason Spisak is holding in his hand.

[Lone]

Love the time jump. I got my Nightwing wish so I hope it's permanent. Now that Cassie's on the show, I'm hoping she hooks up with Conner like in the old comics.

I miss Aqualad and Kid Flash though.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by Zant

I would not worry about more characters and cameos Dread.X men Evo got better in season 2 and 3 with more characters,Spectacular Spiderman also got better in season 2.JLU is better than JL. Also Im pretty sure JLU went more cameo crazy than all the x men shows combined

"X-MEN EVOLUTION" Season 2 for me was very hit or miss until the finale. It was not helped by the show not only deciding to flesh out the Brotherhood, but deciding to dump in a dozen spare X-Kids who all demanded airtime. Some, like Boom-Boom, got entire episodes. This was also at a time when the show's producers/writers hadn't gotten a handle on Spyke besides him being "the moral of the story kid" who always learned a lesson in his focus episodes. The fact that a couple of those students were removed from Season 3 and the show in no way felt their loss was a sign of overkill to me.

"SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN" didn't really add many new long term characters in it's second season. The most notable examples were Sha Shan and Mark Allan. There were new villains like Kraven, Mysterio, Silver Sable, Silvermane and so on, but I don't count new villains - every superhero show has them per season. Sure, the show embellished other supporting characters such as Liz Allen and Flash Thompson, but they'd been in Season 1 and that road was paved there.

The 90's "X-MEN" show did have a lot of cameos but it stuck firm to its core cast. "EVOLUTION" had a lot of cameos which were at times distracting. "W&TXM" was swallowed whole by them at times; Colossus was written out yet Squidboy got an entire episode to himself. Iceman was a cipher yet Gambit got two episodes. On and on it went. Of course there were more problems with that show than cameos, but the cameos didn't help.

"JLU" really did go overboard, I'll admit. Some 60 heroes added to the cast within one episode. Some of them got fleshed out (Green Arrow, Black Canary, Huntress, Vixen, Vigilante), others got one episode and faded into the background (Hawk & Dove, Wildcat, Booster Gold), and others just clogged battle sequences with spare bodies. The result? Flash sat out an entire season. Shayera came very close. Martian Manhunter was often stuck as mission control spouting exposition or obligatory lines for most of the time. Whatever little "thing" Batman may have had with Wonder Woman quickly fizzled out and went nowhere. The inclusion of Vixen, as well as Shayera's stalker, Hawkman, complicated a relationship Warhawk from the future claimed was inevitable. Superman fared the best of all I'd argue, if only because his villains were increasingly relied upon; Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Darkseid, and so on.

I would rather a show only have a few characters and handle them well with a lot of character focus and development, then have dozens of characters who exist only as stereotypes or bodies for action sequences. Watching episodes of "YOUNG JUSTICE" almost require as much paying attention to the checklist of people carted out for an appearance as it does paying attention to storyline a lot. And one major misstep I feel Season 2 of "YJ" has made is that it has told the audience that certain characters are interchangeable, and can be dumped without anyone missing them. Not ALL of them, but some of them. And having a character you followed for 26 episodes last season be reduced to guest status - at best - merely so the show can truck out a new cast of action figures can be a bitter pill to swallow. I mean, if I wanted that, I'd watch more Transformers stuff. After all, if the show feels it isn't worth investing in certain characters, why should I?

Yeah, the show handled Lagoon Boy, Beast Boy, Blue Beetle and Wonder Girl well enough. But they're not the same. They're not that half of the cast who have been dismissed without even a reference. And while I KNOW that half of the cast will return for at least one episode (each or total, who knows), it isn't the same as them being a part of the cast. It isn't the same as seeing them continue to develop. Instead we've been robbed of that so the show could introduce some new characters DC wants to sell comic books of. And while I know that's not what Weisman intended, that's the result.

Again, I do like that we've gotten what looks to be a solid Nightwing out of this, and Tim Drake's Robin. Grayson got to grow up and develop, AND remain a key fixture of the show. Of course he did; he's the original Robin, arguably the most popular character on the show next to Superboy, who also is still there. But traded away Kid-Flash and Artemis' development for that? A compromise too far, I feel. At least for the moment.

Originally Posted by Lone

I miss Aqualad and Kid Flash though.

Don't we all?

And Artemis; don't forget Artemis.

[nygma619]

Originally Posted by Dread

Out of 6 episode summaries, at best Kid-Flash and/or Artemis will show up in one. That's a pretty terrible ratio out of 20 episodes.

That's kind of a loose comparison, given that we don't know the other 15 episode summaries, much less 14 of their names.

Focus episodes are one thing, but without them being in regular episodes and getting small moments here and there like in Season 1, those focus episodes will have to play catch up and that rarely works out as well. "WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN" did that all the time; it would ignore Cyclops for 3-5 episodes and then throw out a focus episode to play catch up. The result was awkward, at best. Many times, one would go a handful of episodes before any X-Man besides Wolverine appeared. It disheartens me to see "YOUNG JUSTICE" risk falling into the same traps that doomed "W&TXM" - spamming out on cameos and sacrificing characterization for the plot.

Greg Weisman shows NEVER have a shortage on characterization.

There was a metric ton of potential between Wally and Artemis, and the show chose to squander it in exchange for a buttload of spare characters and their storyline. I'm not saying the show can't or won't still be good, but certain sacrifices can't be undone.

Again lets wait and see what comes of it, before dismissing this completely.

True. I just hope the disappearance of Kid-Flash wasn't something ordered from DC Entertainment. After all, Wally West doesn't exist in the New 52. Barry does, and Bart does, but not West.

Ugghhh, don't even get me started on that.

The order from Geoff Johns is to use what you need, according to Greg and Brandon.

Andrea Boumont from "MASK OF THE PHANTASM", really? While that was an incredible film which is still underrated, the relationship didn't go anywhere after the end credits

It didn't need to, the writing was on the wall for both of them, and IMO THIS relationship is the one that had the most impact on Bruce.

I suppose if I had to come up with a relationship I liked, it'd be Terry/Dana from "BATMAN BEYOND", but I guess that one's a cheat since the current comic continues it.

I thought Dana was poorly developed on Batman Beyond. Her character never seem to have anything past the facets of her one note as Terry's girlfriend who would occasionally nag him to death. I mean what else did we know about Dana that doesn't really have anything to do with her relationship with Terry? She often felt more like a plot point than a character sometimes.

They'd either be a boring kismet couple or ex's with axes to grind at this point.

Given that both of them are anything BUT boring as people, I don't believe that will be the case. To me Superboy x Ms. Martian came across as that even before they got together. Though Artemis has to be alive first.

Let's be reasonable; giving someone from the Batman family a moment at the expense of another character is pretty much the definition of their entire animated history from the last decade. Remember, Batman was DC's Wolverine before Marvel HAD Wolverine (or overused him). This benefits his sidekicks when they star in their own shows by osmosis.

Greg Weisman shows have more wit than that.

The biggest hurdle for those two regardless of honesty is their polar opposite households. Virtually everyone in Artemis' family is a former, current, or apprehended criminal, while everyone in Wally's family is either a former, current, or potential superhero, or TV journalist. Artemis will always have something to redeem herself for as well as always have that temptation for the "family business", especially as Cheshire is around. In theory at least, Wally will know he's next in line to be the Flash.

Given that Artemis has shown her determination to NOT let her families history define her, I can't see it having THAT much of an impact on her life with Wally, outside her family members getting involved.

In the comics, Wally has retired (or semi-retired) as Kid-Flash for a few reasons. Often times they had to do with him wanting to complete his education. Other times it was after the revelation that the "accident" that empowered him messed up his metabolism because unlike Barry, he was a child when exposed to it and his speed powers were slowly killing him every time he used them. In the comics, that was only cured when he was zapped by Anti-Monitor or some stuff.

In the comics, there was also a bit where Wally's father becomes an agent of the Manhunters and basically sells out his own son (and even his wife) out of bitter resentment of Wally's dismissal of them to be a superhero. Given how aliens are a theme in the series, I am curious if this bit could come up - I doubt it, but not 100%.

It would be hard to explain why either Wally or Artemis would give up being superheroes without something major happening. The series isn't the same without them as regulars.

There's also C.) Given Wally's extreme reaction to Artemis's "death" in Failsafe, I can see Wally losing his desire to keep doing the hero thing if something DID happen to her. Again, I'm hoping that's not the case.

Yikes. I can believe it. The ASK GREG site got some craziness before now.

It would be a shame, but I wouldn't blame him. I occasionally skimmed that site for trivia and some of the sheer inanity of the responses there got insane. There were moments I felt like apologizing even though I'd never posted there. Unfortunately, the fan community is just a microcosm of any community, which will always include your very vocal crackpots.

Once again, Greg hasn't said A THING regarding the time skip or people's reactions to it. Even though I don't know him personally, I'd like to think he's reasonable enough to know that there are always going to be a few nuts out there.

My bet is Bart Allen...who I hope isn't replacing Wally West on the show.

See my comment on the picture above.

[Lone]

I think someone brought up a few pages ago that maybe Wally is the new Flash and Barry died during the 5yr gap. I'd like this to be the case as well. Dick gets to be Nightwing, I don't think it's fair for Wally to still be Kid Flash.

[TheVileOne]

I think this is all part of why Avengers is the better show since it gives you the peripheral characters and has some characters come and go but its mainly focused on a core group over the course of its two seasons.

New season of Young Justice and we already have like a dozen new lead characters while half the original group has been gutted.

New season of Avengers and you get the Doctor/Doom and Fantastic Four experience as guest stars to help advance the current story.

[Charlie Boy]

Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet

Oh, classy.

And what do you mean by that?

It's a Tropic Thunder reference. Basically saying they went too far with Jamie's Spanglish.

[Primal Slayer]

This was a very nice introduction to WG, cant wait to get mroe moments like these

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Originally Posted by Charlie Boy

It's a Tropic Thunder reference. Basically saying they went too far with Jamie's Spanglish.

I got the reference and I agree about the Spanglish. I just didn't think those two meshed together, but whatever.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by nygma619

That's kind of a loose comparison, given that we don't know the other 15 episode summaries, much less 14 of their names.

Touche. Especially since I imagine the last bunch of those episodes may not air until next year, since a few of them are just starting to be animated.

The general gist, however, is that the show will naturally continue to be based out of Mt. Justice and be headlined by Grayson, Superboy, and Miss Martian alongside their new cast. Even if Artemis and Kid-Flash return in episode 6 permanently, that's still over 20% of the season without them. And that's being optimistic.

Greg Weisman shows NEVER have a shortage on characterization.

But are they the characters we want?

Again lets wait and see what comes of it, before dismissing this completely.

It is at the very least concerning. I fear in the zeal to avoid being predictable or play things safe, the reduction in long term characters is a compromise too far.

Ugghhh, don't even get me started on that.

The order from Geoff Johns is to use what you need, according to Greg and Brandon.

It really is amazing how Johns and those who run the "New 52" feel a character like Bart Allen who is Barry's grandson from the future is perfectly acceptable and understandable, but a cousin like Wally isn't. That's like if the X-Men universe were rebooted and the powers that be decided to keep Cable, while eliminating Havok. But, I digress.

Glad Greg & Brandon have some autonomy. Although constructing a universe vastly different from the one DC Comics has may not aid in renewals.

It didn't need to, the writing was on the wall for both of them, and IMO THIS relationship is the one that had the most impact on Bruce.

True. According to the continuity, it was only after losing Boumont that Wayne decided to settle fully into being Batman.

I thought Dana was poorly developed on Batman Beyond. Her character never seem to have anything past the facets of her one note as Terry's girlfriend who would occasionally nag him to death. I mean what else did we know about Dana that doesn't really have anything to do with her relationship with Terry? She often felt more like a plot point than a character sometimes.

Like I said, it was a cheat because it's continuing in the BATMAN BEYOND comic DC is selling. "EPILOGUE" also saw it reach a conclusion.

Given that both of them are anything BUT boring as people, I don't believe that will be the case. To me Superboy x Ms. Martian came across as that even before they got together. Though Artemis has to be alive first.

The thing is, I imagine Superboy and Megan will STILL get in a lot of wangst and emotional baggage even without them being a couple anymore.

I would be vastly irritated if Artemis became a woman in a refrigerator. That would tick me off more than Aqualad turning evil.

Greg Weisman shows have more wit than that.

Usually. Having something called THE HELMET OF FATE tell you who to date is very on the nose, though.

Given that Artemis has shown her determination to NOT let her families history define her, I can't see it having THAT much of an impact on her life with Wally, outside her family members getting involved.

In fairness, her family's involvement complicated roughly half the first season.

There's also C.) Given Wally's extreme reaction to Artemis's "death" in Failsafe, I can see Wally losing his desire to keep doing the hero thing if something DID happen to her. Again, I'm hoping that's not the case.

Agreed.

Once again, Greg hasn't said A THING regarding the time skip or people's reactions to it. Even though I don't know him personally, I'd like to think he's reasonable enough to know that there are always going to be a few nuts out there.

There's a difference between expecting a few nuts versus receiving a nut avalanche.

Originally Posted by Lone

I think someone brought up a few pages ago that maybe Wally is the new Flash and Barry died during the 5yr gap. I'd like this to be the case as well. Dick gets to be Nightwing, I don't think it's fair for Wally to still be Kid Flash.

It is possible that Wally has become the new Flash. However, that's a transition that, much like his relationship with Artemis, benefits the most from seeing it happen live. It took Wally a very long time to escape Barry's shadow to both his peers and himself. Glossing over that to just go, "Okay, boom, he's Flash now" would be very "whelming".

It would be a good thing to showcase; Wally retiring for some reason and coming out of retirement because something happened to Barry and now he HAS to assume the mantle. However, I frankly don't believe this show has the stones to do that.

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

I think this is all part of why Avengers is the better show since it gives you the peripheral characters and has some characters come and go but its mainly focused on a core group over the course of its two season.

New season of Young Justice and we already have like a dozen new lead characters while half the original group has been gutted.

New season of Avengers and you get the Doctor/Doom and Fantastic Four experience as guest stars to help advance the current story.

I do agree; while the dialogue is usually better in "YJ" and the tone darker, "A:EMH" has usually been more satisfying to me, while still having a dense serial storyline and some clever writing.

Alas, it's second season has the scourge of Loeb coming to it midway through.

[Lone]

Originally Posted by Dread

It is possible that Wally has become the new Flash. However, that's a transition that, much like his relationship with Artemis, benefits the most from seeing it happen live. It took Wally a very long time to escape Barry's shadow to both his peers and himself. Glossing over that to just go, "Okay, boom, he's Flash now" would be very "whelming".

It would be a good thing to showcase; Wally retiring for some reason and coming out of retirement because something happened to Barry and now he HAS to assume the mantle. However, I frankly don't believe this show has the stones to do that.

I didn't really care for Artemis, so...

They didn't show how Dick overcomes his struggles and ends up being Nightwing either but it doesn't bother me. I can understand that being a problem with viewers unfamiliar with the history of the DCU.

There will be a Flash-centric episode, right? I hope all the answers we seek regarding Wally will be explained then.

[TheVileOne]

Thundercats is also better than Young Justice .

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Thundercats is also better than Young Justice .

Alright, now you're just hardcore trolling. Off with you.

[Hound55]

I'd get a kick out of it if Wally was the JL Flash now and that Barry died in some horrific way, followed by Dr Light raping the corpse... all with some civilian they name Geoff who is a crude caricature of Geoff Johns looking on in horror...

I know I won't get that... but I'd enjoy seeing it.